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Calming a Hunter- Depo, Easy Hunter, etc.

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  • Originally posted by flshgordon View Post
    Lovely
    How is that lovely?!?

    Tell me your story and why you are so qualified to tell everyone what they should or shouldnt be doing?! I am not saying i am but everyone has their own opinions and you should not be telling people what to believe in.
    P=N
    If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
      I dont show to get a blue ribbon. No i dont expect ppl to say its ok. I dont understand why you are acting like im giving him an illegal amount and got tested and got away with it. That is not the case. I have had a pony tested before and had no problem. And they do call it a LEGAL minimum dosage for a reason. If it was so illegal then there wouldnt be a dosage that isnt tested. Or they would have tests that go back even farther on days. I dont use Dex, now i have used it before and the minimum amount, and then i had other trainers saying how much they used on their horse and it was 3x the amount. Now that is very much violating the rules. But its not like i said oh if they can do it then i can too and upped my dosage. No way. I have shown for 20 years, and i have never asked a horse to do more then he can handle. My horse and I have won some big shows but there are still some shows where he is very scared. So how can you tell me he doesnt belong on the show ring.
      ANYTHING you give a horse to make them go quieter is against the rules. You won't get caught, but it is still illegal - read the rule book. And nobody said your horse doesn't belong in the show ring, they just said you were cheating. And you are. But like I said, give your horse whatever you want. It isn't like cheating is a big deal or anything.
      "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
      -George Morris

      Comment


      • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
        I dont show to get a blue ribbon. No i dont expect ppl to say its ok. I dont understand why you are acting like im giving him an illegal amount and got tested and got away with it. That is not the case. I have had a pony tested before and had no problem. And they do call it a LEGAL minimum dosage for a reason. If it was so illegal then there wouldnt be a dosage that isnt tested. Or they would have tests that go back even farther on days. I dont use Dex, now i have used it before and the minimum amount, and then i had other trainers saying how much they used on their horse and it was 3x the amount. Now that is very much violating the rules. But its not like i said oh if they can do it then i can too and upped my dosage. No way. I have shown for 20 years, and i have never asked a horse to do more then he can handle. My horse and I have won some big shows but there are still some shows where he is very scared. So how can you tell me he doesnt belong on the show ring.
        You are absolutely 100 percent missing the point of what everyone is saying to you. It is only LEGAL for its INTENDED purpose. Check the label on your bottle of Dex, it doesn't say "Intended Use: To calm a horses show nerves"

        My vets have only ever prescribed Dex for my horse when he has had hideous allergic reactions to things. Once it was really close to a competition and guess what I withdrew.

        I generally don't post on these sorts of threads, but his made me sick to my stomach.

        Comment


        • Actually about a few times they have said my horse doesnt belong in the show ring. But i dont see how its fair to show against those who have enough money to have their professional show in the professional division and then show in their divisions every horse show. Of course your horse is goiong to be kick quiet by then, jumping 6-8 courses and atleast schooling twice. But i guess its ok to pound your horse into the ground, cause that will keep their career longer than giving then something. Oh might i add most of the time they are not jut being ridden into the ground but also on something.
          P=N
          If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by KSevnter View Post
            You are absolutely 100 percent missing the point of what everyone is saying to you. It is only LEGAL for its INTENDED purpose. Check the label on your bottle of Dex, it doesn't say "Intended Use: To calm a horses show nerves"

            My vets have only ever prescribed Dex for my horse when he has had hideous allergic reactions to things. Once it was really close to a competition and guess what I withdrew.

            I generally don't post on these sorts of threads, but his made me sick to my stomach.
            I said i dont use dex. Find out what other people use, the ones not posting, and that will make you sick to your stomach.
            P=N
            If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
              Actually about a few times they have said my horse doesnt belong in the show ring. But i dont see how its fair to show against those who have enough money to have their professional show in the professional division and then show in their divisions every horse show.
              "I should be allowed to drug because the other riders have more money than me!" That is seriously the best argument for drugging I have ever heard. Way to be.
              "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
              -George Morris

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
                "I should be allowed to drug because the other riders have more money than me!" That is seriously the best argument for drugging I have ever heard. Way to be.
                You are totally missing the point. I would rather give my horse something to have him relax than to POUND him into the ground. You agree with that? EVen if i had money i would not pound my horse into the ground! Im saying if i had a 6 yr old instead of showing him in 2 3'6 divisions and pounding him into the ground which is career will be shot by 10 i believe it is better to give something to relax your horse before a show, show one division and be done. No lunging for and hour, no schooling for 2 hours, but i guess that is ok in some peoples' eyes.

