• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Jumping in Draw Reins?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    It does not necessarily take three months to teach a horse to engage from behind (which, I must point out, the DR's do not do anyways)... If it does, then maybe the rider is approaching it wrong. I can only speak personally, but because I agree with Zenyatta's statement for the most part (as evidenced by my post), I just wanted to add my .02 cents.

    I'm not teaching the headset per se, so the real ahah! moment would come as he learns to engage from behind, lift the back and neck at the base of the withers, and in doing so, happen to drop his head. The DR's do not teach that engagement from behind. So the ahah! moment is derived of him learning to work from behind...not his learning where to put his head. I don't care about the head and do not want to manipulate it before the horse is ready physically or mentally; it will fall into place as our work progresses. When it is supposed to, as a result of our work. Since the DR's do not teach him to engage, they are not the ones to deliver the ahah! moment, unless they are being used to teach him to keep his head low...which I do not want him to learn in the first place (like I said, it will just happen as a result of where the rest of his body is at).

    Progressive schooling doesn't have to be repetitive and nagging whatsoever! In fact you CAN'T be with most horses (and certainly not any of mine!!!). Progressive schooling exercises that also engage the mind and increasingly engage the body as the horse's mental and physical fitness increases are always key. None of it has to be monotonous. It is not one ahah! moment, it is a natural progression of learning.

    It should not take any additional time to teach a horse to work from behind as with the use of DR's though, for the most part (except under special circumstances), if the horse is being taught to correctly engage from behind... because DR's do not teach engagement from behind, directly. The progressive schooling exercises to teach a horse to engage cannot be rushed mentally nor physically, tools aside. You might be able to cut out an extra couple weeks MAYBE, on a severely inverted horse as you just tip the poll a tiny bit via the DR's and thus encourage the horse to think about working a little more through, but that's about it imo. There is no way to rush a horse's learning (ie, it's mind) nor its physical strength - you can only go so fast if you are to do so correctly and without gaps.

    Nothing against DR's really though, as I said above, to each their own. I do not use them personally but if someone else does and it works for them, so be it when it is not hurting the horse. There are a few riders I know and respect who do use draw reins in some of their work - not for an ahah! moment or anything, but just to keep the horse from only going so far inverted whilst they simultaneously work on progressive schooling exercises to engage the horse and naturally drop the head. In this case, the DR's are not used to keep the head down per se, just to limit the horse's level of inverted-ness.

    I don't believe it is ultimately about the tools though. Yes tools can help support, teach, refine, etc, but it is more about the horse and rider. I strongly believe the best horsemen is one who keeps their tools to a minimum. They might choose to use certain tools for certain jobs, as certain aids, support systems, etc, however they do not need said tools and their use is as limited as possible. As the horse is allowed to progress, the use of tool increasingly fade away (to the extreme point of being able to ride the horse at liberty - bridleless even, and accomplish all the same as previously with the tools... that would be the epitome).

    ETA: Just a thought, but aren't the old German schools of thought (etc) that one should establish a solid foundation on a young horse, one that takes at least two years to build? I think if one takes the time it takes, they're not going to need to worry about a couple "extra" weeks or months.
    ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

    Comment


    • #22
      I am not a big fan of draw reins because I think you have to be very careful to use them correctly and many people just don't. I bought a horse that had been incorrectly schooled in them and it took forever to get him to stop floating behind the bridle.

      I have ridden a few horses in draw reins because it just made sense for them. I had one mare off the track that my trainer thought they would help and it definitely did -- in two or three sessions she was working more correctly and we took them off.

      I have also jumped in draw reins (way back when) when riding with a BNT. For that particular horse, I think it was a good idea.

      However, most people ride too much with their hands and not enough with their legs which is the kiss of death with draw reins, especially when jumping.
      Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
      EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

      Comment


      • #23
        bad, bad idea

        If the riders' hands are educated enough to use draw reins properly; they should be educated enough to follow horses' head/ neck/ mouth in the air, so, horse and rider land in balance and under control. linput, everyone! It's cool to see what everyone has to say. Martingales work entirely differently, independent of a horses' mouth
        breeder of Mercury!

        remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
          My Trainer says that all young horses should be jumped in draw reins until they can learn to carry themselves properly without them.
          Who is this trainer? Need to stay far, far away!

          I was always taught that if you were skilled enough to use draw reins correctly, you wouldn't need them. I buy into that...
          madeline
          * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

          Comment


          • #25
            Really?

            Now people are posting on two year old threads to carry on this argument?

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by HD2008 View Post
              Draw reins are a training tool that most horses should never need if ridden/trained properly. They were not meant to be used regularly on any horse. If someone is using them that frequently, then they are using them as a crutch. Either they are "over-horsed" and can't ride their horse without them when the horse is fresh or they don't understand how to properly put a horse on the bit (impulsion comes from behind people, you don't "pull" a horse round). I think they are over-used in most cases. Rarely do you see someone who is using them because they really need the help they provide and then you don't see them used daily.
              This.

              We have barrel racers who use a German Martingale style device (that IS what it is, but they got it from some "big name" barrel racing trainer in Canada who supposedly named it after him, but, its a german martingale).

              Anywho, they use it EVERY time they ride.

              A tool is only a tool when you use it when needed; when you use it all the time, it becomes a crutch.
              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Zenyatta View Post
                I hate draw reins and feel it's using a short cut in the horses training.
                What's wrong with teaching a horse without gadgets?
                Your bit, bridle, stirrups, etc are also "gadgets". Actually, if we are talking au natural....his water bucket is a gadget.
                Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Silk View Post
                  Your bit, bridle, stirrups, etc are also "gadgets". Actually, if we are talking au natural....his water bucket is a gadget.
                  That should close this thread. No one could possibly have a stupider answer than this.
                  madeline
                  * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Draw reins are a lot different than a saddle or bridle..
                    I saw the angel in the marble and I set him free. - Michaelangelo

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                      That should close this thread. No one could possibly have a stupider answer than this.
                      So kind of you <eye roll>
                      Since most people voted your post as idiotic, I might go with pot-kettle regarding your response. Perhaps you don't view a bit as an "artificial aid" or perhaps you don't truly understand the proper use of a draw rein.

                      At any rate, your response was (and I see this often from you) was nasty and demeaning.

                      Carry on.
                      Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Silk View Post
                        So kind of you <eye roll>
                        Since most people voted your post as idiotic, I might go with pot-kettle regarding your response. Perhaps you don't view a bit as an "artificial aid" or perhaps you don't truly understand the proper use of a draw rein.

                        At any rate, your response was (and I see this often from you) was nasty and demeaning.

                        Carry on.
                        I thought your response was funny.. it gave me a good laugh.....

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Draw reins are an excellent tool for teaching a horse to balance on the rider's hand.
                          Power to the People

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by AlterHalter123 View Post
                            I thought your response was funny.. it gave me a good laugh.....
                            Glad you "got" it. It was supposed to sarcastic....but also to point out that there are many "artificial aids" and "gadgets" that can be very useful if used correctly and in moderation.
                            Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Never used draw reins for anything and never will-- flat or jumping. Seems very unsafe to me and they are counter productive to creating good contact. Period.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Draw reins are a tool that has a time and place like anything else. They're overused a lot and are frequently used in the wrong situation (or as a shortcut), but that doesn't mean that there isn't a way to use them properly and accomplish something.

                                Just my 2 cents.
                                http://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628
                                Proudly blogging for The Chronicle of the Horse!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X