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    Originally posted by Angelico View Post
    If you want to be good, you will not have a problem "finding" time.
    Sure, unless you're an adult with a family, bills to pay, a demanding job with demanding hours...unfortunately, some people (myself included) have jobs and responsibilities that will FORCE them to sacrifice ride time. I'm a good rider. I dedicate an extraordinary amount of time to it and have dabbled in/considered even going pro. I also work a job in an industry that occasionally forces me to go out of town for days on end, work 40 hours over 3 day spans, work weekends, and give up everything else so that I can afford to do things like ride.

    I WANT to ride 7 days a week. I find time as best I can with the insane schedule I have. I often work 9pm to 5am, then am at the barn by 2pm to swing a leg over a half-dozen sale horses that my trainer wants me to ride. But I can only do that 3-4 days a week. Does this mean I don't WANT to be good? No. It means I'm an adult with adult responsibilities.

    The attitude that "you'll make time to ride 6 days a week if you really want it!" is so out of touch with your average adult's reality. It drives me crazy.
    Last edited by chicagojumper; Sep. 15, 2014, 04:48 AM.

    Comment


      Originally posted by chicagojumper View Post
      Sure, unless you're an adult with a family, bills to pay, a demanding job with demanding hours...unfortunately, some people (myself included) have jobs and responsibilities that will FORCE them to sacrifice ride time. I'm a good rider. I dedicate an extraordinary amount of time to it and have dabbled in/considered even going pro. I also work a job in an industry that occasionally forces me to go out of town for days on end, work 40 hours over 3 day spans, work weekends, and give up everything else so that I can afford to do things like ride.

      I WANT to ride 7 days a week. I find time as best I can with the insane schedule I have. I often work 9pm to 5am, then am at the barn by 2pm to swing a leg over a half-dozen sale horses that my trainer wants me to ride. But I can only do that 3-4 days a week. Does this mean I don't WANT to be good? No. It means I'm an adult with adult responsibilities.

      The attitude that "you'll make time to ride 6 days a week if you really want it!" is so out of touch with your average adult's reality. It drives me crazy.

      Yeah, well, adult responsibilities are the results of choices you have made. No one forced you to get a demanding non-horse job; you could have gone the working student route. The fact that for whatever reason you didn't go all in and chose another path instead was a choice, not something life did to you.

      I say this as someone who made the same choice. When I was 15 I was a working student with Lendon Grey while Courtney King was also a working student and schooling Idocus at fourth level. Courtney had gotten on a bus and said to hell with her family and went all in at that young age. I did not have the balls and I chose to go to college andfind a job I could support my horse habit with. Courtney went on to the Olympics, I am nowhere close. This probably has something to do with our differing levels of commitment to the sport.

      Which is not to say I haven't made sacrifices to ride. While in law school I spent 4 days of the week 5 hrs away, riding. I never attended Thursday or Friday classes. As a lawyer, I woke up at 4:30 to ride before work, then went to work, got home by 8:30, went straight to bed, did it all again the next day. When 4,000 lawyers got laid off I moved from NJ to TX so that I could afford to keep my horses. I rented a room in a double wide, but I rode.When I got an attorney job in Buffalo I taught and trained 40 hrs per week on the side. Riding at 4:30 before work, riding until 11pm after work, 12 hrs per day on the weekends.

      Needless to say, I did not date. I did not do a job I enjoyed, because the ones I enjoy would involve either no money (relief work) or far too much travel to ride (concert promotion/political campaign staffer).

      I have managed to cobble together a riding skill set that is better than the average pros. I say this not because I as an individual am particularly awesome at riding, but because if you look around, especially in places that aren't horse meccas, most pros have not , for example, trained a horse from scratch to Third level+. Most pros have not made up $50k or $100+k horse. Few have had the opportunity to at some period in their life average a "quarter (or half, depending what's in the barn) million dollar day" which is shorthand for total worth of the horses you rode that day, yours or other people's. So I have made some big sacrifices and I have managed to do better for myself in the long run, even with a full time non-horse job on the side, than a lot of pros who for whatever reason did not pursue or get lucky enough to get the same education.

