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GM is nothing but a bully.

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Coreene View Post
    Hells bells, it's a riding lesson, not Up With People. If everyone needs a trophy and a kissy, go play AYSO soccer instead.
    Like.

    One of the big things he cares about is that you really try to do what he tells you. It sounds like this person was not trying.

    Sometimes you do have to shock people in order to get them to pay attention. I'm a bit more limited than GM WRT I can do in my classroom, but I'll cite an incident. Students were issued with latex gloves to do a chem lab. One male student, fairly arrogant and mouthy, make a comment to the effect "girls, are you ready for your exam?" I looked around the room, make a quick assessment that this particular group of students probably wasn't going to report me, and said "you know -- they examine boys with those gloves too." He looked puzzled, then asked a friend, then his eyes got really big. Not only did he shut up, but I had no more mouthiness or other trouble from him for the rest of the semester.
    The Evil Chem Prof

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    • #42
      RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

      "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by rileyt View Post

        But calling someone a dumbell? Really. That is tremendously self-indulgent.
        Clearly some riders are more sensitive than others. I know riders that could never stomach GM. I can. People are different.

        He is "super star status" and has become who he is because of his amazing results in many riders.

        Have you ever been super star status? Probably not. When you are, you are extremely busy... and when you feel someone is wasting your time, not listening; you speak up.

        I don't think dumbell is a horrible word. I also think GM is self indulgent at times and he clearly admits it. It's no secret.
        Put your energy on what you want to grow!

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        • #44
          You do realize the riders in this group are all past the kiddy stage and do know that they represent themselves as the best and brightest we have about ready to advance to the top competition levels here, don't you? For riders expessing an interest in International competition and claiming the ability to advance to that level?

          It was billed as a Masters level session. Conducted in front of an expert audience. Not a friendly 2'6", 3' and 3'6" clinic in your area.

          And, whoever said he should get after the trainers? Well, obviously that person never watched him teach. He pretty much gets after everybody, including noisy auditors

          But, go ahead and write a letter demanding the USEF sanction him and remove him from any and all activity sanctioned by the USEF and the FEI including chef d'equippe and any involvement in selecting and developing International riders.

          Complaining he needs to go on here will not get anything accomplished.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #45
            Studies show that students learn better in a close-to-stress-free environment.

            My only concern is that an individual with a stature like his sets the tone for other lesser trainers who think it's okay to belittle their students on a daily basis. I'm pretty sure GM name calls for show, but I've ridden other trainers who try to emulate him and it just turns into a disaster of crying kids, pissed off parents, and unaccomplished goals. I'm fine with insults because I am hard enough on myself that I can ignore them but not everyone is like me. But I'll tell you that I've hesitated riding with him because I haven't had a fancy horse and didn't want to be the one who couldn't do the exercise because my horse's ability was limited. I do think that in order to be a top rider, you have to have a dig-down-deep-toughness and so you need to be able to develop a selective hearing that filters out insults and gossip.

            "Don't apologize for making a mistake. No one comes out here to make a mistake on purpose. Just don't make the same mistake twice." - Linda Allen

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            • #46
              Thanks for the clarification, Lucassb -- I've been able to watch part but not all of the morning sessions and must have missed GM's castigation of the riders' trainers. Honestly, I think it's time for him to write another book, this one addressing the problems he's seeing today.

              I also think it's worth noting that he's willing to poke fun at his own riding, both here and in his writings, when he feels that it isn't up to snuff.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
                Tell me....perhaps I am SO barking up the wrong tree....why do these riders all ride with their toes out? The horses are being banged with that spur at almost every stride. It is toes in, always.

                These riders may "sit pretty" but as far as effective riding is concerned...I see very little on these videos.

                ...

                Yes, of course riders must know diagonals, correct posture etc....but my riders do not perch, they use their seats in an effective manner to elicit the response from the horse when needed.
                So far as this is concerned... It's Mr. George Morris himself who teaches that toes should be angled out at 45 degrees. He's also a great proponent of the half seat, aka up out of the saddle, little sitting and driving with the seat, more driving with the legs.
                Faibel Farms Custom Fly Bonnets
                Like us on Facebook!

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Perfect Pony View Post
                  OMG, we might hurt the children and damage their self-esteem!!