                Dont get me wrong there are many many drugs out there that i do not agree with. My horse does not get dex, he gets B-1 before a show, and sometimes bute afterwords so he is not sore the next day. My mare gets Adequan (sp) and thats about it, and she doesnt even show. But im sure that someone will have a problem with that too.
                P=N
                If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
                  Im not changing my mind. My horse needs what he gets and if he breaks down then i will admit im wrong. But considering i did the same thing with my mare who did the 4' jumpers at the age of 4 with Debbie Stephens and other grand prix riders and she is now 19 and can jump around a 3' jumper course. Then i musta did something right.
                  You don't have to change your mind, but just a little food for thought. Perhaps that horse is still going at 19 in spite of your actions instead because of them.

                  My 19 y/o is still happily jumping 4' (and would be competing at the intermediate level if I had the time) after doing his first CCI* with me 13 years ago. He completed 11 seasons at the upper levels happy and sound because I didn't run his legs off. All he ever got to keep him going was adequan and legend joint injections 2xs per year. Fortunately, he is not the exception to the rule in any horse sport. I know Phillip Dutton's Gold Medal winner was 21 and happily competing at Intermediate a few years ago.

                  The point of competition is to bring your best on any given day and to do so honestly is the only way to do it. Manipulating rules in order to get an "edge" doesn't do anyone any good.

                  Simply put, you are not putting your horse's needs first and therefore are not a horseman/woman at all.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KSevnter View Post
                    You don't have to change your mind, but just a little food for thought. Perhaps that horse is still going at 19 in spite of your actions instead because of them.

                    My 19 y/o is still happily jumping 4' (and would be competing at the intermediate level if I had the time) after doing his first CCI* with me 13 years ago. He completed 11 seasons at the upper levels happy and sound because I didn't run his legs off. All he ever got to keep him going was adequan and legend joint injections 2xs per year. Fortunately, he is not the exception to the rule in any horse sport. I know Phillip Dutton's Gold Medal winner was 21 and happily competing at Intermediate a few years ago.

                    The point of competition is to bring your best on any given day and to do so honestly is the only way to do it. Manipulating rules in order to get an "edge" doesn't do anyone any good.

                    Simply put, you are not putting your horse's needs first and therefore are not a horseman/woman at all.

                    I said all my 19 year mare gets is only Adequan and u just said your horse gets that. So how am i not a horseman/woman?
                    P=N
                    If you run out of patience, you run out of nice.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
                      I said all my 19 year mare gets is only Adequan and u just said your horse gets that. So how am i not a horseman/woman?
                      Because you drug your show horse in order to get him around. Proper training and riding is time consuming, I know, but last time I checked it was the whole point of the sport. Except for blue ribbons of course - those are way more important than anything else.
                      "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                      -George Morris

                      Comment


                      • Well, then maybe I am just confused because reading your post on the page 13 it certainly didn't sound like you were talking about Adequan injections. I doubt anyone would give glucosamine or hyaluronic acid to take the edge off

                        So I guess we don't disagree at all? See that is why I should stay off these threads.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
                          You are totally missing the point. I would rather give my horse something to have him relax than to POUND him into the ground. You agree with that? EVen if i had money i would not pound my horse into the ground! Im saying if i had a 6 yr old instead of showing him in 2 3'6 divisions and pounding him into the ground which is career will be shot by 10 i believe it is better to give something to relax your horse before a show, show one division and be done. No lunging for and hour, no schooling for 2 hours, but i guess that is ok in some peoples' eyes.

                          Dont get me wrong there are many many drugs out there that i do not agree with. My horse does not get dex, he gets B-1 before a show, and sometimes bute afterwords so he is not sore the next day. My mare gets Adequan (sp) and thats about it, and she doesnt even show. But im sure that someone will have a problem with that too.

