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GM is nothing but a bully.

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    Originally posted by Lucassb View Post
    Not a prayer that he had a guilty conscience; in fact, that is pretty hilarious.
    Ditto to that as well!

    Comment


      Dumbell? Really? That is not harsh especially when you are not paying attention.

      Here is what Wayne Lukas said to me one day when I started galloping at the track:

      "You should have that ride on video. That way when you have grandkids you can show them what a crap rider you were and that's how you ended up bagging groceries for a living. That's all those useless hands of yours are worth."

      I cried and almost quit my job but decided I wanted to be good at what I did and he wasn't exactly wrong about that particular ride. I made a vow to get better and I ended up getting on the best horses he had.

      I work better with a stick, not a carrot but everyone is different.

      I recently started back taking lessons. To make a long story short it's been since 2003 since I was doing jumpers in a serious fashion. I've spent the last 7 years on breakers and young horses who go back to their owners when they are riding well. I was breeding my own in the meantime so I just gave up on the jumper thing. Now I'm back taking lessons with the trainer who has my mare. I'm also back to galloping racehorses full time as well, I love punishment. At any rate in one of my first lessons he told me to do something and I said "I know but...." Well I can tell you I haven't opened my mouth since. I had forgotten that I am not there to make excuses for myself, I am there to be a better rider. End of story. I can hack it or I can walk away it's my choice. Now my trainer is not overly obnoxious, but he is to the point and very direct. That works for me, maybe not everyone.

      I would love to clinic with George Morris.

      Terri
      COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

      "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

      Comment


        Originally posted by M. O'Connor View Post
        I've seen people who are paying a LOT more than the kids in this group get called MANY worse things than "dumb-bell," by trainers with not a FRACTION of the skill and experience of GM, btw...

        No one seems to start threads about how horrible THOSE trainers are....
        That was my point about my concern about Mr. Morris' conduct.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Lucassb View Post
          Not a prayer that he had a guilty conscience; in fact, that is pretty hilarious. He is quite clear that he believes that if you can't take the heat, people... get out of the kitchen!

          (yes, a direct quote from an earlier session.)
          No way was GM feeling guilty, that's the funniest thing I have read in this entire thread.

          Comment


            Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
            He does not respect the horses nor the riders.
            These rider's are not Leslie Howard or Ann K, they need to earn respect. For an individual to think they are entitled to respect by an elder is absurd, and it represents an extreme disconnect in current society. Some of these rider's couldn't trot a single pole on the ground - not acceptable for a 'top' young rider, IMO.

            I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that he doesn't respect horses. He might be demanding of them, as professional athletes, but much of his teaching revolves around the rider being consistent and clear. This allows the horse to understands it's job, usually leading to a horse that is content & willing to work for its rider. His whole half-seat mantra is based on allowing the horse to use their back to the best of their ability. In this clinic, just as an example, he tells the rider's how to properly cool-out there horses, build confidence with the crop by gently introducing it, and prepare the horses for success by introducing things properly, even in the most seasoned equine athletes.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
              So now you know exactly how he thinks and what he means at all times? And that there's no way over half a century being at the very top levels and almost as long being a top level coach he'd have learned and implemented a calculated teaching method? And that after tens of thousands of clinic riders and students that he can't read a person and tailor a lesson or comment directly to them?

              Seriously????

              So your assumption is that he felt guilty and doesn't really care much....*sigh*...wish I had a career where I cared so little I was still doing it full time at the age of 73.

              We get it, you obviously loathe the man. You're not going to listen to a single point or opinion with an open mind. Fine, no big deal. I'm sure both you and George will sleep fine tonight anyway.

              And please add me onto your list that does think calling someone a very mild dumb bell when they ignore a direct instruction perfectly fine.

              I doubt the actual rider called a dumb bell cares 1/10 as much you do about this whole thing. She didn't get to Master Class level by being a jackwagon crybaby. She knew she was going to hear from the very best and she knew what his methods were like. Big kudos to her for getting there...takes a buttload of work and talent to get there. And nope, just getting there doesn't make you immune from being called a dumb bell. Dollars to donuts she, like every rider that's ever shown mid to top levels, has ridden oout of a show ring and had her personal everyday trainer ask her, "What were you thinking in there you dingbat?"

