• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Calming a Hunter- Depo, Easy Hunter, etc.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    Originally posted by stfatpony View Post
    Not legal. Don't assume - go online and look. Not trying to be nasty, but make sure you check out with USEF what is legal and what is not. Don't go by what people say on the internet.
    This was regarding vitamin B-1.

    As vitamin B-1 only affects behavior in horses who were deficient to begin with, it is not going to have any performance enhancing effect if given to the rest of the horses.

    It is in many of the complete vitamins and is possibly in some feeds as part of that vitamin mix.

    I am addressing it being fed as a supplement, not being injected, although I've never heard of B1 being injected.

    So, go ahead and contact USEF D&M Committee. I daresay it has been asked, and it is not illegal to feed vitamin B1.

    Comment


    • #82
      I couldn't agree more! The safety of our staff is very important as is the well being of the horse. A sedated, good experience is far better than an non-sedated bad experience all the way around. Do you remember when the vets did not sedate and how horses were manhandled for treatments and procedures? 25 years ago, I remember having my horse tied down into a treatment stock to have his teeth floated and how horribly he struggled. I would much rather have a horse sedated and standing quietly than brutally restrained.

      Originally posted by lauriep View Post
      Hold it. Drugging a horse to body clip it, or do anything else on the ground that it may vehemently object to has nothing AT ALL to do with the topic of drugs and showing. There isn't ANYTHING wrong with using some Dormosedan to body clip a horse. I don't intend to get hurt clipping a baby who might kill me with a well-aimed hoof.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by CBoylen View Post
        One of the worst things to happen for the welfare of the horse in this sport were the drug rules.
        Riiiight. (Not.)
        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

        Comment


        • #84
          Reality Check 2008

          Let's be real... if it's not going to be one thing.. it's gonna be another. SO perhaps now is the time to dismount off of our high-horses and have a severe reality check.

          I agree with the person that mentioned that allowing a CC or 2 of Ace would probably improve today's circumstances rather than make them worse. I'm sad that we live in a world where that's not the case. We allow golf carts and motorized bikes to clog our showgrounds... yet making this whole awkward show situation a bit more livable and tolerable for our animals is ILLEGAL. Figure that one out!

          Personally, I think if they allowed a cc or 2 of Ace to be legal... we'd see less of the crap we see now. Snake venom injections, hours of lunging, horses dropping dead of strokes & heart attacks due to dehydration from water being taken away for days on end... I could go on for days.

          It's the reality of the big show world... so don't kid yourself. I'm sure it happens on a smaller extent at the local level... but go to any big show... and whether or not YOU are aware... I would guarantee that half of you that are squawking about what your horse does naturally... isn't truly the case. You are just kept out of the "circle of trust". Those sharps boxes are there for SPECIFIC reasons.. not as a precautionary method or a regulation. Walk by any of them.. and you can see the "shadow" of how full some of the boxes are and the reality that those boxes are used daily... not rarely.

          I groomed for years as a junior and PERSONALLY know what goes on during the "late hours" and the "early hours" when the owners and weekend warriors are "out to dinner" or "still in bed". There are many (and you would be SHOCKED HOW MANY) that believe that what the owner/leasor/student doesn't know... and what won't "test" per se... won't kill them. So there you are... thinking you're going around au natural... with your horse that was given muscle relaxers so that Mr. Pony/Horsey got a good night's rest. OR your horse that you think comes out fresh... too bad he started his lunging at midnight and was put away at 330am bc it was common knowledge that you were expected to arrive at 415am. That's the LEAST that will happen.. and you can shake your head and say "not my horse" or "not my trainer"... but I've sat there smirking on more than one occasion as I've looked down at blisters from lunging horses as their owner/rider bragged to anyone that would listen about how her horse requires "no prep".

