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GM is nothing but a bully.

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    Originally posted by rileyt View Post
    This would be almost compelling, except... AGAIN (MHM and Trub)... I NEVER said it constituted cruel and unusual punishment. NEVER.

    If you're going to sling accusations at me, please respond to what I ACTUALLY wrote, and not the 7 pages of other people giving their opinion on what they think I wrote.
    Ignoring the rest of my post?

    Comment


      A question for the OP: are you watching the live feed of the clinic, or did you start this thread just off of the quote you read on COTH?

      I ask because, while I haven't watched all of the live feed, I have been able to see a bit and it might add some perspective to how you are taking this comment. GM seems to make some of these comments with a bit of a twinkle in his eye - and I even heard him laugh a few times afterwards. Don't get me wrong - he can also be harsh when someone makes a mistake, but he does seem to always follow up with a compliment when they correct the mistake and has had a lot of nice things to say about the horses and riders as well. A single line in an article isn't going to tell the whole story.
      http://community.webshots.com/user/Diva1998

      "Reality has a liberal bias" - Jon Stewart

      Comment


        A few pages back JSwan referenced a popular (in my book) television commercial. Completely apropos.

        And...if you want to make it to the top of the tree one philosophy you'd better adhere to is that wonderful old adage I learned in childhood....sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

        Thank goodness the generation that saw to it we aren't speaking Japanese or German got past being called a dumbbell!!

        Comment


          Originally posted by rileyt View Post
          This would be almost compelling, except... AGAIN (MHM and Trub)... I NEVER said it constituted cruel and unusual punishment. NEVER.

          If you're going to sling accusations at me, please respond to what I ACTUALLY wrote, and not the 7 pages of other people giving their opinion on what they think I wrote.
          No, you didn't use those words, but your reaction illustrated that you felt they pretty much were 'cruel' and unusual.

          Comment


            This wasn't just a clinic. It's the Horsemastership Program designed to take our best young riders and assist them to the INTERNATIONAL level. Honestly, I would guess that GM already knew all of these riders because I'm pretty confident that they all ride with the biggest of BNT's. This wasn't Susie from the lesson barn around the corner on a donated lesson horse.
            If she was riding like a dumbell she deserved it. Would little Susie deserve it? Probably not, but she's not in the process of seeking a position at the very top of her sport.
            I rode in my youth with a tough instructor who had himself been trained very old school. (He's almost 70 so he's GM's contemporary and probably had similar training in his youth.) This guy was a great rider/instructor and yes many times he growled at me because I was not doing what he wanted. I saw him ask riders to ride in and dismount because if they were not going to do as told, it was a waste of his time and his horse's effort. Once he told me he'd say I was riding like a drunken sailor but that would be an insult to drunken sailors. He was right and I straightened out. He was also the first one to shout YES!!! when you got it right.

            I think alot of young riders think they can get to the top in the BIG EQ and just move on to the GP and pro ranks. (Kudos to Brianne Goutal who obviously has made the transition.) It takes alot of thinking through problems to do that and GM is trying to teach these young riders how to think it out. The first step to thinking is a cranio-rectal extraction. At this level you can't just get on the horse and jump 10 -12 painted poles and head off to the pub. You need to be able to solve the problems of differing and difficult animals.

            If I were ever brave (or foolish) enough to ride before GM and the worst I was called was a dumbbell, I would be the happiest middle aged chunky woman on the face of the earth!

            I do see many trainers who think that because GM yells and snarks and gets results that they can too. GM is already dealing with elite riders who strive not just to be as good as they can be (like most of us do) but to be among the very best in the entire world. There is a difference between telling someone that they are riding badly and telling them that they are a bad rider.
            F O.B
            Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
            Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

            Comment


              Originally posted by Diva98 View Post
              A question for the OP: are you watching the live feed of the clinic, or did you start this thread just off of the quote you read on COTH?

              I ask because, while I haven't watched all of the live feed, I have been able to see a bit and it might add some perspective to how you are taking this comment. GM seems to make some of these comments with a bit of a twinkle in his eye - and I even heard him laugh a few times afterwards. Don't get me wrong - he can also be harsh when someone makes a mistake, but he does seem to always follow up with a compliment when they correct the mistake and has had a lot of nice things to say about the horses and riders as well. A single line in an article isn't going to tell the whole story.
              Exactly. If he really wanted to hurt someone, he'd probably come up with something more powerful than 'dumbbell'. George always seems to say these things with that twinkle in his eye! That's his style and considering his track record, he must be doing something right..

              Comment


                So help me understand what seems to be duplicitous thinking. So defenders, what if a school teacher had used this technique in the classroom? How long before that teacher would be in front of the school board and/or looking for a new job? The "real" world is cruel, why wait? How about a coach? A mentor? A counselor? I'm not sure I understand the need to be cruel to anyone. Truthful, yes. Mean, never. How long before the whole class laughs at you do you continue to raise your hand and perhaps give the "wrong" answer? Just wondering.
                The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                Comment


                  Sooo... lemme get this straight. I'm supposed to get upset because he called a young adult, who is supposed to be the "masterclass" of young riders in this country, a "dumbbell" because she wasn't listening/trying?