      And yet still, training up a good moving hunter for an adult to show and buy is, in the grand scheme of things, average. Training a third level horse is average.

      "Excellent" is riding Grand Prix dressage and having a shot at a 70%. "Excellent" is the high performance hunters and derbies, and giving people a run for their money about it.
      "Excellent" is developing you client string to a point where every day is a million dollar day.

      So sure, I have sacrificed to ride, and I have become better than your average pro if you plop me down in a non-horse-mecca. If you want to remind me how average I am, plop me down in NJ or Westchester.

      Ultimately, if I had chosen to go all in twenty years ago, I would be riding GP dressage. The fact that I took a different path and constantly balanced first educational responsibilities and then work responsibilities against my desire to ride is why I am not riding GP right now. Other people get to ride a line of one tempis every day, on multiple horses, I have never once in my life done it.

      Riding is clearly very important to me and I have made choices that reflect that. But I have also made choices that severely hampered my development as a rider. Those were CHOICES, not something out of my control bc magically out of nowhere someone made me go to a law firm job in Manhattan five days a week. If I *really* wanted to ride GP, I would call up my contacts and ask them about what pros with a going string of FEI horses need working students right now. I have several offers of places I could go that would give me a room and a sale horse stall. I literally could make that phone call right now, to contacts I already know well and already have in my phone, but on same phone I am typing about not doing it. Right now, at this point in my life, for reasons I have, every day I wake up and choose to do something else. It is a choice.

      To pretend otherwise would be silly. Denny is simpy telling the truth.

      Riding doesn't give a sh*t about anyone's responsibilities. It couldn't care less if you want a boyfriend or to have a child or financial security or whatever else. You can't learn to ride faster than the time and effort you are willing to put in. If you choose to take on competing responsibilities (for reasons I well understand since I made the same choices), your riding will suffer as a result of those choices. Period, end of story, no point in sugar coating it.

      Of course Denny's arguments are unrealistic for average adults who have made the typical choices in their lives. But his book is called how good riders get good, not how average riders get average.
      Last edited by meupatdoes; Sep. 15, 2014, 10:02 AM.
      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

      Comment


        Originally posted by chicagojumper View Post
        Sure, unless you're an adult with a family, bills to pay, a demanding job with demanding hours...unfortunately, some people (myself included) have jobs and responsibilities that will FORCE them to sacrifice ride time. I'm a good rider. I dedicate an extraordinary amount of time to it and have dabbled in/considered even going pro. I also work a job in an industry that occasionally forces me to go out of town for days on end, work 40 hours over 3 day spans, work weekends, and give up everything else so that I can afford to do things like ride.

        I WANT to ride 7 days a week. I find time as best I can with the insane schedule I have. I often work 9pm to 5am, then am at the barn by 2pm to swing a leg over a half-dozen sale horses that my trainer wants me to ride. But I can only do that 3-4 days a week. Does this mean I don't WANT to be good? No. It means I'm an adult with adult responsibilities.

        The attitude that "you'll make time to ride 6 days a week if you really want it!" is so out of touch with your average adult's reality. It drives me crazy.
        As someone who has put financial security on the line, put off having a family, and dedicated my life entirely to my sport from the start, I cannot sympathize. I want it, so that means that horses, riding, etc come first without a question, everything else must work around it. You have to be willing to be uncomfortable sometimes, that is where a lot of people faulter with horses. "If you want it, you'll make it work", is not out of touch the average adult's reality, it is out of the average adult's comfort zone.

        The first few years were rough for me, not knowing when my next meal would be was not fun, but that was part of what it took to be in a position to have the opportunities to gain experience, I didn't mind it then and I don't regret it now. If you haven't lived it, perhaps you can't understand and that's why people like myself and DE just sound crabby to you, but it is insulting to me in a way to hear someone complain that they "don't have the time" but still want to get the perks reserved for those who did make the time. You can find the time, it's just a matter of how much you want it, and if you want it bad enough you'll make sacrifices to make it happen.