              MistyBlue - I have tried hard to be respectful of all posters on this thread... even the ones I vehemently disagree with. But after this second post of yours where you miss the point so completely, i have to wonder whether you are being deliberately obtuse, or whether your reading skills just aren't that great. please try again to read for comprehension before you make assanine statements like the ones above. I never claimed I could read the man's mind... and i think you know it. When you intentionally mischaracterize someone's statement in this way, it only makes you look foolish and immature.

              Comment


                Originally posted by sptraining View Post
                Studies show that students learn better in a close-to-stress-free environment.
                Yes, but when the learning is 'physical', a little pressure from the trainer can have a much needed effect. It's a sport, not bookwork and facts that need to be retained. Sometimes hand-holding and spoon-feeding just isn't enough and the trainer needs to get just a bit more forceful (Ask me how I know).

                When our horses aren't listening, do we keep being kind and polite? Does that get the point across? Definitely not!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
                  These rider's are not Leslie Howard or Ann K, they need to earn respect. For an individual to think they are entitled to respect by an elder is absurd, and it represents an extreme disconnect in current society. Some of these rider's couldn't trot a single pole on the ground - not acceptable for a 'top' young rider, IMO.
                  If they've made it to the top of the junior ranks and can't trot a pole, then we need to have some conversations with the trainers of these top juniors.

                  I agree, respect is earned. I wouldn't say GM doesn't have respect for horses and riders. I think how demanding he is speaks of his respect to the horse and rider because being sloppy doesn't help anyone. We respect our horses by riding them correctly, and we respect our riders for taking the responsibility that they influence the horse.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by rileyt View Post
                    When you intentionally mischaracterize someone's statement in this way, it only makes you look foolish and immature.
                    Like when you say the use of the word "dumbbell" constitutes cruel and unusual punishment?

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Diva98 View Post
                      I guess I have thicker skin than most - but I don't think that the comment was that horrible or offensive. I found the OPs rant a bit of an over-reaction.

                      These riders are the top juniors in the nation - being steered towards international careers for the most part. They are going to have the confidence, the skills and the thick skin to get over the comment and learn from the lesson. And I don't think any of them went down there not prepared for some GM comments - it's not like people didn't know what to expect. Just my $.02.
                      100% agree with the above. It's not like he's not equally praising these riders when they do things properly! Frankly, as these riders were selected as potential team members of the future, I'd hate to think of how that rider would react to Olympic pressure if she couldn't handle "dumb" after completely ignoring instruction and not performing an exercise that had been demonstrated moments before.
                      "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                      Comment


                        GM is just a b*tchy queen.

                        There, I said it. Somebody had to.
                        "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by MHM View Post
                          Like when you say the use of the word "dumbbell" constitutes cruel and unusual punishment?
                          This.

                          Originally posted by rileyt View Post
                          please try again to read for comprehension before you make assanine statements like the ones above.
                          Let's not forget telling someone they are asinine is OK too. (Or maybe Riley meant something else that the dictionary does not have since she uses creative spelling.)

                          And to think, MB did not even pay for Riley's opinion.

                          Comment


                            Does anyone have a clip of this 'incident'? I haven't seen it.

                            Without seeing the clip before passing judgment, I'm going to hazard to say that quite possibly, it was deserved. If these riders are supposed to be masters and they are ignoring The Master and making no observable effort in complying with his instruction then I can understand his frustration. The girl either was a 'dumbell', or just lazy and disrespectful. I'd guess the latter. What's the point of going to a clinic if you're not going to try?

                            It's not like these were novice riders. I can see where this comment could be inappropriate at a 2'6'' or 3' level. But what he was asking of the girl was not, in his perception, difficult. Perhaps he felt she was being lazy and complacent, thus resulting in his free-flowing criticism Some people need that. Was it effective? Did she open her ears after that and perform the task appropriately?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by equidae View Post
                              Yes, but when the learning is 'physical', a little pressure from the trainer can have a much needed effect. It's a sport, not bookwork and facts that need to be retained. Sometimes hand-holding and spoon-feeding just isn't enough and the trainer needs to get just a bit more forceful (Ask me how I know).

                              When our horses aren't listening, do we keep being kind and polite? Does that get the point across? Definitely not!
                              Well that completely depends on the situation. If they're doing something dangerous, then no, they get the snot beat out of them. But if they're green and distracted, then they don't get reprimanded. We set them up to succeed, keep asking and then they get rewarded for doing something right and then we move on.

