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GM is nothing but a bully.

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  • lauriep
    replied
    Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
    You have no idea what I think.
    I apply pressure even bitless, but I damn sure do not apply what GM is. And I was schooled with bits and never allowed to take such a hold...I was schooled to ask release and then take a soft hold then let go.....PATIENCE..........

    If anyone thinks this is ok, then please please let someone do it to you.

    Never said a damn thing about coddling the horse, however, if you are expecting a horse to "learn" then you ask and let the horse respond....ask over and over if necessary.

    This is not teaching the horse, this is merely making the horse submissive by force not by horsemanship.
    REALLY????????? You are REALLY going to question George's schooling of a very resistant horse???? I don't care if you criticize his "insults" of an inattentive rider, but to challenge this man's ability to TRAIN A HORSE??? You really have crossed the line. He has been training elite level horses since the 40s. Have you done NO reading about hiim and his teachings? He has perhaps the MOST educated hands I've ever seen on a rider. But you wouldn't know that, because you have never actually seen him ride, or heard him teach, or read his books. And YOUR credentials are, what?? You clearly show your lack of knowledge when you think that maintaining steady contact is forceful??? The horse is doing all the gyrations to resist, and George doesn't MOVE his hands but maintains steady, even contact no matter what the horse does. Please, get educated as to what putting a horse on the bit means before you make yourself look any more like a DUMBELL!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Foxtrot's
    replied
    If that was my horse I'm not sure I'd have let GM on it - I was waiting for a buck (saw it in the attempted fly change). I'd have been mortified if it had hurt the man. His hands were firm but never jabbing, and it would take some time for the horse to give in, but that's George - he gets on (without stirrups) and gives it his best. No abuse seen in tht video.

    Leave a comment:


  • spirithorse
    replied
    Originally posted by Eye in the Sky View Post
    Spirithorse thinks any applied pressure to a horse is abusive, so I take anything he says as - well - silly.
    You have no idea what I think.
    I apply pressure even bitless, but I damn sure do not apply what GM is. And I was schooled with bits and never allowed to take such a hold...I was schooled to ask release and then take a soft hold then let go.....PATIENCE..........

    If anyone thinks this is ok, then please please let someone do it to you.

    Never said a damn thing about coddling the horse, however, if you are expecting a horse to "learn" then you ask and let the horse respond....ask over and over if necessary.

    This is not teaching the horse, this is merely making the horse submissive by force not by horsemanship.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eye in the Sky
    replied
    Spirithorse thinks any applied pressure to a horse is abusive, so I take anything he says as - well - silly.

    As for GM - the man has issues, sure. Does it bother me? I haven't really decided. On one hand, nobody is really going to go to a clinic of his and not expect to be treated with some gruffness. I suppose I've come to the conclusion that I do not desire to be talked to like that, not because I think my feelings will be hurt, but because I will either:

    A. Laugh, and this would be highly inappropriate which will make me laugh even more out of nervousness. He would likely kick me out of the clinic. Or...

    B. I would have an ODD moment and tell him about himself, reminding him all about some not-so-lovely pieces of his past. This would surely be disrespectful, and I would likely regret it.

    Therefore, I have banned myself from going to any of his clinics as a participant. I think this is safer for all people involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • SFrost
    replied
    I didn't see anything wrong with how he rode that horse.

    Others have said this over and over but I have to agree that if you don't like GM's teaching style then don't ride with him or watch him. That simple. Honestly, I think it is pretty darn effective. If he wasn't he would not be where he is today.

    Personally, I don't want an instructor/coach to be crapping butteries and growing tulips while teaching me. Tell me what I am doing wrong and if I am being a complete idiot tell me that too. I don't care if you have to call me names, scream, swear...do whatever it takes to help me learn. I had a swim coach would would throw stuff at me while I swam screaming the whole time. Made me swim all the way to States. While others may think teaching like that is wrong the bottom line is that it works for some people. I'd give my right arm to have GM call me a name and them tell me what I am doing wrong.

    No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to ride with GM. If you want the "butterfly tulip" teaching approach find someone else.

    Leave a comment:


  • foursocks
    replied
    wowwwwwwwww- really? I can't keep away from this ridiculous conversation! That horse in the video doesn't need to be coddled, it needs to submit. I own one with "an opinion" and four years of trying to meet him halfway has produced a horse who thinks he's in charge and is a pig about it. I am in the process of starting over with him- and finally getting a happy horse who thinks it's ok if I'm in charge. If you ride a jumper who will not listen to you, a) you wont win and b) you may get hurt, you may ruin the horse and/or c) the horse may become unrideable.

    If all you want to do is plop around on your horse, cool- don't bother with higher levels of training and you'll both be happy. If you want to get somewhere competitively, you need to understand the horse you have so you can train it properly. That video was a great example of taking a bratty horse and calmly, methodically saying: you are not in charge, but it's ok- everything is fine, and you'll be happier once you accept my aids.