        "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester

        Comment


          Originally posted by Angelico View Post
          "If you want it, you'll make it work", is not out of touch the average adult's reality, it is out of the average adult's comfort zone.
          Ding ding ding.
          (I say from my comfort zone.)
          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

          Comment


            Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
            Of course Denny's arguments are unrealistic for average adults who have made the typical choices in their lives. But his book is called how good riders get good, not how average riders get average.
            I disagree. This depends on how you define what a "good rider" is and what the required timeframe is to "get good." His book is about having competitive success. It has nothing to do with being a "good rider" because that's not a universal concept.

            The reality is that most people who do not come from money, cannot just give up that six figure job to go play with ponies every day. If that's the case, then that's not a "choice you've made" it's reality that a $75k competition horse and 20 shows worth of fees + board + training is not going to fall from the sky into your lap. He'd be a lot better as an instructor if he was more into the "learn to ride what you've got" camp instead of the "get more money/more talent" camp. Give me tools to help me ride what I do have and get better with it, but telling someone to get more talented is kind of disingenuous.
            Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
            you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

            Comment


              Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post
              I disagree. This depends on how you define what a "good rider" is and what the required timeframe is to "get good." His book is about having competitive success. It has nothing to do with being a "good rider" because that's not a universal concept.

              The reality is that most people who do not come from money, cannot just give up that six figure job to go play with ponies every day. If that's the case, then that's not a "choice you've made" it's reality that a $75k competition horse and 20 shows worth of fees + board + training is not going to fall from the sky into your lap. He'd be a lot better as an instructor if he was more into the "learn to ride what you've got" camp instead of the "get more money/more talent" camp. Give me tools to help me ride what I do have and get better with it, but telling someone to get more talented is kind of disingenuous.
              Imo, there is one overall spectrum in this universe of "What It Is Possible To Do On the Back of a Horse." This includes tempi changes, canter pirouettes, hunter derbies, and GP jumpoffs.

              "Good" or "not good" depends on where you fall on the overall spectrum. If you can do an average number of things that it is possible to do on the back of a horse, you're average. There is no special subcategory where you can do 30% of what somebody else can do and still call yourself good. Everybody expects a gold star for being completely average but guess what unless you are exceptional you aren't better than average. That is what the words mean.

              Secondly, nobody is telling anybody to be more talented, although talent is often confused with skill. Talent is inborn. People cannot change their inborn level of talent anymore than they can change their height. Some people will never have the combination of mental and physical characteristics to become good riders. Other have the ingredients but do not develop them into skills. Courtney King would be equally talented if she had never sat on a horse and tapped it. She has the same talent now that a physical injury prevents her from flexing it.

              Thirdly, I don't know where you think $75k competition horses come from but just to use my own experience as an example, I have posted on here before that at least half of my riding education was free. For the half that wasn't free, I have funded my own riding in its entirety since the age of 15. Speaking of riding what you got, my first sale horse (eventually sold for $2,500) was an ottb, second one ($30,000, purchased for 1/9 that amount) was an ottb, and the best and most valuable horse I have ever owned I went in on with a friend for board expenses and trained up from scratch in the hinterlands. So a lot of WORK and several YEARS and several horses LATER can get you a competition horse to "just give up" (or not, depending on what choice you make). Horses can be leased out at the expense of your own competition resume and further skill development to gain show results for resale on the leaser's tab. And then, when you finally have your dream horse, you can sell it, so that maybe then you can play with ponies all day.

              From my personal experience, I learned to ride what I had and make it better,and then flip it and learn to ride THAT ONE and make it better, and then flip that one...
              .In addition to learning to ride all the green horses that my trainers had, and yes, "paying lesson money to train someone else's green horse," which you repeatedly see people complaining about on here. They want to lesson and work on them, not lesson and learn how to ride something that needs work.

              I'm sure a lot of people who have seen me ride the best horse I have ever owned have sucked their teeth and thought to themselves, "Must be nice." Well, I moved across the country with him and rented a room in a doublewide and trained that motherf*cker up in the hinterlands for years before he became that nice. (Where was this independent source of income you evidently assume people with show horses have then, I wonder? Seriously, tell me bc I sure as sh*t would like to know.)e Thank you for the revelation that made up high dollar competition horses don't just fall into your lap, I wouldn't have had any idea if you hadn't shared this little nugget.