                          How is jumping and showing a 4 year old in the 4 fts not riding them into the ground then? I think thats what I find repulsive. I don't care if shes 19 and still jumping 3ft...there's a reason the YJC start at age 5...and MUCH lower then 4 ft.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
                            Im saying if i had a 6 yr old instead of showing him in 2 3'6 divisions and pounding him into the ground which is career will be shot by 10 i believe it is better to give something to relax your horse before a show, show one division and be done. No lunging for and hour, no schooling for 2 hours, but i guess that is ok in some peoples' eyes.
                            my question is- does the horse really *need* something to relax to get around that one division? (not being snarky- just wondering- if you typically show in a pretty relaxed way, does the horse actually need "help" or is it just the established routine? have you tried going without? just curious)
                            "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                            My CANTER blog.

                            Comment


                            • But i dont see how its fair to show against those who have enough money to have their professional show in the professional division and then show in their divisions every horse show.
                              *PREPARE* your horse, and it won't be an issue. It may never be a perfectly level playing field, but if you've done your homework, I fail to see why money comes into play.
                              ---
                              They're small hearts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trv_at_tacf View Post
                                You are totally missing the point. I would rather give my horse something to have him relax than to POUND him into the ground. You agree with that?
                                I guess the real point here is that, as many have already said, those aren't the only options for the horse. Meds are just that, meds. They shouldn't be necessary step on the road to a horse show ribbon.

                                Something to remember in the "drugging vs. longing in the best interest of the horse" argument is that it's not like foals think to themselves that one day they'll be successful show horses, no matter what it takes to get them there. My guess is that they'd be just a teensy bit happier napping in a field all day rather than spending days waiting for a shot or a longe line that preceeds their 2 minutes of glory.
                                "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                Comment


                                • Well gosh golly gee whiz, pollyanna, guess what? I show today. I don't break the rules, I don't see a need to calm down my OTTB even if he does occasionally do a happy head shake, manage to restrain from using depo, dex, LTD or anything illegal, and I too do my share of winning. Doesn't mean I'm foolish enough to think there isn't a Bridalbridle or two in my classes using the rule to the 100% percent even a minority dancing on the other side of the rule, so what makes you think your era was just so gosh darn special?
                                  You totally missed the point. I was referring back to YOUR comment that "40 years ago ALL hunters were helped and went on Ace".

                                  Remember this comment of yours:

                                  "A long, long time ago" they showed on Ace. Hunters have ALWAYS been enhanced, even 40 years ago when you ran and jumped.
                                  Well - guess what. Mine didnt. So what accomplishments I got then were done 100% "on our own". Maybe some others did. Maybe 99% of the others did. I dont know and I dont care to be honest. I got my wins on my own

                                  Why does it have to be any different today???
                                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                  Comment


                                  • TC, Lauriep made that point, not DMK.

                                    And out of curiosity, are you positive none of your horses has never been stuck with anything before a show? Not even depo for a mare?
                                    "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                    Comment


                                    • Sometimes I wonder what the blood level of alcohol to keystrokes ratio is?




                                      chugga chugga chugga

                                      Comment


                                      • Mar. 27, 2008, 08:07 AM
                                        DMK
                                        remain.com
                                        Premium Member Join Date: May. 17, 2000
                                        Location: Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
                                        Posts: 18,280



                                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                        Quote:
                                        Originally Posted by TrueColours
                                        Sorry. I disagree 100%. When *I* showed in the hunters 30 years ago I did my share of winning and I never stuck my horses with anything. They went on their own and I dealt with whatever they decided to dish up in that particular class?

                                        Well gosh golly gee whiz, pollyanna, guess what? I show today. I don't break the rules, I don't see a need to calm down my OTTB even if he does occasionally do a happy head shake, manage to restrain from using depo, dex, LTD or anything illegal, and I too do my share of winning. Doesn't mean I'm foolish enough to think there isn't a Bridalbridle or two in my classes using the rule to the 100% percent even a minority dancing on the other side of the rule, so what makes you think your era was just so gosh darn special?
                                        Nope. It was DMK ...

                                        And out of curiosity, are you positive none of your horses has never been stuck with anything before a show? Not even depo for a mare?
                                        Ah ... nope again. They were with me in a boarding barn and I met the trainer at a show or simply showed on my own and to be honest, the first time I EVER came across Depo was when I bought my Shastan mare, she had been on it and I was researching it to find out the down time for it before we could breed

                                        So unless one of the other boarders decided to stick my horses with stuff unbeknownst to me, didnt happen ...
                                        www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                        www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                        True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                        Comment


                                        • I was referring to your post on hunters receiving ace 40 years ago. Lauriep first typed that, not DMK.

                                          As to your second, I find that a very interesting comment.
                                          "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

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