tips on staying with a horse who has a big bascule?

[lisa]

In addition to a shorter stirrup and a new saddle, both of which helped, a GP rider told me to think about jumping ahead just a fraction.

[Plumcreek]

What helped me was visualizing every jump as a foot higher than it was. Then I was prepared for the bigger effort, and was secure enough to handle the happy buck going away.

[doublesstable]

I had to buy a new saddle.

one with knee and calf blocks rather then a knee roll.
Made all the difference.

Ditto this ^

I kept getting "popped" out of the tack and I was SOOO frustrated... changed saddles was a big help.

AND - - the key elements for me -

1) keep your eyes up (use your peripheral vision to see your jump)

2) keep a good consistent rhythm to the jump (horse in front of your leg, using their hind end and balanced

3) A recent BIG TIME help for me after reading a George M. article - foot in the stirrup; the iron should be straight with the girth, with you pinky toe at the outside branch of the iron.. so basically your foot is "not" sitting in the stirrup straight; the inside branch is back a bit more than the outside branch - looking at your toe cap of your boot. I was told by a very good trainer that top judges say they look at a riders foot in the stirrups... a good rider the stirrups don't move.

4) And - lower leg base is critical!

As you see in Monica's video (thanks Monica by the way) you see over the jump in the slow motion part of the video; her lower leg slips back.

Work on these things and you will find you can actually follow your horses mouth with your hand and that's a great feeling that your body is working independently and you are doing the best you can to help your horse jump well.

And something I tell myself when I am jumping on my unpredictable horses "keep my lower leg at the girth and I should be fine".... if I pinch w/ knee oh goes the lower leg "back" NO pinching either. Good luck!

[Show_hunters]

IMO it sounds like the horse is not in front of your leg enough. It also sounds like the horse is doing his job well by rocking back on his hind; which creates the the lovely round jump that we all desire in a hunter.

Sometimes when a horse rocks back on it's hind. They will tend to back themselves off the jump. Which is good and bad thing because when this happens. The horse is self adjusting on it's own to the fence (i.e. make shorter it's stride(s), or may even wiggle as if it's hunting for the fence. As a rider would feel the horse become lighter in the frontend, head may even pop up a little and you feel more of the step coming from behind the horse( as you should. As a note your leg should be a little more forward and you should try to ride the horse more from hind to front and make sure that you are not feeling as if your are behind the farward canter motion at anytime. However riders who are riding behind the motion of the stride will get lost as you try to find your way to the jump. Then if you combind it with a horse that backs themselves off the jump 2-3 strides out (as they should) you will get lost in the motion of the jump and be jumped out of your tack.

A more expressive example of a horse that backs themselve off a jump would be a very talented green horse who is just starting to jump or watch some jumper rounds at the rated shows.

As long as your feel the horse's hindend under you and pushing forward combined with riding up to the jump with your leg slightly forward (but asking for the forward motion) and heels down. Then as you near the jump make sure that you are not leaning at the jump and not over releasing in the air. (as My trainer Chad Keenum say's to me-- "Stop over releasing in the air. It's causing you problems on the backside of the jump." i.e. What Chad means is that my horse Simba would become rushed on the backside or wild or just not composed. Which would create a nasty corner or tough lead change on my horse Simba) . My other advice to you is that on the back side of the jump, you MUST land in your stirup irons (i.e. weight in your heels) and then allow the horse to coast as you stay in 2 point position for 2 strides or so after the jump.
I'm 5ft and 1/2 of an inch and being a shorter rider. I've learned that I must have the horse in front of my leg (hacking or jumping). By doing so it provides you a more stable base of support from hips down. After that your hands and upper body should just flow with the horse softly over the fence.

[fair judy]

i like to keep things simple love that video btw. looks like you didn't have a prayer!!!!!!

i used to be from florida. what "john" do you ride with in gainseville?

[Punkie]

I've got a SUPER round hunter who I'm in the process of moving up on. Thankfully he doesn't have the habit of being round AND over-jumping any more, but this was an issue for a long time.

As many others have said, think about "kicking" your feet forward at the base of the fence and breaking your hips back using your core over the top. It should feel like you're doing a squat set at the top of the jump. This keeps your base of support over your heels and you close to the tack but up off your horses back. Grabbing mane helps hugely as well. My other "secret weapon" is breathing at the base. I try to breathe in rhythm with my horse and then exhale at the base of the fence which allows me to relax down into my tack. This has also made a big difference with my issue of throwing my body.

I struggled with this for a long time as I've never had a horse with quite as awesome of a jump, but once I learned to ride it, I can't tell you how much fun it is!! I've taken this guy out XC where he jumps even harder and I thought I'd be terrified...nope, best time I've ever had on an XC course!! Once you learn to ride it, you learn to LOVE it!!

[PNWjumper]

I think figuring out what to do to help yourself will partly depend on why your horse jumps you loose. If he simply has a round bascule, but jumps hard (with a tendency towards cracking his back) then you've received some really good advice.

But I will tell you my story with my TB, who used to jump me loose over what felt like every few jumps. He would pat the ground with his front end and then SPRING off of his hind end and overjump by 2-3 feet (often without bothering to bend his front legs). My issue with him was that he has a massive hind end and in his greener years jumped almost exclusively from that hind end (it wasn't any prettier in person than it is picturing it). I'm guessing this is not the issue with your horse, but in case it helps anyone else with the same problem...