              Nobody resented me then, I can tell you that much.
              Last edited by meupatdoes; Sep. 15, 2014, 12:42 PM.
              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

              Comment


                Denny will teach anybody who wants to learn. What he posts on his facebook and writes is his book, is how he would like things to be. But daily, if you want to improve, even just for fun, he will teach you.
                And if you are a fairly crippled adult, trying to battle back after injury, he is your man.
                www.ncsporthorse.com

                Comment


                  Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                  Imo, there is one overall spectrum in this universe of "What It Is Possible To Do On the Back of a Horse." This includes tempi changes, canter pirouettes, hunter derbies, and GP jumpoffs.

                  "Good" or "not good" depends on where you fall on the overall spectrum. If you can do an average number of things that it is possible to do on the back of a horse, you're average. There is no special subcategory where you can do 30% of what somebody else can do and still call yourself good. Everybody expects a gold star for being completely average but guess what unless you are exceptional you aren't better than average. That is what the words mean.

                  Secondly, nobody is telling anybody to be more talented, although talent is often confused with skill. Talent is inborn. People cannot change their inborn level of talent anymore than they can change their height. Some people will never have the combination of mental and physical characteristics to become good riders. Other have the ingredients but do not develop them into skills. Courtney King would be equally talented if she had never sat on a horse and tapped it. She has the same talent now that a physical injury prevents her from flexing it.

                  Thirdly, I don't know where you think $75k competition horses come from but just to use my own experience as an example, I have posted on here before that at least half of my riding education was free. For the half that wasn't free, I have funded my own riding in its entirety since the age of 15. Speaking of riding what you got, my first sale horse (eventually sold for $2,500) was an ottb, second one ($30,000, purchased for 1/9 that amount) was an ottb, and the best and most valuable horse I have ever owned I went in on with a friend for board expenses and trained up from scratch in the hinterlands. So a lot of WORK and several YEARS and several horses LATER can get you a competition horse to "just give up" (or not, depending on what choice you make). Horses can be leased out at the expense of your own competition resume and further skill development to gain show results for resale on the leaser's tab. And then, when you finally have your dream horse, you can sell it, so that maybe then you can play with ponies all day.

                  From my personal experience, I learned to ride what I had and make it better,and then flip it and learn to ride THAT ONE and make it better, and then flip that one...
                  .In addition to learning to ride all the green horses that my trainers had, and yes, "paying lesson money to train someone else's green horse," which you repeatedly see people complaining about on here. They want to lesson and work on them, not lesson and learn how to ride something that needs work.

                  I'm sure a lot of people who have seen me ride the best horse I have ever owned have sucked their teeth and thought to themselves, "Must be nice." Well, I moved across the country with him and rented a room in a doublewide and trained that motherf*cker up in the hinterlands for years before he became that nice. (Where was this independent source of income you evidently assume people with show horses have then, I wonder? Seriously, tell me bc I sure as sh*t would like to know.)e Thank you for the revelation that made up high dollar competition horses don't just fall into your lap, I wouldn't have had any idea if you hadn't shared this little nugget.

                  Nobody resented me then, I can tell you that much.
                  You completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which has to do with a specific instructor and things that he has said to people/students, either myself or others I have witnessed firsthand. Maybe he's mellowed in the past 10 years, I don't know. His facebook rants don't give that impression.

                  I'm glad you're a super rider who has made up some fabulous horses and lived in a trailer. Good for you. Has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I'm really unclear on whether you're trying to convince ME or you're trying to convince YOURSELF that you're stellar and have made all the "right" decisions.

                  It's certainly clear that ego is not a problem for you, though, so I guess there's that battle won.
                  Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
                  you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by shea'smom View Post
                    Denny will teach anybody who wants to learn. What he posts on his facebook and writes is his book, is how he would like things to be. But daily, if you want to improve, even just for fun, he will teach you.
                    And if you are a fairly crippled adult, trying to battle back after injury, he is your man.
                    This is the impression I've gotten. If you go to him fully healthy and young and whine about not getting ahead when you aren't putting the effort or hours in and want it all unrealistically, then he probably is going to have some words for you. But especially recently I feel like I've seen him also allowing that sometimes our bodies are just not cooperative and someone who is doing the best they can with injuries/health issues is not any less deserving of respect than the kid who is a working student grunt sleeping on sofas and saving every penny to ride and show.