    As my trainer said the other day: Riding is simple, but it is not easy. Leg, seat and hand are simple concepts, but that is our language, not horse language. Communicating effectively with the horse is not easy, especially when they are resistant. You can't get anywhere with a resistant horse, and if it thinks it gets to make the decisions, or can't trust the rider to be clear about what s/he wants- that is dangerous.

    Leave a comment:


  • lcw579
    replied
    Agreed Hattie. I saw no manhandling. I kept waiting for it ... and waiting...

    Leave a comment:


  • Hattie
    replied
    Spirithorse - you THINK that video is FORCEFUL? - I see a spoiled unbroke horse. And just how would you handle it? Some of the people on this thread posting make me shake my head.

    Leave a comment:


  • QHmom
    replied
    I have to say that this is not a one time thing! He has been the same way for ever... Understand the context? Understand nothing....Rude is rude...and there are other ways to respond!
    Originally posted by MHM View Post
    The biggest disconnect I'm seeing on this thread is between people who actually saw what happened during this (or another) clinic, and understood the context of it, and those who just read about the comment after the fact.

    There are also differing opinions about whether calling someone a dumbbell when they do something dumb is mean or just honest.

    Again, I was watching the clinic online, and it looked to me like the comment was due to the fact that the rider had already seen what GM asked the previous 3-4 riders to do, and she still did something else.

    Leave a comment:


  • spirithorse
    replied
    Respectful

    Originally posted by bhrunner06 View Post
    and is very respectful of the horse.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHe10OK4qs

    Sorry, but what he demonstrates in this video is not respectful, but forceful.

    I personally have dealt with many horses like this and have never had to ride the mouth this badly. He is manhandling just like so many of the exercise riders on the race tracks.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2ndyrgal
    replied
    I'm not so sure we would demand better trainers for the jumping teams

    after all, the eventers have Capt. Phillips.

    I rest my case.

    Leave a comment:


  • bhrunner06
    replied
    Originally posted by MissyA84 View Post
    you people do," said Morris.

    I'm sick of people always saying how amazing and great he is, and they blindly listen to everything he says. Granted, he is knowledgeable and is often right, but there are many other great trainers that get their point across in a much more classy way, and are still effective. I guess it comes down to style and what type of teaching you prefer. If you like being yelled at.... then George Morris is your type of trainer. But to me, he takes the fun out of riding and is a major snob.

    you are correct that there are other trainers out there...so you dont like George, dont ride with him and dont watch his clinics. go to the other trainers out there. To each his own.

    and he is so far from a snob. SO far from a snob...he is the first one to hand out compliments when they are deserved, and is very respectful of the horse.

    Leave a comment:


  • hntrjmprpro45
    replied
    Originally posted by MissyA84 View Post
    you people do," said Morris.

    I'm sick of people always saying how amazing and great he is, and they blindly listen to everything he says. Granted, he is knowledgeable and is often right, but there are many other great trainers that get their point across in a much more classy way, and are still effective. I guess it comes down to style and what type of teaching you prefer. If you like being yelled at.... then George Morris is your type of trainer. But to me, he takes the fun out of riding and is a major snob.
    He is not for everyone but he is considered the top trainer in this country. If he was not the best, I think our international jumper teams would demand better.

    I also wanted to add that George Morris couldn't be less of a snob- he always emphasizes that good riding and clean, fitted tack will always trump a big wallet. I have seen him on many occasions praise the less expensive Ottb over the expensive warmblood. Snob he is not.

    Leave a comment:


  • MissyA84
    replied
    you people do," said Morris.

    I'm sick of people always saying how amazing and great he is, and they blindly listen to everything he says. Granted, he is knowledgeable and is often right, but there are many other great trainers that get their point across in a much more classy way, and are still effective. I guess it comes down to style and what type of teaching you prefer. If you like being yelled at.... then George Morris is your type of trainer. But to me, he takes the fun out of riding and is a major snob.

    Leave a comment:


  • KBG Eventer
    replied
    Okay, so I read several pages of this but not all. My hunter/jumper friend told me about the live streaming/videos online the other day, and I have watched 3-4 of them. I'm really enjoying watching them! I haven't gotten to the dumbbell part, but haven't really seen anything I would call rude or insulting. In fact, some of his comments are quite funny!

    I loved the part where he started talking about how he has always been a chicken. He's had to work at his bravery and so has Anne, and when they were at Aachen, Anne was grabbing his jacket saying "Can I do this class?". And he said 'Anne! I'm riding a younger, greener horse in the same class. Don't be asking me if you can do this!".

    I'm around the same age as these girls, and I really don't think he's being downright cruel or a bully. Sometimes you need a wake up call (speaking from experience)! When I rode with Jim Graham (eventer), he would make teenagers repeat "I'm a teenager, and teenagers act stupid" if we messed up, especially if the mess up was a result of not listening to him!

    Leave a comment:


  • 2horseowner
    replied
    I just finished watching the series on USEF. I loved listening to him and was not offended at all. He was simply trying to get a point across. The dumbell comment was harmless in my opinion. The rider simply wasn't getting the job done. I rode with a dressage instructor when I was 13, and she told me one time that I was wasting her time, that I was stupid because I could not ride a 20 meter circle. I rode with her until she died over 20 yrs later. What I learned from her was priceless. GM knows the riders are extremely talented, he just wants to see them ride even better. Even at 47, I would love to ride with him and be "yelled" at.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foxtrot's
    replied
    Ha - he still wears the rust breeches and shades!