                  You have got to be kidding me. The problem is that anyone would be scarred or damaged by George Morris calling them a dumbell.
                  I've never been the biggest GM fan BUT who cares if he calls someone a dumbell? I am so tired of hearing people whine about "the children" and "damaging their self-esteem". That is what is wrong with many of the teens/young adults these days - they all think they are so special. Guess what? They aren't. Nothing wrong with someone telling it like it is. If you can't follow instructions, repeatedly, you ARE a dumbell. If it was my kid I'd have been ready to throttle her myself.

                  Now back in the '70's my trainer used to make us all cry on a regular basis but he was always right and we learned how to ride. A compliment from him was priceless. I guess we were made of sterner stuff back then. Funny, I don't recall anyone being damaged psychologically either.

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                  • #49


                    You left the "cry baby" off the end there though.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by rileyt View Post
                      "But Morris was not pleased with the group's execution of the difficult exercise. "Tighten that turn, you dumbbell!" he barked to one rider. "I'm starting to think you're half-dumb. Don't waste my time.""

                      That's it? Hon, I don't think you understand the term "bully."

                      JSwan - I love that commercial. Perhaps GM should take a box of tissues with him to use during his clinics.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Lessons and clinics are where you learn. Everyone learns differently, everyone has their respective coach or trainer for a reason. Riding is not for the faint of heart. However, coaches have to respect the riders goals. Some riders do not want to aspire to the Olympics for example. Some want to ride "good enough."

                        These riders, though, are supposed to be the future of the sport. On the other hand, their lack of experience with different kinds of horses is in living color. If you always ride the nice horses, you learn nothing but how to push the right buttons. I don't know these riders' experiences or who they train with.

                        If I were George, I would be calling the trainers on the carpet.

                        As George mentioned, jumper riders are made "on the flat." No truer statement was ever made.
                        Bethe Mounce
                        Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                        https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                        Brentwood CA

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by klmck63 View Post
                          So far as this is concerned... It's Mr. George Morris himself who teaches that toes should be angled out at 45 degrees. He's also a great proponent of the half seat, aka up out of the saddle, little sitting and driving with the seat, more driving with the legs.
                          I know....sigh.....I disagree! I don't agree with everything he says. For many his word is gospel, for me it is too, to a certain degree. I have never ridden with him, but had the opportunity to talk to him.
                          Bethe Mounce
                          Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                          https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                          Brentwood CA

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by lcw579 View Post
                            I am so tired of hearing people whine about "the children" and "damaging their self-esteem". That is what is wrong with many of the teens/young adults these days - they all think they are so special. Guess what? They aren't. Nothing wrong with someone telling it like it is. If you can't follow instructions, repeatedly, you ARE a dumbell.
                            Now back in the '70's my trainer used to make us all cry on a regular basis but he was always right and we learned how to ride. A compliment from him was priceless. I guess we were made of sterner stuff back then. Funny, I don't recall anyone being damaged psychologically either.
                            I have been in lessons where I have seen girls ride off in tears and I didn't think the trainer did ANYTHING WRONG to provoke the water-works....

                            IMHO the tears were because the rider couldn't do something right and wanted to be the super star of the the lesson....
                            Put your energy on what you want to grow!

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              But it seems to me that our national sporting federation should hold people to a higher standard than this.
                              At the higher to top levels...all sports are pretty much the same.
                              With anything Equestrian being seen by the rest of the sport watching world as namby-pamby expensive hobby for the uber-wealthy spoiled elite.
                              Make it so all top level training in this sport is butterflies and rainbows and...well...our reputation is well deserved then.

                              Even watch training camp for the NBA, NFL, MLB? (especially for the athletes that don't carry free agency contracts?)

                              Do you see the coaches standing there and calling out, "You need to listen please and try to do what I asked you to do again and see ifyou can get it right this time."

                              GM has been doing this since Jesus was in short pants. He's well known to the point that the initials GM have immediate recognition in the equine world.
                              And not a single equestrian doesn't know that he's going to be brutally honest.

                              To be taken seriously as an actual sport and not as a waste of time hobby for the elite we need the GMs of the world and I only hope we keep that frankness and serious training alive as he (sadly) keeps aging.

                              Heaven protect us from the Stuart Smalleys of the world.

                              Training and clinics are free choice...GM is 100% known to not being a hand-holder.

                              Don't like him? Don't train with him. It can be avoided.

                              I do find it odd though to get offended for someone else who wanted to train with him and decided to ignore his instruction. How did it affect you personally?
                              You jump in the saddle,
                              Hold onto the bridle!
                              Jump in the line!
                              ...Belefonte

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Of course, reading the FULL write up wouldn't paint any more of the story now would it?