                    Will you be able to get to the very top as a fairly crippled adult? Unlikely. But he seems willing to help you do what you can do if you are serious about it.

                    Comment


                      Wow, some of these posts make me feel like the posters would think I don't even deserve to utter BNT's names.

                      I suck. I love horses, I've ridden since I was a teenager and am now 35. There were years I missed due to injuries, moves, life. I've not ridden near the amount of horses you guys have due to many of the places I had to live from the military didn't give me much access. I rode my horse (a humble wonderful foxtrotter) and got lessons when I could.

                      Due to the fact I have depth perception problems, inner ear problems, and scoliosis I hit a point when riding little jumpers that I couldn't overcome. Up until I hit 3 feet my trainer had high hopes for me. But at that height and higher I always misread jump distance and got in my horses way.

                      Other trainers made me feel like anyone else with my problems could over come them. I was looked down on because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't. I thought of learning dressage but by then we were moving yet again and I didn't have the money.

                      Be a student worker? I had to eat. Even once married we both had to work to pay the rent, I couldn't not work. The few stables that took student workers were over an hour away. The gas money alone would have destroyed us, never mind the mileage on our beater car.

                      So I got older and after two kids forayed into English land again. I have two little horses that are fun to ride on and my abilities are getting better. But there are things I just can't do due to time and health.

                      I've always been scared to take my lacking skill set into a Clinic, and these attitudes are why. Yes, it shouldn't matter. But when grown adults get a kick out of making another grown adult feel like shit because we weren't able to take advantage of whatever it is they think we should have, I just don't have the money to throw away to deal with that.

                      But if I now had a horse that could do it, and I admired a trainer that much to pay for a clinic, and she/he ripped me apart even though I tried my heart out, that would piss me off.

                      Those of you saying that it's our choices whether we admit it or not, are being very unfair. It may be true for some, but certainly not for all.

                      There is nothing like being proud of what you can do, and being told you have no right to be proud because you are average.
                      My herd for life:
                      King: 21 year old Foxtrotter gelding
                      Ruais: 8 year old Friesian/Arabian mare
                      http://imgur.com/a/LSPiJ#0

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post
                        You completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which has to do with a specific instructor and things that he has said to people/students, either myself or others I have witnessed firsthand. Maybe he's mellowed in the past 10 years, I don't know. His facebook rants don't give that impression.

                        I'm glad you're a super rider who has made up some fabulous horses and lived in a trailer. Good for you. Has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I'm really unclear on whether you're trying to convince ME or you're trying to convince YOURSELF that you're stellar and have made all the "right" decisions.

                        It's certainly clear that ego is not a problem for you, though, so I guess there's that battle won.
                        The point you're missing is that they are CHOICES. Talent is inborn or not, but hard work is a choice. Sure, it'd be nice to be born with a silver spoon and have things all your way and just have time in saddle be all the work you have to do. But generally, for most people, it's more than that.

                        I made the choice *in 8th grade* to not try to be an internationally competitive rider. Few people make choices that early, but because my district didn't have a high school and I was choosing between two, I chose the one which would lead toward an office type of professional job rather than a career in horses. I wouldn't have gone off to a very expensive 4 year school where I had student loans if I were going for a professional riding career, though I probably would have still gone to college.

                        Because my priorities stand more on taking care of my family who planned poorly for themselves, I didn't ride for 7 years after starting my professional career while I saved. Doing so set me up to basically be able to do horses as I want now. I still don't have a $75k horse, but I'm hopeful that in 8 years I'll have more than one horse valued at that - from me making them so.

                        It's choices. If I wanted to be a pro rider, I wouldn't be in the same position I am working, and I'd be finding jobs which could pay rent in a little place plus board for the nicest horse I could afford (and be trading them out as meup described) and working for a trainer from whom I could learn who would use me as a crash test dummy to ride all the difficult/young horses. It's how you start and learn and do things if you're looking to make it long term as a pro. Few top riders are lucky enough to have it easy when they start even if they do have money - and it's choices about how to handle the opportunities, looking for ways to say yes instead of no, which makes the difference.
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                          Originally posted by AmarachAcres View Post
                          I've always been scared to take my lacking skill set into a Clinic, and these attitudes are why. Yes, it shouldn't matter. But when grown adults get a kick out of making another grown adult feel like shit because we weren't able to take advantage of whatever it is they think we should have, I just don't have the money to throw away to deal with that.