          I encourage all of you that are so high and mighty to spend some time at your horse show tent... go back and do night check yourself... take a peek in your horses feed tub at the show and notice whether or not there's some interesting powder residue at the bottom... or perhaps a weird "wet spot" on their neck. It's the same as buying a horse... if someone has a call time for you at 415... one day, just randomly show up at 330. OR.. just continue to pull a Ray Charles... assume all is well.. and turn a blind eye. It's your choice. I hope you find a sleeping horse and quiet barn every time... but me thinks that won't always be the case.

          BUT REALLY... if a CC or 2 was legal of ACE... many of us wouldn't be retiring horses early... having animals have weird spasms and issues that not vet can "explain"... and probably would have safer and more comfortable animals. Part of our world is about the safety of our animals... the other half is about the safety of our riders. Horse show spaces are getting overcrowded and the demand is greater. In a perfect world, we'd all have docile and cooperative animals... but then again, would we all keep riding if that was the case? Nevertheless, I'd prefer a horse show full of horses on a cc or 2 of ACE... compared to one with a bunch of 'raring to go' wild horses that could potentially cause a show ring debacle. Sure, it's sometimes fun at home to deal with a fresh one... it's another thing to have 25 in a small schooling area with one that won't stop bolting, bucking, and rearing. Recipe for disaster, folks.

          The same people you worship on this board... are also some of the worst offenders. So it's time to realize that what seems like perfection.. is often an altered reality. Again, I'm not encouraging SEVERE DOPING or any illegal usage for that matter... I'm merely saying that there are specific drugs within legal limits that serve a significant purpose and shouldn't be snubbed in the sake of "keeping things au natural". Safety and Health are important moreover than "the win"... but my main priority is to make sure my partner in the game is comfortable. I know that taking him/her into unnatural surroundings such as horse shows may require special treatment... and I feel it's my responsibility to ensure their comfort and support them since it's my butt they'll be carting around for the next 5 days.

          Another way of looking at it:

          Imagine if your boss told you that Advil, Aleve, Excedrin, and Pamprin were all illegal at the workplace bc they were concerned that some of the side effects could make you less productive... would you want to sit in your office for 8 hours and work effectively while having migraines, cramps, stomach attacks, etc? Probably not. The fact of the matter is that we're not prancing these animals around a show ring like in a parade.. we're demanding them to be in an unnatural scenario for an extended period of time... with a VERY SHORT amount of turnout with a small area, at best. Then we're taking them out and asking them to assist us in pilotting around a demanding course of jumps set specifically to challenge both horse and rider. This is asking ALOT of anyone.. human or equine. I don't say "dope them til the drop"... but if I can alleviate my beloved horse's discomfort in the interest of making them a better partner in the show ring within a legal standpoint. Then so be it. AMEN.

          Comment


          • #85
            I've never drugged my horse, and we win. He's quiet because I don't feed him POUNDS MORE CONCENTRATE THAN HE NEEDS.

            He's a fricken hunter, not a **** eventer. He canters four courses of 3'3 jumps, get bathed, poulticed and snugged down into beddy-bye. He gets a quarter scoop or less of Complete Feed, and TONS of hay. If it's a long show, he gradually gets more as the demand gets more tiring.

            All the time I see people moan about how hot their horses are, bring out the Quietex, bring out the Depo, bring out the lungeline, and then for dinner they give them the normal three scoops of grain plus sweet feed and beet pulp. Your horses don't need all that! It's like me eating a pasta dinner and five Energy bars and a Redbull and some Rock Candy and trying to leisurely jog a mile without feeling like I want to scream and leap around and giggle like an idiot.

            It frustrates me. I understand that jumpers and hunters need good nutrition, but good nutrition can come from good-quality hay-- energy can come from alfalfa. If your jumper or hunter is too hot for you to control, CUT BACK ON HIS FEED. Don't just drug him, it's not doing ANYTHING for you in the long run.