The key for me was keeping my pelvis WAY further forward than is/was comfortable. If I sat back too far in the saddle (I *wanted* to sit deep in the saddle to prepare myself for the jump) then the saddle would act like a springboard to launch me forward. I got the dreaded "tacks on the back of the saddle" treatment in a Greg Best clinic to "gently remind" me to stay forward, and that definitely helped (as much as I hate to admit it)! Basically he had me shove my lower leg and my shoulders back while keeping my pelvis literally on top of the pommel of my saddle. Very weird and hard to do at first, but it definitely helped me not get launched.

A different saddle also helped (and his current saddle has very large knee/thigh blocks which I LOVE for him), though ultimately the big difference was figuring out how to stay forward enough while still keeping my balance back far enough.

As we moved up the levels his jump got easier and easier to stay with. At 1.40m he now jumps like a "real" horse because he actually has to use his body parts somewhat conventionally. So at least in my case, my "jumper-looser" got MUCH easier to ride with time. It also helped that all of the dressage work we did helped balance out his body structure and musculature. The straighter and stronger he got, the more normally he started jumping.

Good luck to you!

[SnicklefritzG]

Thanks everyone for the fabulous responses! In reading them I can see that there are certain things I'm doing that are exacerbating the problem. I'll apply the suggestions at my next lesson and will report back on how things go!!!

Thanks again!!!

[RyuEquestrian]

i like to keep things simple love that video btw. looks like you didn't have a prayer!!!!!!

i used to be from florida. what "john" do you ride with in gainseville?

Our trainer is John Brown of Braveheart Farm in Sanford, FL. I now have this grey mare with him in Sanford and he comes to the farm to train the others in Gainesville. We LOVE him, he's just great with the young ones!

[SnicklefritzG]

UPDATE:

I have some great news to report afer tonight's lesson!

I followed the suggestions that were given in this thread and was able to NAIL the jumps tonight right from the get-go!! What helped the most was the advice people gave me to a) have a good pace coming to the jump b) DON'T look down!! c) sink into my heels and push my leg forward just slightly d) don't tilt too far forward from the hips but feel like you are squatting in the saddle. e) grab mane!

The distances were great, the releases so much better than last week, I stayed with the motion, cantered away smoothly and was able to work up to a small course! It went much better than I thought it would.

Thanks again to everyone who responded with advice on what to do. this really helped out immensely!!!

[RyuEquestrian]

Great to hear! Congrats and it should only get easier and easier with practice! Way to go :-)

[chawley]

I haven't read all the responses, so I apologize if this has been suggested already. I find riding in a two point at the trot to be the best way to improve my balance and strength over the jump (I ride w/out stirrups too). I try to do at least several minutes each direction (without my hands resting on the neck) every time I ride.

And as others have said, don't be afraid to grab mane! I'm working on a green sale horse right now with a huge, round jump (much harder than my horse), and I'll admit, I have grabbed some mane on him lately.

[supersly]

My horse i ride when you jump him you need a seatbelt even over a 18" jump! I just learned to grab a hunk of mane get your but out of the saddle and go with him. But i find with him the higher the jump the easier it is, or im use to it now

[equest]

Such a small little tip, but I found that when I did the equitation it really helped me.

That being said, I still have some issues from time to time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylpC9_8gIyA

Enjoy at my expense.

LOL... I think you posted that one before, right? Good fall technique, though - I fall like that too. haha

I agree with the pushing heel forward and grabbing mane. I get out of the habit of grabbing mane but I am reminding myself now. Especially these cooler days where horsey is more "up" and he's looking at the jumps and overjumping.

[chawley]

UPDATE:

I have some great news to report afer tonight's lesson!

I followed the suggestions that were given in this thread and was able to NAIL the jumps tonight right from the get-go!! What helped the most was the advice people gave me to a) have a good pace coming to the jump b) DON'T look down!! c) sink into my heels and push my leg forward just slightly d) don't tilt too far forward from the hips but feel like you are squatting in the saddle. e) grab mane!

The distances were great, the releases so much better than last week, I stayed with the motion, cantered away smoothly and was able to work up to a small course! It went much better than I thought it would.

Thanks again to everyone who responded with advice on what to do. this really helped out immensely!!!

Great news, congrats on your good lesson!

[winfieldfarm]

....gorrilla glue helps me.

[Carol Ames]

lots of movement

grab mane, keep your head up, and understand that during your time in the air your horses' back moves; that is usually when some pros like Rodney let heir legs slide back; I am not saying to do it consciously just realize that there is still a lot of movement in the horses' body; keep your lower leg in position; tighten your thighs and enjoy the feeling of the horse curving his back ; does he flip his hind end as well?Keep your head up , back flat; and enjoy the ride

[Carol Ames]

leg, thigh and back

lower leg support is definitely important nut, realize that you will feel some movement in mid air; this is where thigh support and a long flat back help; You can practice unmounted / standing still folding at the hip with head up and flat back.

[Carol Ames]

thiking back

I recall jumping big verticals going to he base became easier for both of us when, I thought of looking UP at the top of the vertical , closing ,my leg and feeling the horse "ooze" up and around the vertical; in a gymnastic like a dolphin arcing gracefully through the water, helps in gymnastics/ combinations