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Pricing help for the 15hh jumper?

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  • Pricing help for the 15hh jumper?

    I'll try to give just enough details to help price the horse, but not enough for this to become an ad. I tried looking through various websites to find similar horses, but didn't seem to come up with much.

    Horse is a turning 10 year old welsh cob cross, but is only 15hh, quick and not for a beginner, all of which I believe will make her harder to sell and make her worth less.

    But, she's very talented. She's been jumping 4'6 oxers (I have video of this if it helps) and she could go higher. She has a big stride and has dressage basics. She's schooled cross country fences up to 3'3. She has only shown in local schooling shows and hunter paces.

    Hopefully that is enough information. What sort of price range would be appropriate for this horse? Even if its just a general range, that would be very helpful!
    Last edited by Clever Pony; Mar. 4, 2011, 09:13 AM.

  • #2
    You didn't mention her age, which would be the first thing I would look for in order to guesstimate a sale price.

    If she is resonably young (ie under 10), and genuinely has a big stride and is BOLD, you might have a market in the A/O jumpers for a junior jumper or small adult who likes a smaller horse. Without a big stride this horse would be too difficult for the average amateur since combinations at the 4'3"-4'6" level would be very tough.

    The pro rider would generally not be looking at all due to her size, since generally every one I know has all of their horses (even their personal mounts) for sale at any time "for the right price" and resale of a small horse is more complicated than that of a larger one because of a more restricted market.

    She would be a hard sell to most juniors that I know on the Florida circuits showing equitation because they generally like larger horses who make the stride easily and stand out in the flat, and quick is definitly a turn off (at least in the manner that I interpret it, which is handy but jumper all the way).

    Eventers tend to not care so much about the height, but they like experience and show miles.

    In my opinion, I would market her toward the low A/O jumpers if she has the skill and would put her (say she is 10) at the $20,000 - $25,000 mark depending on where you are located and contingent on the fact that she can jump combinations at that height without much trouble.
    If you wanted to market toward eventing....without any event experience but schooling of cross country and hunter paces you might fit at $8,000-10,000 again depending on her age, boldness, and how good her dressage really is.


    • Original Poster

      She's turning 10 this spring. When I say she's quick, I mean she's a forward type horse, which would scare a beginner rider. Saying that, she has a great "whoa" and will stop even from a gallop with just the word and a bit of rein.

      I am in Canada, which does make things a bit more difficult, I'm sure.

      The 4'6 height is a bit new to her, so she has not worked up to combinations at that height yet, but given a bit of work, I do believe she would be able to do them.

      I don't have any interest in showing her to get her price up, but just would like to sell her "as is", simply because I don't have the time, money, or skill to be marketing her at that level. I know this would greatly affect her price, but I'd like to know what she is worth right now.

      Thank you for your advice Stoney447, I found that very useful!

      Would she be better marketed towards an eventer? Or does she have a place in the jumper ring?


      • #4
        What heights of courses has she done? A lot of horses can jump a big jump, but that doesn't always mean they can do a whole course of it.
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        • Original Poster

          She's gone up to about 3'3 - 3'6 courses.


          • #6
            Then she's marketable as a Children's/Adult Jumper with possible potential for more, so I'd say $7500 to $15k unless she has a serious show record.


            • #7
              I hate to be the naysayer here, but a 10yo 15h horse who is too forward for kids to ride and has no show record to speak of then I would say you would be lucky to get $5K. JMHO. As someone else said, jumping one big fence doesn't mean they have the scope, stride, and confidence to do a whole course.

              She sounds like a fun and talented mare, but I think the event crowd might be a better market. It doesn't hurt to advertise and market to both, but it will take a very specific buyer to take this one. Good luck!
              Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved. - William Jennings Bryan



              • #8
                OP I am in a similar situation with a pony jumper. Super duper pony but is a bit forward and needs an advanced rider. We aren't actively marketing him right now due to it being winter but when we were we were asking $4500 for him. He is very quiet and has absolutely no spook so we are considering marketing him at that price to eventers this Spring. However, he has not jumped the height that your horse has but he has a ton of potential to.

                There is an As Di Villagana gelding showing in the big classes in Germany right now...he is only 15.2.
                Here he is:

                That is just to show you that there are little horses out there doing the big stuff and I'm sure their price range is not a small one. I specifically remember people at shows yelling out to Cinzano's rider saying "Nice little horse you got there!" and he blew them out of the water when they saw him jump.


