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Can we talk about the picture on the last page of this week's Chronicle?

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  • Can we talk about the picture on the last page of this week's Chronicle?

    I didn't see a thread on this yet and I thought it would be an interesting discussion.

    On page 62 of this week's Chronicle, there is a picture of a rider jumping a horse in draw reins. The title of the piece is "Is There A Place For Draw Reins In The Show Ring?" and it consists of three famous riders (Anne Kursinski, Norman Dello Joio, and Markus Beerbaum) answering the question.

    I don't think the issue is specifically that of the "evils" of draw reins, though that is certainly part of it, but rather, whether you should be showing in them.

    Personally, I think draw reins have their uses. I'm not even against jumping in draw reins, though I do think they should be run through a martingale or breastplate to prevent any accidents. But draw reins in the show ring? What would the point of that be? And how safe would they be in say, a jump off situation?

    ETA: Forgot to add that the picture is from a HITS show. Apparently draw reins are currently allowed in low level jumpers. So the question isn't really a hypothetical one.

    ETA Again: http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...eins-show-ring
    Last edited by SaturdayNightLive; Mar. 30, 2011, 12:48 PM.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris

  • #2
    draw reins in the show ring? really?

    Comment


    • #3
      Uh...

      No.
      Author Page
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      Comment


      • #4
        Jeeze, we eventers can't even use draw reins at all on the competition grounds! That's crazy!

        What is the benefit of jumping in draw reins?

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not a draw reins hater—they have their place and I've jumped with them on more than one occasion (always hooked to a yoke, never the girth)—but I do agree that the photo in question is certainly a dangerous application.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have a jumper mare who refuses to break at the poll unless she is in draw reins. She fights a martingale (standard and running) and has gone through maybe 20 different bits. I school her in draw reins both on the flat and over fences (run through a breastplate) and she is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Mostly because without them, she just throws her head like a fool the whole time around the arena, except when she is about 2 strides out of a jump. She is still green as far as the big jumpers go, and I wont keep her in draws over fences forever, but for now, they serve a purpose, and if they are hooked up and used properly, I dont see why they shouldnt be allowed in the lower level jumpers. Unfortunately though, the lower level jumpers tend to bring out a lot of people who think the point of jumpers is to run around like an idiot as fast as you can, and those are also the people who wouldnt be educated enough to hack in draw reins, let alone jump in them, so I would be worried that all in all, it would cause more harm than good.

            As far as I know, and like stated above, in the lower levels, they are legal, but I dont know the level at which they become illegal. I dont think I would personally show in them in anything other than the schooling jumpers, since that's exactly what that division is for, SCHOOLING jumpers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AliO View Post
              I have a jumper mare who refuses to break at the poll unless she is in draw reins. She fights a martingale (standard and running) and has gone through maybe 20 different bits. I school her in draw reins both on the flat and over fences (run through a breastplate) and she is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Mostly because without them, she just throws her head like a fool the whole time around the arena, except when she is about 2 strides out of a jump. She is still green as far as the big jumpers go, and I wont keep her in draws over fences forever, but for now, they serve a purpose, and if they are hooked up and used properly, I dont see why they shouldnt be allowed in the lower level jumpers. Unfortunately though, the lower level jumpers tend to bring out a lot of people who think the point of jumpers is to run around like an idiot as fast as you can, and those are also the people who wouldnt be educated enough to hack in draw reins, let alone jump in them, so I would be worried that all in all, it would cause more harm than good.

              As far as I know, and like stated above, in the lower levels, they are legal, but I dont know the level at which they become illegal. I dont think I would personally show in them in anything other than the schooling jumpers, since that's exactly what that division is for, SCHOOLING jumpers.
              Why do you go with draw reins over a german? (just curious, I would think it would do the same thing).

              Comment


              • #8
                You can show in them in classes of any height offering less than $1000, same as german martingales. Standings you can use to $5000.
                You used to be able to use them in classes that offered more money, I forget what the cut-off was then, but I showed a junior jumper in draw reins to the chest in all but the classics.
                I haven't seen the picture, but I assume from the comments that the draw reins are to the belly? I prefer those run through a yoke to jump, but many people don't find it necessary. Most probably wouldn't show with them to the belly in anything other than a schooling class where they were just going to canter around, though.
                Last edited by CBoylen; Mar. 22, 2011, 06:22 PM. Reason: Fixed info

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jumper_girl221 View Post
                  Why do you go with draw reins over a german? (just curious, I would think it would do the same thing).
                  I dont own a german martingale, so that probably has a lot to do with it, lol. That said though, I like the draw reins because I have total control of where she is and when she is staying soft, I can loosen them up, but in an "Oh Sh*t" moment I can get her back really easily. Shes one that likes to run through your hands and ignore you until you put a wall infront of her... Shes also my potential grand prix prospect. Need I say it... wish me luck? lol.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AliO View Post
                    I dont own a german martingale, so that probably has a lot to do with it, lol. That said though, I like the draw reins because I have total control of where she is and when she is staying soft, I can loosen them up, but in an "Oh Sh*t" moment I can get her back really easily. Shes one that likes to run through your hands and ignore you until you put a wall infront of her... Shes also my potential grand prix prospect. Need I say it... wish me luck? lol.
                    Don't feel bad... I have photos of doing baby-XC (think it was our first time out ever) in draws for the same reason. A german martingale is super useful, although not quite as adjustable.