                  Seriously?

                  Have you heard what "kids" in the 17-22 group call each other on a daily basis? "Dumbbell" isn't even on the insult radar comparatively.

                  Any other sport (or dare I say "boys sport) and the coach is patted on the back for being one tough SOB on their players. Joe Paterno hasn't lasted this long because he's such a nice guy to talk to. He is hard on his players, but he knows the game, and can turn decent players into Good/Great players, and bring home championships while he's at it. Heck, I'm not even a Penn State fan and I can see that and respect the old man for it.

                  Similarly, anyone that even contemplates going to Penn State to play football knows they are going to get their butts kicked until they earn his respect. They know they don't get respect just for showing up. And they all want to earn the old man's respect.

                  So, in closing, don't ride with GM or try to play football for PSU if you can't handle good old fashioned butt-kicking from the trainer/coach.

                  P.S. I used Joe over the other similarly minded Big Name Coaches (College/Pro) mainly because of the generational similarity between him and GM. That, and within the sport, all you have to do is say the name and EVERYONE knows who you are talking about. But just to add, Bill Cowher wasn't exactly known for his warm fuzzies either.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by M. O'Connor View Post
                    In the last GM clinic I took part in...I nonetheless managed to earn the dunce cap myself after doing a couple hairbrained things (misunderstood his directions, went off course on the flat; brought the whole works to a dead stop by dropping my jacket right on the track we were working on, and in such a place that ONLY GM was available to pick it up?)
                    ROFLMAO

                    At your expense but it IS hilarious if you have actually ever ridden with, met and spoken to in detail or watched him teach. I bet he secretly thought it was funny too...

                    Oh, that horse has been dead for years and is now stuffed and mounted, fully exposed to all.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                      My husband is in the process of publishing a study on Post-traumatic stress disorder. The most amazing thing that he found int this study of domestic abuse is that the strongest correlation between the different risk factors for PTSD was not the various awful physical types of things done to young women. The long list included things like internal injury, head trauma, attempt to kill, kicking, punching, etc.
                      The single most awful thing that tops this list as strongest correlation to PTSD is swearing/name calling.
                      As a trauma and PTSD survivor, these name calling incidents are nothing to take lightly. If these girls are subjected to this, especially if it occurs on a more than one-time basis, say from a coach or trainer, they are going to suffer long-term consequences and they could be terrible consequences.
                      This needs to be taken very seriously. Coaching, even at the FEI level does not require belittling, swearing and name-calling. That is called abuse!

                      Comment


                        I'll repeat what I posted earlier - I don't think DUMBELL is the worst he's ever called anyone.. agree w/ Ruby up there - sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me...I'm not condoning the use of harsh tone or criticism but as others have mentioned, chances are pretty darn good this riders have ridden in front of and taken clinics w/ GM previously... It's not like they are 10 year olds in their first month of Short stirrup lessons

                        Comment


                          Oh lord... At a rated show in Florida, my husband kissed to his mount (a retired GP mare doing 3'9" ammies in the jumper ring) when he thought our trainer (the mare's owner) said GO. She said WHOA! The mare zigged, hubby zagged, hubby took out a 200# wing standard with his shoulder and it was obivously out of socket when he landed. The trainer stood there and shook her head. I went running into the ring. Did I say, "Oh honey, sorry for that bad decision. I hope you do better the NEXT time we drop 500 bucks on a sponsored class..."

                          Yeah, no.
                          "Get your a$$ up! What the he!! is wrong with you!? You could've hurt that mare! Go get her, she's freaked out! I don't give a rat's a$$ that you're hurt, we'll get x-rays AFTER we make sure our trainer's beloved mare is okay!"

                          Am I mean, cruel? No, I was pissed that he made a bad decision and wasn't listening because he thought he knew more than our trainer. He knew he screwed up, and knew exactly why I was pissed. And, we are MARRIED!

                          I would give my left arm for my husband to ride with GM. I am too novice and way too fat to ride with him and that's okay by me. I'd send my kids to GM if they showed 1/2 the talent that those kids at the Horsemanship clinic show (not yet, the kids are 4 and 2, next year, perhaps!).

                          I totally agree that GM is trying to get results. I also think GM is God.

                          The trainer in my story? Rode with GM with that mare at a clinic. Said it was best clinic she ever had, before or since.

                          I don't learn like that, but I do learn hearing from GM in his clinics. You go GM, make better riders out of all of us!
                          Steppin Not Dragon "Bella"
                          Top Shelf "Charlie"
                          Check out the Military + Horses fb page!