                • #9
                  The big issue would be if the horse can answer the questions in the combinations. You say she has a big stride. How big?

                  I'd certainly add this question and answer to the sales video. And not through a chute...with a rider, and hopefully at 3'6".


                  • #10
                    I do think little horses can jump the big jumps and go for good prices, but to be worth a lot they have to prove themselves by doing the job. Few are willing to take the chance unless they see it for themselves. If the horse is jumping 4'6 courses, then you might get more...but if it is jumping 3'3-3'6 courses, you are going to get Children's/Adult Jumper prices for it. At best because it is little.


                    • Original Poster

                      buschkn, I don't just want to hear that people think she's worth $10k if she's not. I'd rather get an accurate pricing for her so I don't have to hold onto her for a year trying to sell her. I'd like to have her sold in a few months. So I appreciate your honesty.

                      I have seen her pack around a beginner a few years ago over small x's. She's very simple over jumps and stops easily, but has a forward stride. She'd be just fine with an intermediate rider. She is one of the most bombproof horses I've met.

                      She's been jumping on a normal 12ft stride, which is at least normal in Canada. I'd think she could open up to 13ft if someone chose to work on that. Granted, this is all hypothetical and I'll be honest about that. In my opinion, she's not your average 15h horse. If you just saw pictures and videos of her, you'd swear she is at least 16hh and I do not feel her stride is any different than that of a horse of that height. She takes up leg extraordinary well as she has a large barrel, so she does not need a tiny rider and is very capable of taking around normal sized riders if that makes a difference. (one of her current riders is 5'11 and doesn't look that big on her)

                      I do believe she has the talent to do 4'6 courses, but, as I've said before, I need to know what her price is currently. Having potential to do something and doing something are obviously not the same thing as actually being able to currently do it and I realize her price will reflect that. I know I am not talented enough, to be honest, to take her around 4'6 courses so I've reached my limit with her currently.

                      Is she better marketed as an eventer? What would her price be for that market?

                      I'd love further honest opinions about her! This is very helpful!


                      • #12
                        I had a winning 1.10 jumper a few years ago that sold for only $12,000 as a 12 year old and was 15-3. Sadly, the market for smaller horses, even though they may have a huge stride just isn't what you may want it to be and I LOVE a small horse with that big stride!

                        Yes, yours is younger than mine was, but she just hasn't proven herself in the show ring yet and that WILL keep buyers away if you price too high. You may think she has all the potential in the world, but jumping a few fences at 4ft6 doesn't mean she can make it around a full course of that height. The width and striding between combinations becomes a HUGE issue and they have to really have a huge amount of scope to make it over those size fences.

                        Market her as a 3ft3 jumper and price her accordingly (in Alberta that means in the $10,000 to $15,000 range and that's for horses WITH a proven record). Meanwhile take her to some shows, put on a really good catch rider if you have to and try to start getting people to notice her. If you can move her up in height! There's nothing I hate more than seeing ad's saying "jumps 4ft3" and then seeing them cantering over a maybe 3ft fence!

                        Good luck, it's hard selling these days!
                        Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clever Pony View Post
                          Horse is a turning 10 year old welsh cob cross, but is only 15hh, quick and not for a beginner, all of which I believe will make her harder to sell and make her worth less.

                          She has only shown in local schooling shows and hunter paces.
                          Even if she's scopey out the wazoo, there simply are not a lot of experienced riders who will drop a lot of change on a 10 year old, 15 hh cross-bred who has only shown at a very low level. A rider capable of bringing a horse up to that height and level of difficulty can get a very well bred youngster for about 10K. That is just not the niche I can see easily marketing your mare to.

                          If you showcase the skills she has - she's a fun, forward, bombproof horse that would suit an adult re-rider with some intermediate skills, with the potential to event/show and kick some butt - there seem to be a fair amount of people looking for a nice little horse like that. What do people pay for horses like that in your region? Here they would run between a free lease and $5Kish. Bear in mind, my opinion is only worth the amount you are paying for it.