    Leave a comment:


  • lexie1
    replied
    In the early 1980's, when I was about 13, GM schooled me for about 10 minutes at a horse show (I think he just couldn't help himself - I didn't know him but he clearly couldn't stand what I was doing wrong) and all he did was raise his voice (not yelling, just spoke in that distinctive voice a little louder). I will never forget him saying "oh little girl, little girl, on the brown pony, come here to me." He did not say one insulting or mean thing to me - actually didn't say much to me other than "now try this" and "again, again." I don't know why he decided to help a total stranger. But it was the best ten minutes of my life, until the day I got married.

    BTW when I was a junior, we all knew when our trainer was mad or frustrated with us. She would call us "sweetheart" in an agitated, irritated tone of voice. "Sweetheart" was the equivalent of "you dumbbell" and we all knew it.

    There's a local jumper trainer here in the neighborhood who will literally pull clients off their own horses, telling them "GET OFF!! YOU"RE RUINING YOUR HORSE!!" After seeing that, GM looks like a pussycat. I just hate seeing him get old.

    I still have an official show program from Devon with him on the cover, jumping a 4' hunter, back in the Disco era. He's wearing a brown hunt cap, an odd pale tan/creamy colored jacket, rust breeches, and brown aviator shades (maybe they're prescription glasses than turn darker, I don't know, but they're not cute). Every time I read his jumping clinic column and heard him hammer people about traditional dress (please tell me he doesn't still require long sleeved button down shirts), I think of that cover, and would really love to point out his own past bad fashion choices.

    Leave a comment:


  • danceronice
    replied
    Spirithorse--some are okay, some depend on the tone in which they were said, and the wrong person in the audience will get his ass sued if he uses the lesbian remark. (That one's just inappropriate.)

    One I hear a lot is a variant on the "When you're as good as so-and-so you can X". That one depends entirely on the tone, but mostly it's funny as I've yet to hear it used directed at someone who has any realistic chance to reaching the level of the person they're being compared to. (At dance, "When you're Yulia Zagoruchenko, you can cheat on how you settle into your hip. Until such time...")

    And hospital or get back on is another that's gonna get him sued someday if someone decides to get back on when it really should be the hospital. Really, how many of us really don't use the best judgment about getting back on to begin with? I know I'm guilty, and even Evil Trainer didn't always approve of that....

    Leave a comment:


  • spirithorse
    replied
    found these on net

    Quotes attributed to GM
    who is offended by these?

    "If your horse lacks impulsion, cluck and use your spur. Don't pump. You look like an ape in labor on the top limb of a tree."


    "This is riding, not tidle-winks"


    "I'm going to teach you about men. Distances are like men. Never grab the first one you see; it's never the best one, more will come along."


    "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."



    "Don't be distracted by criticism. Remember the only taste of success some people have is when they take a bite out of you"


    "Don't be afraid to show off on course. You will be rewarded for brilliance. Not reckless brilliance, but natural brilliance. Don't be sheep."


    "If riding were only blue ribbons and bright lights, I would have quit a long time ago"


    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn...I can yawn, because I ride better then you, Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."


    "i don't care about social class. i have social class"

    "i get paid to do nothing, the excersises do the work"

    "riding is first a sport and an art, not a business. that's why i make a lot of money"

    "simplify! you are making things too complicated!"

    "i don't care about your money"

    "don't kick him! stop kicking your horse! we do not kick our horses!"

    "when i started riding i was in Jurassic Park"

    "STUPID CHILD!!!"

    " You are clueless about riding!"

    "I love you I love you I love you but I can't do it FOR you"

    "children in the audience must be quiet or they must leave"

    "if you have come here just to say you have ridden with george morris, i hate you"

    "pay attention!"

    "STICK that son-of-a-gun!"

    "you are so self centered!"

    "don't PET your horse! this is NOT a lovefest! this is not woodstock! we're going back to the 60's over there..."


    " You are as dumb as a box of rocks!"



    "Don't smile or smirk, look straight ahead, don't look at me!"



    "You either go to the hospital or you get back on! Hospital or on!"



    "You are just a country jerk, don't waste my time going off course!



    "You think you are so good. You are just a big fish in a very small pond, I would rather be a small fish in a big pond!"


    "You are a floating piece of fur!



    " BEAUTY FADES, BUT DUMB IS FOR EVER!"


    "save those disco spurs for dancing"


    "You are young and dumb."


    "Sit deep in the crotch and flow!"


    "This saddle is a ball crusher!!!"


    "You're not a learner are you?"



    "Talking to you is like a brick wall."


    "that mare must be a lesbian, because she certainly needs a good licking"


    "You will be on this earth a short while, you will be dead for a long time, but if you are stupid, you will be stupid forever."

    Leave a comment:

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