                          Comment


                            Wow, OP, I can't imagine getting so worked up over the word dumbbell. Is that really a first-class insult? Enough to warrant returning the word (which wasn't even directed at you) with moron, jerk, and idiot? There may have been more, but I am too lazy to go back and find all your posts.

                            Given the choice, I'd rather GM call me a dumbbell than a moron, idiot, or jerk....but if I rode in front of him, he'd more likely call me a fraidy-cat (presuming we're still working in the second-grade vocabulary level).

                            Comment


                              It is not the word, it is the technique. Insults and name calling are hardly motivational. But different strokes for different folks.
                              The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Jumphigh83 View Post
                                So help me understand what seems to be duplicitous thinking. So defenders, what if a school teacher had used this technique in the classroom? How long before that teacher would be in front of the school board and/or looking for a new job? The "real" world is cruel, why wait? How about a coach? A mentor? A counselor? I'm not sure I understand the need to be cruel to anyone. Truthful, yes. Mean, never. How long before the whole class laughs at you do you continue to raise your hand and perhaps give the "wrong" answer? Just wondering.
                                Kids have to go to school. Nobody has to ride with GM. So I think the classroom teacher analogy does not really apply.

                                Different people clearly have different opinions on where the line is between "truthful" and "mean." If you're a proficient rider, as these kids in the clinic are, and you've already seen 3-4 other kids do the exercise correctly, isn't it pretty dumb to do it wrong? At that point, is it "truthful" or "mean" to tell the kid not to act dumb?

                                I was watching the clinic online during that exchange, and before GM said a word to her, I wondered why she was completely missing the point of the exercise, and why she hadn't paid attention to what he asked of the previous riders.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by hollynanne View Post
                                  Oh lord... At a rated show in Florida, my husband kissed to his mount (a retired GP mare doing 3'9" ammies in the jumper ring) when he thought our trainer (the mare's owner) said GO. She said WHOA! The mare zigged, hubby zagged, hubby took out a 200# wing standard with his shoulder and it was obivously out of socket when he landed. The trainer stood there and shook her head. I went running into the ring. Did I say, "Oh honey, sorry for that bad decision. I hope you do better the NEXT time we drop 500 bucks on a sponsored class..."

                                  Yeah, no.
                                  "Get your a$$ up! What the he!! is wrong with you!? You could've hurt that mare! Go get her, she's freaked out! I don't give a rat's a$$ that you're hurt, we'll get x-rays AFTER we make sure our trainer's beloved mare is okay!"

                                  Am I mean, cruel? No, I was pissed that he made a bad decision and wasn't listening because he thought he knew more than our trainer. He knew he screwed up, and knew exactly why I was pissed. And, we are MARRIED!
                                  If he knew he made a mistake and was clearly paying for it in pain, how would you yelling at him help the situation?

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                    Ignoring the rest of my post?
                                    ???
                                    You mean where you point out that I misspelled asinine? What do you want me to say?

                                    You're correct. I misspelled it. I am a terrible speller. mea culpa.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Doctracy View Post
                                      My husband is in the process of publishing a study on Post-traumatic stress disorder. The most amazing thing that he found int this study of domestic abuse is that the strongest correlation between the different risk factors for PTSD was not the various awful physical types of things done to young women. The long list included things like internal injury, head trauma, attempt to kill, kicking, punching, etc.
                                      The single most awful thing that tops this list as strongest correlation to PTSD is swearing/name calling.
                                      As a trauma and PTSD survivor, these name calling incidents are nothing to take lightly. If these girls are subjected to this, especially if it occurs on a more than one-time basis, say from a coach or trainer, they are going to suffer long-term consequences and they could be terrible consequences.
                                      This needs to be taken very seriously. Coaching, even at the FEI level does not require belittling, swearing and name-calling. That is called abuse!
                                      Oh for Christ's sake, if this thread is going to revert to this level of EXAGGERATION, then I'm done. Seriously?? I have no words. Seriously, none. Pathetic.

                                      Honestly. If a person is going to shrivel up, whither, and die because someone calls them a dumbbell, then they're not going to make it in this world. This is where George is right, Americans are too ****ing SOFT. GM is not inflicting PTSD level abuse on these privileged kids. He's trying to pull their head out of their a** long enough so they can make it over the fence. They know better and WILL survive. Jesus Christ, if they can't, then they're simply not cut out for that level of riding. Survival of the fittest, let the wimps go home.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by MHM View Post

                                        I was watching the clinic online during that exchange, and before GM said a word to her, I wondered why she was completely missing the point of the exercise, and why she hadn't paid attention to what he asked of the previous riders.
                                        Stage fright?

                                        Something you have to get over if you want to be a top rider, but that could be why you saw so many silly mistakes.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Jumphigh83 View Post
                                          It is not the word, it is the technique. Insults and name calling are hardly motivational. But different strokes for different folks.
                                          You do know that GM is from NYC, right?
                                          Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

                                          Comment

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