                          • #14
                            I am primarily an eventer, and while forward/small/female are probably less of an issue for us than for jumpers, we tend to be very cheap about prospects that have not yet evented. For a small 10 yo with no record, I would say 3-6K to the pony club market, if she is good on the flat (ready to make it through a dressage test) and can demonstrate willingness with banks/water/ditches etc. Less if either of those are missing.

                            If she hasn't yet shown at 3'6 I would not worry about the A/O jumpers market yet and probably focus on Ch/Ad. If you have video and can show she jumps a 3'6 course (in other words, is ready to do Ch/Ad now), I think you could probably get more from jumpers than eventers (maybe 1.5x the above range?)

                            FWIW, I have found that most of my event horses, successful or not, were worth more as 3'6 jumpers than as novice - prelim eventers, despite the more limited skill set required.

                            ETA: I think you are making a smart move to sell as-is in this case. You could invest a lot in training/showing and still struggle to find the right match for her size/personality, so I think you shouldn't feel pressure to build a record to try to get a little more $, as you'd have to invest a lot to put on a really profitable record.


                            • #15
                              CP- We sold my Paint mare that was showing in NE Florida. She was sold to a friend of ours that is also on COTH (we actually traded horses).

                              Anyway, she was about 15.0 and 10 and was at an A barn. My husband is 6'2"ish and was about 155 pounds and did Low/Hi ChAd jumpers with her. They almost always won.

                              Even with a pretty well-known trainer in the area and her winning, she was a VERY hard sell. I think we had her for sale for 18 months, actively selling her and almost no interest.

                              She was hot, but could turn on a dime. I am a "perma-ammy" and I couldn't hardly hack her, let alone jump her. When we traded, both owners agreed that our horses were both worth about $5k.

                              I think if she has some more show miles on her, I'd start at $7500 and accept down to $5k. The crappy part is that you're also working against the economy. Schoolmasters are going for less than $5.

                              Horses that you can only market to a select few are always hard to sell (as I am sure you already know), but now WAY hard to sell.

                              As far as the eventing way to go... I dunno... That is probably a quesrtion best left to the gurus over in the eventing forum... My mare was traded so she could be a foxhunter, but no dice. She was TERRIBLE (and her owner "has her colors"). Thankfully, my friend has about four million connetions and she was sold to a really nice barn outside Orlando. The owner/trainer of the barn bought her to be her personal horse. The owner of the Orlando barn is 5'2" if I remember correctly.

                              Connections like that, when they happen, ROCK. But, as you know, are few and far between.

                              All of that to say. Start at $7500. If you aren't in a hurry, give it a shot at $10k, but I really wouldn't go for more than that.

                              Good luck! Moving horses is not easy right now, no matter what you have.

                              p.s. If you want any more details or would like to talk to the COTHer that I sold/traded her to, I'm sure she'd be okay with emailing you. I don't know what she ended up selling my mare for, I was just happy that she had a great home!
                              Steppin Not Dragon "Bella"
                              Top Shelf "Charlie"
                              Check out the Military + Horses fb page!


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Beam Me Up View Post
                                If she hasn't yet shown at 3'6 I would not worry about the A/O jumpers market yet and probably focus on Ch/Ad. If you have video and can show she jumps a 3'6 course (in other words, is ready to do Ch/Ad now), I think you could probably get more from jumpers than eventers (maybe 1.5x the above range?)
                                To me, now that we have a bit more information about your horse, it will come down to your time table. If you want to sell her right now, as is, to the Ch/Ad people, you probably won't get much money for her. Pretty much any horse that can jump safely, can't make it in the hunters, and is an athletic breed is being aimed toward this market (at least here in the States). This level of jumper rider would also be looking for a show record before they will put out the big bucks, so as was stated earlier by others I would look to $7,500 at this level.

                                Now with that said, being from the higher A/O realm myself, I would be less concerned about a show record and more into seeing courses jumped at the height that I want to show at. If you can demonstrate a course, at home, at 4'3" or even just 4' someone like me may very much be interested. The A/O crowd would pay more in the realm of the $20-25K I quoted earlier. A horse at that age with a show record in the A/O would put us much higher in price, so some people might be willing to take a risk on an un-shown horse for this lower price if it has demonstrated the required skill set.