                              Over disciplining makes a calloused horse. Under disciplining makes an overly sensitive, unruly horse. It's about finding an appropriate balance for each individual.

                              Pressure comes in different forms. I remember having a teacher whom I respected greatly and many other students did too. When he said that he was disappointed in one of us (in a calm tone with no meanness in his voice) it was like he just sent daggers through the person. We respected him because he respected us and to lose that respect was devastating.

                              Words have power.

                              Comment


                                I have been watching the session as much as I can, but I missed the "dumbell" incident.

                                Is it not nice to call someone a dumbell? Of course! But so many coaches have called so many athletes so much worse, to take grave offense is maybe overreacting a bit. Atheletes sometimes need a push when they get stuck, sounds like it worked!

                                I have learned quite a bit from just watching the sessions, and should I have the opportunity to clinic with the man, I wouldn't expect gentle hand-holding, and neither do the riders, I expect.

                                George strikes me as cranky old man (no insult meant - he IS old) with little tolerance of any b.s. But he has the ability and credentials to back it up. He may be rude, but I don't really sense nastiness. In fact, he is a lot nicer than about 99% of, for instance, football coaches out there, for comparison.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by sptraining View Post
                                  Well that completely depends on the situation. If they're doing something dangerous, then no, they get the snot beat out of them. But if they're green and distracted, then they don't get reprimanded. We set them up to succeed, keep asking and then they get rewarded for doing something right and then we move on.

                                  Over disciplining makes a calloused horse. Under disciplining makes an overly sensitive, unruly horse. It's about finding an appropriate balance for each individual.

                                  Pressure comes in different forms. I remember having a teacher whom I respected greatly and many other students did too. When he said that he was disappointed in one of us (in a calm tone with no meanness in his voice) it was like he just sent daggers through the person. We respected him because he respected us and to lose that respect was devastating.

                                  Words have power.
                                  I wasn't referring to green horses in my analogy; the riders aren't green. My experienced horse knows when he's being lazy, just as George knows when these riders are being complacent. A quick, hard snap with a whip for the horse and words for the riders can whip them both into shape

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                    This.


                                    This would be almost compelling, except... AGAIN (MHM and Trub)... I NEVER said it constituted cruel and unusual punishment. NEVER.

                                    If you're going to sling accusations at me, please respond to what I ACTUALLY wrote, and not the 7 pages of other people giving their opinion on what they think I wrote.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by equidae View Post
                                      I wasn't referring to green horses in my analogy; the riders aren't green. My experienced horse knows when he's being lazy, just as George knows when these riders are being complacent. A quick, hard snap with a whip for the horse and words for the riders can whip them both into shape
                                      I realize that. And I really don't have a problem with his style because I would consider it a priviledge to ride with him. Students should be prepared and be focused. His style comes with the territory and they should know that they're fairly accomplished already if they get to ride in that clinic.

                                      The problem I have is with the people who try to emulate his style WITHOUT getting the results. And there are a lot more people out there who do that. Ask me how I know.

                                      Name calling isn't my style. I have a thick skin but every once in a while when my confidence is down, the person whom I respect says one negative comment and that becomes the soundtrack in my head for a long time, and in a detrimental way. I am VERY hard on myself. I don't need help in that department.

                                      Comment


                                        I never claimed I could read the man's mind... and i think you know it. When you intentionally mischaracterize someone's statement in this way, it only makes you look foolish and immature.
                                        I'd say its more likely evidence of a guilty conscience, but I doubt he cares that much.
                                        I don't believe for a second that he called the girl a dumbell as a calculated teaching method to get her to do better -- let's get real
                                        Looks an awful lot to me like you're telling everyone else what he's thinking when he teaches.

                                        Apologies for my reading comprehension but I can only comprehend what you type. I cannot read minds.

                                        But thank you for the insults.

                                        I hate it when Im immature and foolishly read exactly what someone typed.
                                        You jump in the saddle,
                                        Hold onto the bridle!
                                        Jump in the line!
                                        ...Belefonte

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by rileyt View Post
                                          If you're going to sling accusations at me, please respond to what I ACTUALLY wrote, and not the 7 pages of other people giving their opinion on what they think I wrote.
                                          If seven pages worth of people got the same impression from what you wrote, does that suggest anything to you?

                                          Perhaps I should have used the word "imply" rather than "say."

                                          Comment

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