                    We ended up in a Pelham for XC... my mare is *NOT* a GP prospect, and therefore a wee bit easier to contain in the longer term...
                    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So call me a traditionalist, but I vote NO. Draw reins have their place at home ON THE FLAT but most people who use them (and most other gadgets IMHO) don't know how to use them properly.

                      I've seen a picture of a fine rider (no one any of you know) jumping in draw reins NOT through the yoke or clipped to the bp, with the horse's face well behind the vertical over a 4'6" fence. What they think they're teaching that horse is beyond me, because it certainly isn't free to use itself properly over a fence.

                      And to AliO, no offence intended, but maybe your mare is trying to tell you she doesn't really want to be a jumper. From your description it doesn't sound like she's enjoying it much.
                      ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                      Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                      "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just because an elite level rider and Olympic veteran says they have their place does not mean it's an approval for you to slap them on whatever you are riding or an overall endorsement.

                        They have their place, even over fences. And most serious competitive riders in any discipline find they do help at the proper time in the proper circumstances in the proper hands.

                        COTH is for serious competitive riders. It is not an entry level publication and merely presented this piece to illustrate something serious competitive riders may or may not want to include in their "tool box".

                        If you do not care for then that's fine and your choice. BUT, you may want to keep them in the back of your mind in case you ever get one that would benefit from their appropriate use -never say never because you really never know what you may be dealing with in the future.

                        I certainly would never presume to look down at these particular riders because they do use them when appropriate and are willing to share that.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          A link to the original article here: http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...eins-show-ring
                          Last edited by SaturdayNightLive; Mar. 30, 2011, 12:49 PM. Reason: Found the original, didn't need to paraphrase anymore. ;)
                          "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                          -George Morris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, not so sure AK has NEVER used them at all, they were certainly in the barn she started at when appropriate, maybe when she was not around but can attest to the fact he did use them later in the evenings...and NDJ said "generally", not never ever.
                            Beerbaum was probably the most honest and least worried about how his statement would be perceived.

                            Again, not a beginner magazine and proably should have the disclaimer "don't try this at home". But there is a time and a place and it's not always a shortcut in the hands of a monkey.

                            Most of us never recommend them on here to unknowns though because they can be just that.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Okay, I am a purist.

                              I think people should learn to RIDE BETTER!

                              I wonder who this person's trainer/instructor is!

                              Instead of dumbing things down, I think we should make things harder. How about offering prize money for jumping without stirrups? Even a national championships. Now who wouldn't want to be No Stirrup Jumping National Champion?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
                                Now who wouldn't want to be No Stirrup Jumping National Champion?
                                Um...a 55 year old rider preparing 17h 1.45m+ Jumpers for the big bucks of GP and potential International competition????

                                Not saying alot use them that shouldn't or for the wrong reasons (with a wrong result) but, really, not everbody who chooses them is a bad rider or lacking in talent. Far as I am concerned Marcus Beerbaum has earned the right to use whatever he wants and does not need to ride better. He can also have his advanced students in them schooling type classes to solve some problems even a great rider cannot solve without some help. Flatwork only goes so far when faced with a triple combination to open water with a roll back to a vertical at 1.45m+, sometimes that flatwork needs a back up to prep for that kind of thing.

                                If you ask me on here though, I'll say leave them in the tack room. Unless you are Marcus Beerbaum or similar level talent.

                                Somehow it sounds like the rider pictured was not. Glad it was not me taking these pot shots. But, then again it wouldnlt be as I do not care for them in normal circumstances and ride Hunters.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I was always taught training aids were for schooling at home.

                                  That's what draw reins are - TRAINING AIDS - you shouldn't still be training, if you're in the show ring. Your horse green, or not, should be schooled enough that you can safely and sanely take him out in public and compete in your chosen discipline.

                                  I haven't used draw reins in years, I prefer a german martingale, and even then, it's only used when needed, and ONLY on the flat.

                                  I wouldn't dream of jumping in draw reins, even through the breastplate, that's not what they're for. (at least how I was taught). There's too much of a risk of getting hung up, and I'm not going to put myself or my horse at that risk.

                                  COTH should probably print a disclaimer in the next issue letting those who read it, and aren't serious competitors, that that picture does portray a potential hazard and that they should consult their trainers before use.
                                  Friend of bar.ka!
                                  Originally posted by MHM
                                  GM quote of the day, regarding the correct way to do things:
                                  "There's correct, and then there's correct. If you're almost correct, that means you're wrong."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I personally would never even think about taking them in a schooling class...heck, I think I may use them twice a year, if that, at home. I saw the article in COTH, and as others posted, there were several things to make you go in that picture besides the draw reins.

                                    That aside, I watched Patty Hueckeroth do her schooling trip in them at Warrenton last year, then come out of the ring, have her assistant remove them, and go back in the ring to do her 2 trips. I remember she won at least one of the classes, if not both.
                                    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think draw reins have their place as a training tool, but I think many people overuse them. I do not think that under any circumstance you should be using them when you're showing.

                                      I have ridden my green horse in draw reins three times and it has been very helpful for him learning how to carry himself. They're not something I will use every ride though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by AliO View Post
                                        I dont own a german martingale, so that probably has a lot to do with it, lol. That said though, I like the draw reins because I have total control of where she is and when she is staying soft, I can loosen them up, but in an "Oh Sh*t" moment I can get her back really easily. Shes one that likes to run through your hands and ignore you until you put a wall infront of her... Shes also my potential grand prix prospect. Need I say it... wish me luck? lol.
                                        Well, hopefully you can learn to jump her without draws soon....she'll never be able to do a GP otherwise

                                        Comment

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