                                However, if you want to sell her now and she cannot demonstrate the higher course, I would evaluate how good her dressage is. My eventing friends buy horses based off of two things....the dressage score that they can get, and Boldness. Anything else they claim they can work with (and they can work with the boldness they just choose not to...I certainly cant blame em). Since dressage, especially at the low levels can make or break your event, it is very important to them. If she can dressage well, it might help a bit on her price and you may be able to get $8-10k at least in the very eventy mid-west where my friends are located.


                                • #17
                                  How big is her step?

                                  I sold exactly what you're describing (except with an extra inch at 15.1h)....hot, difficult to ride, small, 10yo, mare, etc., showing at 3'6" at shows, and with the potential to do the 4'6"+. Her greatest attribute was that she had a massive stride.....she routinely left out strides without rushing much and had an easier time with lines than my bigger horses, in fact. And I recently sold her for $25K.

                                  But doing single fences at 4'6" is a far cry from coursing at 4'6" (which I'm sure you already know), so unless you really think or really know that the mare has the scope to put together a full course of big jumps I would expect that claim to be met with skepticism. People seem to have a tough time believing that little horses can jump as big as big horses, let alone that they'll have the step to make it around a course and, more importantly, through combinations which can be set long in the big classes.
                                  Flying F Sport Horses
                                  Horses in the NW


                                  • #18
                                    Like the majority of other posters here, I overestimated the market in Canada when I moved home from the US. I had a fabulous resale project who was fancy, drop dead gorgeous, great jump, bold, solid flatwork, jumping 3'3", with heaps of potential as an eq/jump/eventer. He was the ideal age/height of 7/16.2 hh. He had a good show record at sanctioned events and a couple jumper shows, but nothing super extensive. I did not consider him 'hot,' but he was nicely forward. Very controllable, IMO. In the US market he would have sold very quickly; however, the CAN market is much, much different. Everyone wants a push-button horse for cheap and the majority of riders are incapable of riding a more forward horse (I was SHOCKED at how many people had trouble with my resale). They are amateur types. I actually had to start screening people who wanted to come see him! He sold (to the US, for what it's worth) for under 10K. I had several friends who said they could have sold him for more, but the commission and the chance of having him down there too long to make profit wasn't worth the risk to me.

                                    A friend of mine bought a 15hh, 5 year old, well bred Welsh/TB mare with excellent movement and jump, great conformation, ideal temperament, but no show experience. She's not hot and although green, is a very easy and straightforward ride. She jumps anything you point her at. The girl who rides her is a 13 year old who is a good rider, but inexperienced. The mare is the perfect balance of amateur friendly, but fancy with lots of potential. They bought the mare for less than 5K.

                                    Both horses mentioned had zero physical issues and flew through their PPEs with flying colours.

                                    Point being, most these posters are WAY overpricing this horse for the Canadian market. I would price her at 6-7K and take what you can get.

                                    I am also mainly an eventer and should say that eventers tend to fetch a pretty cheap price here in Canada, even with significant experience. If a horse is only capable of going lower levels, they better be amateur friendly or they are fairly worthless in price.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Stoney447 View Post
                                      My eventing friends buy horses based off of two things....the dressage score that they can get, and Boldness. Anything else they claim they can work with (and they can work with the boldness they just choose not to...I certainly cant blame em). Since dressage, especially at the low levels can make or break your event, it is very important to them.
                                      Right on target.


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by *Trinity* View Post
                                        Point being, most these posters are WAY overpricing this horse for the Canadian market. I would price her at 6-7K and take what you can get.
                                        I totally agree with this statement. Unfortunatly, I can only speak to what I know and that is the American....specifically Florida market, which, along with the Northeast and southern to mid California is not as much of a buyers market as the rest of North America.

                                        To that point, I admit that whenever I go horse shopping I do call my friends north of the border because I am much more apt to get a great deal on a very nice horse in Canada then I am in America. I picked up a very nice jumper prospect with impeccable breeding at 5 years old, branded Dutch about 5 years ago for $6,000. He is now going FEI with an adult amateur re-rider this show year in dressage.

                                        If you can market to the USA, then you might be able to find the prices that people on this board have commented on, but since we don't usually sell to Canada I don't really keep up with the trends in price up there. Although, I probably should have known based on my past experience buying up there. Good luck! I really hope that you can find your girl a nice show home and at least get a respectable price for your seemingly very capable horse.