                          But if I now had a horse that could do it, and I admired a trainer that much to pay for a clinic, and she/he ripped me apart even though I tried my heart out, that would piss me off.

                          Those of you saying that it's our choices whether we admit it or not, are being very unfair. It may be true for some, but certainly not for all.

                          There is nothing like being proud of what you can do, and being told you have no right to be proud because you are average.
                          I don't think anyone said that. You should be proud of doing what you can. I'm certainly nowhere above average, but I'm VERY proud because I have progressed beyond where I was.


                          I ride dressage now, but wouldn't have wanted to ride for GM when doing hunters, just like I wouldn't want to ride for Carl Hester now. They really should be dealing with more skillful riders than me, and that has nothing to do with how well or poorly they might treat me.


                          My trainer has a BNT (dressage) come in regularly who had a BLAST working with a woman who is very beginner on a poor quality horse who put up with her poor riding as it didn't know any better either. He taught her to get her leads and she progressed over her three rides with him - and to me that's the type of trainer I want to work with. One who cares if you're trying and improving, but doesn't measure you against others for that. I would absolutely ride with Denny if he were around, but sure wouldn't claim I'm a good rider to him!
                          If Kim Kardashian wants to set up a gofundme to purchase the Wu Tang album from Martin Shkreli, guess what people you DON'T HAVE TO DONATE.
                          -meupatdoes

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                            Originally posted by netg View Post
                            I ride dressage now, but wouldn't have wanted to ride for GM when doing hunters, just like I wouldn't want to ride for Carl Hester now. They really should be dealing with more skillful riders than me, and that has nothing to do with how well or poorly they might treat me.
                            I've known people who admire a BNT so much that they pay to go regardless of who they are in there with, which I admire. However some left feeling very let down but the lack of attention. Each time the clinic was open specifically to all riders. Most clinics seem to put what level riders they are geared for, but if it says all riders, well then they had every right to go.

                            I do see what you are saying, but they didn't go expecting to be told great job, they went wanting to have that experience and didn't get it because they weren't already good enough.


                            My trainer has a BNT (dressage) come in regularly who had a BLAST working with a woman who is very beginner on a poor quality horse who put up with her poor riding as it didn't know any better either. He taught her to get her leads and she progressed over her three rides with him - and to me that's the type of trainer I want to work with. One who cares if you're trying and improving, but doesn't measure you against others for that. I would absolutely ride with Denny if he were around, but sure wouldn't claim I'm a good rider to him!
                            Those are the type I work with, and it's wonderful. One woman I only got to ride with 2 times competes at top levels and treated my foxtrotter and I so wonderfully. She was still hard on me, but that was a good thing.
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                              Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post
                              You completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which has to do with a specific instructor and things that he has said to people/students, either myself or others I have witnessed firsthand. Maybe he's mellowed in the past 10 years, I don't know. His facebook rants don't give that impression.

                              I'm glad you're a super rider who has made up some fabulous horses and lived in a trailer. Good for you. Has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I'm really unclear on whether you're trying to convince ME or you're trying to convince YOURSELF that you're stellar and have made all the "right" decisions.

                              It's certainly clear that ego is not a problem for you, though, so I guess there's that battle won.
                              Really, you were responding to Denny Emerson's specific advice that you need to come from money, give up a $100k job and buy a $75k competition horse? Because I am on his feed too and I see him bitching about people who just buy high dollar horses that they have no idea how to develop themselves.

                              Did I miss the part where Denny Emerson came from money and just shelled out for tip top horses and this was his recipe for success?

                              Because my interpretation is that, #1., he does the math. Riding does not care if you only have time to ride twice a week because you have other commitments. If you aspire to be very good you will not get there on that schedule. This is just how it is,athough there is nothing wrong with dabbling in horses and not making it a priority to steer a horse around a sand ring better. The same way people bowl once a week with their friends and don't really care if they have perfect technique. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever, but if you want to become an above average bowler you have to put in above average time and effort.