            I dunno, that's just my opinion.... maybe I've just had great horses!
            "Disapproval of the way other people run their businesses and treat their horses is the meat and drink of the hunter-jumper industry."
            Working Student Blog
            Current Blog

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Tini Sea Soldier View Post
              .. but I've sat there smirking on more than one occasion
              It's not that I don't know that such attitudes are, unfortunately for the sport, fairly common; it just jars even my cynicism that it is stated with such pride.
              Nina's Story
              Epona Comm on FB

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Tini Sea Soldier View Post


                So there you are... thinking you're going around au natural... with your horse that was given muscle relaxers so that Mr. Pony/Horsey got a good night's rest.
                I know what kind of a night my horse had.
                I'm often sleeping in the tack stall next door to him.


                BUT REALLY... if a CC or 2 was legal of ACE... many of us wouldn't be retiring horses early... having animals have weird spasms and issues that not vet can "explain"... and probably would have safer and more comfortable animals.
                If we had more horsemen and fewer riders, we'd have people who realized that what is often the norm these days for a show horse is, despite all the money being thrown at them, far from optimum horse management.
                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by BarbB View Post
                  It's not that I don't know that such attitudes are, unfortunately for the sport, fairly common; it just jars even my cynicism that it is stated with such pride.

                  well said, Ray Charles... enjoy your glass house.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    I find it very disheartening to read the support for drugging horses to quiet them, and the defense is that it is better than LTD (lunge to death).

                    Also, when doing comparisons, compare NSAIDS to NSAIDS and tranquilizers to tranquilizers. So, don't compare ace to aspirin. Compare it to valium. If you want to compare common OTC human NSAIDS (Non steroidal anti inflamatories) to those used in horses, do so. Muscle relaxers are another class of drug.

                    It is vastly different to give the horse a gram of bute after a hard day, than it is to have him on dex to make him quiet. If the horse truly does have allergies, then certainly, file a D&M report and use it, but if you are filing a D&M to lie that the horse needs dex because of allergies, then you are cheating. I do not care how many other people do it and I do not believe that it makes it good.

                    I don't follow the show-circuit. I go to a handful of rated shows, that are local, and a bunch of local shows and have yet to require any tranquilizer for my own horses. In fact, once, I allowed a very, nervous rider to give my horse one cc of ace, for a trail ride, so not a legal issue, and she realized he was DEAD from that.

                    I have known of a horse or two who learns to deal with new situations with a little bit of ace, but in every case, the owner uses it in situations that are not illegal.

                    Just about the time I think it would be fun to show in the hunters, a thread like this pops up and makes me reconsider.
                    Last edited by SaddleFitterVA; Mar. 23, 2008, 12:33 AM. Reason: spelling

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      I can not believe all the support drugging horses is getting and I also can not believe that the attitude is that those of us that are so against drugging are either a) in denial or b) don't go to the big shows. I can gaurantee you that I am not in denial. My horse does not get drugged or touched by my trainers because guess what I keep my horses at home, ship to lessons and look after my own horse at the horse shows and my trainer would not touch my horse without asking me first.

                      And yes I do show at the big shows, I know what goes on and that still does not make me think it is right. It is illegal. I have to ask if all of you that think drugging horses, although illegal, is okay think that it is okay for humans to use illegal drugs, cheat in sports and cheat at school. Cheating is cheating and just because you believe that everyone else is doing something does not make it right. If everyone was jumping off a bridge would you follow?

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by gortmore View Post
                        I can not believe all the support drugging horses is getting and I also can not believe that the attitude is that those of us that are so against drugging are either a) in denial or b) don't go to the big shows. I can gaurantee you that I am not in denial. My horse does not get drugged or touched by my trainers because guess what I keep my horses at home, ship to lessons and look after my own horse at the horse shows and my trainer would not touch my horse without asking me first.

                        And yes I do show at the big shows, I know what goes on and that still does not make me think it is right. It is illegal. I have to ask if all of you that think drugging horses, although illegal, is okay think that it is okay for humans to use illegal drugs, cheat in sports and cheat at school. Cheating is cheating and just because you believe that everyone else is doing something does not make it right. If everyone was jumping off a bridge would you follow?
                        You are the exception, not the rule. I would bet you could count on your two hands the number of OWNERS at WEF who keep their horses at home and CARE FOR THEM THEMSELVES with no trainer input. Just doesn't happen.