                                http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/2011-george-h-morris-horsemastership-training-session-day-3-whos-afraid-big-bad-water

                                Some other Mean George Quotes:

                                Originally posted by Geroge Morris
                                "That spoiled horse! I hate that!" barked Morris. "If they kick up in the change, you must leg them. That is a very big resistance."
                                I'm sure the horse is devastated.

                                Originally posted by Geroge Morris
                                along with explicit instructions from Morris for the horses and riders to approach the exercise slowly but with impulsion and rhythm: "Keep your horse forward and into your hand."
                                Originally posted by Geroge Morris
                                "Always do some constructive dressage work for about 30 seconds at the end of a series of jumps to refocus your horse," explained Morris.
                                Originally posted by Geroge Morris
                                "I purposely put this exercise against the rail right next to the spectator tents," noted Morris. "This will force you to use your inside leg and outside rein. Straightness is imperative."
                                Evil, I tell ya.

                                and my favorite:
                                Originally posted by Geroge Morris
                                As morning sun gave way to storm clouds, attendees gathered inside for a photo review of the riders by Morris. After critiquing each young rider, Morris was able to laugh at himself as the audience reviewed photos of the clinician while riding the students' horses on Day 1 and 2 of the sessions.
                                "This is a very good example of bad," laughed Morris. "Were all of my jumps like this?"
                                I dunno. Some of this stuff actually sounds kinda helpful.

                                And no, these weren't "posted" by GM, but I can't make the quote function say that.
                                EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

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                                • #56
                                  For what it's worth.......when I was very young, the last statement made to me at the ingate before I went in to jump a rather big course on a green horse was: "if you do not go clear, you will never ride this horse again!" I learned to be tough yet compassionate. It has served me well.
                                  Bethe Mounce
                                  Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                                  https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                                  Brentwood CA

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Yeah I guess it is the trainers BUT there is tremendous pressure on them to have little Suzy or Johnny succeed. The parents spend zillions of dollars on the perfect horses to get results immediately. You don't learn to ride over night no matter how much $$/success you have....Big dollars means big pressures and big results. Like an old horseman I know used to say (Henry Schurink for those who know him) "America is the land of instant coffee"...No one wants to pay dues, no one wants to earn it, they want to buy it. Those hapless kids are reaping what they (their paretns/trainerrs/etc) have sown. Sad, but true.
                                    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

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                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by sptraining View Post
                                      My only concern is that an individual with a stature like his sets the tone for other lesser trainers who think it's okay to belittle their students on a daily basis. I'm pretty sure GM name calls for show, but I've ridden other trainers who try to emulate him and it just turns into a disaster of crying kids, pissed off parents, and unaccomplished goals.
                                      I'll agree there are wanna-be types who try to use GM style methods without the ability to back it up with results. Hopefully those people winnow themselves out as they produce unhappy customers, rather than successful competitors.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Lucassb View Post
                                        George is not the kind of guy you go to if that kind of comment is going to bother you. If he believed the rider was not trying hard enough or not paying attention or whatever... that is the type of comment he will make.

                                        As hellerkm stated - and pretty respectfully, IMO, so there's no need for any bashing - this topic comes up pretty much every time GM does a public clinic. Some people shrug and say, "hey, that's George," and others echo rileyt and say

                                        (hey, at least GM didn't use the F word....)
                                        Agreed with the above. And I would like to add that the best in every industry is met with opposition and is not always the norm. In order to be the best, you need thicker skin than to let comments like that weigh on you.

                                        I would take it a step further to say the OP is not the best since it bothers her. Do you think GM cares if someone says he is demeaning? Do you think Beezie cares if you think she is dumb or would go home crying or start a post on the Chronicle about it? No.

                                        These adults/young adults are on their way to professional careers that far surpass the ordinary rider. They might even represent our country at some point. No time than the better to get tough!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          IMHO the tears were because the rider couldn't do something right and wanted to be the super star of the the lesson....
                                          I don't doubt that this is true in many cases, but I think it's unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. (I'm talking in general terms now, not about the people in the Horsemastership clinic.) Who's to say that those tears don't represent the rider's disappointment and frustration with herself because she's trying but still not getting it right? We are not all naturally talented riders, and Lord knows I've had plenty of those lessons myself. I make sure to let my trainer know that it's my issue and not her I'm reacting to -- and then I get back to work.

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