                              #2. I really do not see where Denny's message is that everyone needs to just buy a money horse, because most of his rants are focused on lack of development of young horses and people wanting an insta horse. The first hurdle in horse ownership is getting the basic expenses covered: the stall,the vet and farrier, enough training to ensure you make progress. Once that is covered, any one can do sale horses. If they are willing to ride babies and reinstall the basics again and again then gradually you can climb up the quality ladder with what is in that stall you are paying for. Of course sticking with your heart horse is a perfectly acceptable choice, but if sitting on something competitive is a goal the first thing you need is the ability to pay expenses on a stall, and then gradually you can upgrade one by one what you put in that stall. Board bills are the same whether the horse inside the stall is four digits or six, and if you know how to develop horses you can improve your horse flesh from four digits to six without spending more in monthly maintenance than you would on a cheap horse.

                              So I guess if you want to interpret Denny's internet presence as saying you need to come from money and just buy yourself fancy horses, that is your interpretation, but I don't think that interpretation is based on anything Denny actually has said.

                              His advice tells people a path they can take to climb the ladder WITHOUT being a silver spoon child and just buying megabucks horses, but his ingredients do include arranging your life so that you have the basic amount of time and resources to do so. Unfortunately there just isn't a way to get good in two days a week or without somehow getting yourself access to at least one horse to borrow or own.
                              Last edited by meupatdoes; Sep. 15, 2014, 07:02 PM.
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                                I have heard nothing but people having a good time at Denny's adult camps. They are average riders with jobs, I think. When we sent our horse to him for lessons he was gracious and kind. He never yelled especially at the kids. He instills confidence and pushes you beyond your comfort zone that is how you improve BUT the difference with him that I see is that BASICS are required and if you do not have them that is an issue. Trendy type riding is not allowed. He, himself, shows pictures of when he was riding poorly even though he was winning.
                                I am hoping to bring my DD to him next summer. Our horse is a1 19 year old eventer that has stepped down. We are hoping he can instill the confidence in her to learn to event. I saw Denny work with 3 young kids a few years back for a few days and they had a blast and no one is headed to the Olympics.
                                If you want to be good at anything it takes a HUGE commitment.. How often do athletes train? NBA, NFL or swimmers? A lot!
                                Denny also never says go over seas and buy a European WB. He likes homegrown..with TB blood too or Morgans...
                                I think his view is more accepting then GM. I have been to many GM clinics to audit. I do not have the talent to ride in one but I do come away with something. He has also mellowed a lot over the years.
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                                  Thank God I"m perfectly happy being sufficiently adequate in my riding. Y'all make it sound like we're curing cancer or something here. Sorry but if you ever noticed the true BNT don't have time to be on these boards. Why?

                                  BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT RIDING.

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                                    "If you want it, you'll make it work", is not out of touch the average adult's reality, it is out of the average adult's comfort zone."

                                    Please don't flame...but I can't agree with the "work harder" and you can become a great rider with a great horse. This takes NOTHING away from those who gone this route and accomplished amazing things.

                                    But there are always wildcards that can stop a young adult's dreams. And some are pretty insurmountable and have posed major hurdles for myself or friends of mine.

                                    - Horses get hurt! Horses go lame! Yes, ideally you can take and make great horses, sell, and rinse and repeat. But if your horse has a career ending injury, you are then ethically responsible to take care of that animal. And that takes money.

                                    - The working student route is great - I did it myself and loved it and am seriously considering returning to it as an adult. But how does one pay for vet bills without an external source of income? (Insurance doesn't always cover everything...) Adequate health insurance? Human injuries?

                                    I'd love to throw it all in and go 100%. But another part of me cannot fathom the ethical and moral dilemmas I'd face if a horse of mine got hurt and I had no external source of income to give it the care it needs and deserves. Plus, I have spent a good chunk of my income supporting family members. I WISH I could have used that for riding. It aches to my bones.

                                    I don't want it any less than those have gone 100% all in. But it's not enough, given what one of the earlier poster said, some adult responsibilities. All I can say is that sometimes there is luck involved.

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