                        The argument isn't to do something illegal, as the rules stand today. The argument is that the rules are not necessarily helping to do what they intend, to keep horses safer and healthier. I don't think Tini Sea Soldier meant to be smug, but she IS 100% correct in that the VAST majority of owners/riders on the AA circuit haven't a clue what it takes to get their horse to the ring. She is also correct in the after hours workings of a big show barn. Do you REALLY think these things are done when you are around to see it???

                        And folks, it isn't going to change. The horse show world is a different animal now, and I am very sad to say, not for the better, but it isn't going back. Wealth and greed have taken over. Riders don't want their horses to pull on them and are perfectly content to let the trainer "fix" that problem. And not know how it was fixed. And we are crippling horses as fast as we can because of all the work, mostly longeing by people who haven't a clue how to do it properly, and also by the unknown effects of the next untestable drug on the horizon.

                        I understand that many of you, and I would too, are competent enough to ride through your horses' issues until quiet, and to manage their care. But you are a teeny, tiny, minority (at the top levels). So, I remain steadfast in my belief that a little Ace is the SAFEST way to accomplish the necessary goal of having a quiet horse that Mrs. Gotrocks can ride.

                        But, it isn't legal due to the omnipotence of the Fed. So, now what?
                        Laurie

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          I can appreciate the honesty of Lauriep and Sea Soldier. I really don't have an opinion one way or another. But a trainer put out a scenerio to me once when having this conversation and I thought it was interesting. For a child, pony gets to horseshow and is particularly up (for whatever reason). Child is scared and situation is deemed unsafe and confidence crusher by trainer. Do you A, advise child no horseshow for you today?, or do you B, give pony 1/2cc Ace (advising parents of this) and let everyone have a good day? Now keep in mind this is for a child not a junior or adult. What do you'all think? I do have an opinion on advising rider and/or parent that horse is aced. Seems like not telling them would be a potential liability issue to me.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by Flash44 View Post
                            I was going to suggest jumpers!!! The cure for the sport is jumpers. No one will have to buy a $$$$$$$$$$$$$ warmblood, and we can all have a blast going fast and not knocking down poles. The little whoopsie doodles won't matter, the artificial unatural dead quiet brilliant jumping style will no longer be rewarded (or sought at any price).
                            Little naive here, don't ya think? You think Jumpers are some kind of drug and abuse free zone where there are no pricey WBs whipping the competition?? Where do you think some of these "won't test" concoctions du jour come from?

                            Honestly, I rarely participate in these threads and OP seems to have this agenda when s/he starts a thread...that and the screen name. But couldn't resist that one.

