Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Pre Purchase Exam Issue

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
    Original Poster

    #61
    Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post

    I think it's pretty easy for some sellers to say "no no this horse is fine" on the phone. What you need to do is get it in writing in case you have to go back and prove they lied.

    I ask specific questions: has this horse ever colicked? Has this horse ever been lame? Has this horse ever had any joint injections? Are they on bute? Ever had tildren or osphos? What exactly does this horse eat including supplements? What kind of shoes are they wearing? Have they ever had ulcers? Been tested for or suspected of having PSSM? Neurologic issues? What deworming and dental protocol do you follow? Will you release all vet records to my vet? etc etc etc

    As these questions one by one before you see the horse. When PPE time comes, my vet has all this printed out on a form the seller has to fill in, sign and date. In front of the vet. Yep, that can cause some HARD thinking... won't fill it out? Won't release vet record? Won't pull shoes? Won't allow you to draw blood to test for painkillers or sedatives? NO SALE.

    I know it can be hard to drag people through a million questions when you're excited about a horse but an honest seller will volunteer this info and welcome the idea that you care enough to ask.
    Those are very good questions to ask. Thank you. I did get in writing from the seller, before I made an appointment to see the filly, if she had medical, soundness or temperment issues, her level of training, info about her personality, a copy of her papers, how she is with a herd, loading, and farrier.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Hunter50 View Post

      Those are very good questions to ask. Thank you. I did get in writing from the seller, before I made an appointment to see the filly, if she had medical, soundness or temperment issues, her level of training, info about her personality, a copy of her papers, how she is with a herd, loading, and farrier.
      I don't think you did anything wrong here - it was bad on the seller's part not to discolse up front something that was so obvious once you saw the horse in person. If it were *truly* a temporary thing, I would have expected them to mention it ("oh, we've got her in pads right now because she was trimmed badly at the track" or something like that) before I came out.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
        Bigger question for me...

        You were looking at this horse without your trainer but you couldn't notice degree pads when looking at the horse just standing there on your own.

        I'm glad you're passing but I would politely suggest that you not skip having your trainer involved if your eye is not as attuned to notice basic things from moment one.

        We have ALL had to learn as we progressed and I would say this is a good moment to be thankful to having dodged a bullet, but your education still is in process. So don't leave your chosen teacher behind as you move forward on your search.

        Good luck!!

        Emily
        The horse may have had bell boots on that would have made it so that it was harder to see. She also does not mention how much of a wedge. It could be a pretty small one so harder to notice the difference between rim pad or plain pad just standing there. My trainer's philosophy is if they have front shoes they have bell boots at very least for turn-out. Since the ones that hold up best are pull on KL Select they get left on all the time.

        If my memory of the first post is correct OP picked the horses feet after she rode and noticed them then so it isn't like she didn't notice them at all.
        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

        Comment


          #64
          I agree with SonnysMom- it can be very easy not to notice if shoes are "normal" or not, with or without bell boots. For example, some glue ons are very noticeable, others need a closer look to see that they are held on without nails.

          My horse just had glue ons put on with a rocker wedge thingy (technical name!) You can see the glue on part easily, but until you pick up his foot the fact that it isn't a flat shoe is not noticeable.
          You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
            Another vote to pass on this one.



            I am curious, what is there to understand? The only reason I can come up with for a seller to say no to x-rays is that they do not want the buyer to see something. Well, I guess there is that the poor thing's feet can be so messed up that one additional set of nail holes is going to send it over the edge into total destruction. But that is yet another reason to not buy it.

            Pulling shoes and putting them back on for X-rays should not be an issue.
            Exactly - that the feet are so messed up that it could cause the horse to be sent into lameness beyond reasonable consideration, but I agree, it's just another nail in the coffin as to why I would be walking away from the purchase...

            Comment


              #66
              Woah. A 3 yo in corrective wedges?? Already?? That’s unfortunate. Without seeing the feet I’ll assume the horse is/was NPA and must have had some dodgy farrier work up to this point to
              already have messed up feet at 3. It’s entirely possible the horse had caudal heel pain (or navicular syndrome) from bad angles, not actual navicular disease of the bone.

              Comment


                #67
                I think a seller should disclose any horse with corrective shoes up front before a shopper comes to see a horse. I sell Tb's right off the track and sometimes I have horses that just came in here barefoot and are extremely bruised from barefoot on hard ground. They often require pads to help them get through that stage for a few months. I often will xray though and provide those xrays (full set including navicular films) to buyers. I got a horse earlier this year that came to me with glue on shoes that had a wedge, pads and packing. He was sound! I got cocky and was like let's change to steel shoes and pads/packing. Well my farrier didn't get it quite right. Horse was extremely sore. I took him up to the vet hospital for xrays and their farrier to shoe him. He immediately was sound and his xrays were totally normal but he did still need glue on shoes for another cycle or two. I provide xrays, pictures of feet and report to anyone interested. He sold very quickly but there were plenty of people that didn't want to deal with it and I understand that.

                I don't mind dealing with corrective shoeing but I want the full set of xrays to know why we are doing it. If it is just to resolve some issues with angles then it's really not a big deal to me. As a seller, with regular shoes you can get good navicular films. Some vets absolutely require shoes to come off and I just have to suck it up. No, I don't love it because I have often just put shoes on a horse and pulling shoes can make them ouchy (I sell Tb's). If you have pads on the horse the navicular films are hard to get and the shoes really have to be pulled. If he didn't want to pull the shoes he should have taken radiographs before putting the shoes on the horse. That is what I do here because once I have the xrays done then I am not pulling the shoes off the horse.
                http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

                Comment


                  #68
                  Run.
                  1. 3yr old should not need corrective shoes, or help with soles in any form.
                  2. Seller should allow you to do any diagnostics needed to be comfortable. If they won't allow a particular view, or won't allow you to pull shoes I would be very suspicious. Pulling shoes to do prepurchase RADs is very common & should be expected by the person selling the horse. That is part of the deal when you go to move them on.
                  3. I don't believe there is another buyer, but if there is, I'd let the horse go to them & keep looking. There are lots of nice horses out there. - BTW want to be money that if you pass & tell him to sell to the other people, in a week or so he'll call you to let you know that sale "fell through" with some half-baked excuse?

                  Comment


                    #69
                    The OP passed on this horse like a kajillion posts ago y'all
                    ~Veronica
                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X