                            And, yeah, this is a little broad.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Nikki17 View Post
                              I can appreciate the honesty of Lauriep and Sea Soldier. I really don't have an opinion one way or another. But a trainer put out a scenerio to me once when having this conversation and I thought it was interesting. For a child, pony gets to horseshow and is particularly up (for whatever reason). Child is scared and situation is deemed unsafe and confidence crusher by trainer. Do you A, advise child no horseshow for you today?, or do you B, give pony 1/2cc Ace (advising parents of this) and let everyone have a good day? Now keep in mind this is for a child not a junior or adult. What do you'all think? I do have an opinion on advising rider and/or parent that horse is aced. Seems like not telling them would be a potential liability issue to me.
                              If it was my child I would say no horseshow for you today - I learned to ride on all kinds of hot horses without the use of chemicals and that is how I expect my kid to learn to ride and if she can't then she doesn't show. She is currently riding a rather hot little mare who has good days and bad. Her greatest satisfaction at a show is getting a good round out of this pony. She doesn't really expect to win but hopes to get a good round. Actually, if she was scared I would think the kid wasn't ready to be at a show at all. Come on, what is a kid doing showing that is afraid to ride a pony that is "up" - seems to me the kid is being rushed. I think that is a big problem today too - the rush to get kids showing and pursuing ribbons before they can really ride and control their ponies.
                              And don't call me naive - I was around back in the day and saw the horses being lunged at all hours at Devon and I knew what other people were doing. We just never resorted to that. You took the ride you got on a particular day and were happy with it. And the days when all the pieces fell into place and you got that perfect ride out of your difficult horse were worth more than all the drug enhanced blue ribbons in the world. JMHO
                              This whole thread makes me sad. Just because everyone is drugging and calming their horses doesn't make it right. Justify it all you want - you know you are wrong. People are always looking for shortcuts, but the key to success is just to learn how to ride and that takes years and patience and talent that some people will just never have.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by lcw579 View Post
                                If it was my child I would say no horseshow for you today - I learned to ride on all kinds of hot horses without the use of chemicals and that is how I expect my kid to learn to ride and if she can't then she doesn't show. She is currently riding a rather hot little mare who has good days and bad. Her greatest satisfaction at a show is getting a good round out of this pony. She doesn't really expect to win but hopes to get a good round. Actually, if she was scared I would think the kid wasn't ready to be at a show at all. Come on, what is a kid doing showing that is afraid to ride a pony that is "up" - seems to me the kid is being rushed. I think that is a big problem today too - the rush to get kids showing and pursuing ribbons before they can really ride and control their ponies.
                                And don't call me naive - I was around back in the day and saw the horses being lunged at all hours at Devon and I knew what other people were doing. We just never resorted to that. You took the ride you got on a particular day and were happy with it. And the days when all the pieces fell into place and you got that perfect ride out of your difficult horse were worth more than all the drug enhanced blue ribbons in the world. JMHO
                                This whole thread makes me sad. Just because everyone is drugging and calming their horses doesn't make it right. Justify it all you want - you know you are wrong. People are always looking for shortcuts, but the key to success is just to learn how to ride and that takes years and patience and talent that some people will just never have.
                                Ouch! but DITTO! I sure could not have said it better myself.
                                What are we teaching the kid when we tell them that "if it doesn't behave the way you like, just drug it"?
                                scarey

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by BarbB View Post
                                  The key is LEGAL vs ILLEGAL. How do you (generic you, not just this poster) get to chose which rules you will obey and which ones you won't?
                                  You know, it's "legal" to stack damn near every NSAID except bute and banamine, an it's "legal" to give insane amounts of dex, and it's "legal" to lunge a horse for 45 minutes every day it shows. It's not like "legal" necessarily sets you any higher on the moral platform for purposes of this discussion.

                                  Would I prefer a world where people didn't prep their horses in some of the ways I see? Absolutely. But if I accept that there are serious problems in the system and there always will be, maybe ace is the lesser of all evils. It's certainly less evil than the legal dex and LTD. But it's not an easy subject to come to terms with and I can easily see the other argument as well. And to be fair, I do think if ace was legal, people would still be looking for another edge if only because it is human nature to look for something better, otherwise your options would still be bute, bute or bute in the NSAID arena. But these arguments would probably take place in a public forum instead of in the back aisle by the trainer's drug box.

                                  And I have to admit the people that heap scorn something like ace, but are forever looking for some OTC herbal concoction to do the trick are near the height of hypocrisy. Let's face it, they are just looking for the exact same benefit, only they'd like it to have a fairly transparent and false moral cloak around it. Oh yea, and it would be nice if it didn't test.
                                  Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by lauriep View Post
                                    You are the exception, not the rule. I would bet you could count on your two hands the number of OWNERS at WEF who keep their horses at home and CARE FOR THEM THEMSELVES with no trainer input. Just doesn't happen.

                                    The argument isn't to do something illegal, as the rules stand today. The argument is that the rules are not necessarily helping to do what they intend, to keep horses safer and healthier. I don't think Tini Sea Soldier meant to be smug, but she IS 100% correct in that the VAST majority of owners/riders on the AA circuit haven't a clue what it takes to get their horse to the ring. She is also correct in the after hours workings of a big show barn. Do you REALLY think these things are done when you are around to see it??? (snip)
                                    I guess I am another exception, and don't disagree that many owners haven't a clue how their horses are prepared at the big shows. But I think there might be more of us out here than some people think. I'd guess we are not the HOTY winners; a lot of us don't show every weekend or live in BNT barns. But we don't all play at the lower levels either - some of us do WEF and the other big circuits, and hold our own.

                                    My horse lives in a boarding (not show) barn in CT ... he lives 1000 miles away from my trainer, who is based in FL. Part of the reason that I arrange things this way is because I know what goes on in big show programs, having worked in them ... and because a big part of the joy of having a horse for me is taking care of them.

                                    I know exactly what my horse's program is, because I design and implement it. I am at the barn every day; I am the one rubbing on that horse, riding him in all sorts of conditions, and taking care of him afterwards. I know how much he is drinking, I know the "normal" condition of his stall; I know how much and what he eats and what his habits are when he's turned out. I know when he is comfortable and when something isn't quite right.

                                    When we show, I meet up with one of two trainers, and while I appreciate the care their grooms provide (feeding, mucking, setting jumps at the ring) they do NOT "prep" my horse or alter the program in any way. Even if I did not do my own night check - and I have missed only ONE in all the years of showing I've done - I would KNOW if something else had been done, because I know the horse, inside and out. I buy mine as young horses, mostly 3-4 year olds, and while I get plenty of help with lessons and training... I know them very well because I raise them.

                                    Because my horse is well schooled and is naturally quite laid back, he doesn't *require* anything extraordinary to get to the ring. He knows his job and does it well - I can assure you that any screw ups that occur are entirely related to pilot error. If you longed that horse, there wouldn't be big enough spurs to get him down the lines.

                                    Because of that, perhaps it is easy for me to say that using Dex to make a horse quiet is cheating. The rules clearly SAY it is cheating... but a lot of people seem to feel that since it is allowed for another (therapeutic) purpose, and thus will "test" within allowed limits... that is must be OK.

                                    I don't agree.
                                    **********
                                    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                    -PaulaEdwina

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by DMK View Post
                                      It's not like "legal" necessarily sets you any higher on the moral platform for purposes of this discussion.
                                      Not claiming higher moral ground. I am well aware that many things that are legal are abusive. Just saying that participation in a "sport" is voluntary, you know the rules going in, what gives some people the right to ignore the rules they don't like?

                                      This is probably based on my general disgust with 'special' people in all walks of life who feel entitled to do whatever they please; rules, laws and other participants can take a flying leap.

                                      Never mind, carry on. Keep your sharps container handy.
                                      Nina's Story
                                      Epona Comm on FB

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        I got soooo fed up with the BNT/BO drugging my horse behind my back that I bought my own place! Now all I do is take my horses everywhere and let them deal with the show, or new barn environment, on thier own. No drugs, no prep, no lunging.

                                        They are supplemented if they need it, biotin for feet, Recovery Eq for the working horses, free choice salt, and good hay.

                                        If your horse needs to be drugged then it needs a new job...its not a hunter...

                                        OH and regardign showing in Ace, I've seen horses on 1/4cc of ace and I would NEVER want to ride something that dull and unstable nevermind showing it over 3'6 fences!!! IMO that is a death wish for you and your horse....
                                        Last edited by Carrera; Mar. 23, 2008, 12:12 PM.
                                        www.simplicityweimaraners.ca

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by DMK View Post
                                          And I have to admit the people that heap scorn something like ace, but are forever looking for some OTC herbal concoction to do the trick are near the height of hypocrisy. Let's face it, they are just looking for the exact same benefit, only they'd like it to have a fairly transparent and false moral cloak around it. Oh yea, and it would be nice if it didn't test.
                                          AMEN
                                          **********
                                          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                          -PaulaEdwina

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X