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Number of classes in a day

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    Number of classes in a day

    I'm new to North American show jumping / hunters and have been seeing some horses with show records of 4-5 classes in what looks like a given day? Is that the norm or am I just not reading these records properly and these are really multi-day shows?

    Asking because back where I was competing we would do no more than 2 in a day in a progressive sequence - say 1.10 for warm up and then 1.20 or so for each horse. If it was a multi day international event it would be 1 class per day per horse. One or two classes was so standard I'm not even sure any more than 2 was allowed. The one exception would be a pony on the leadline that many kids cruised on through their walk-trot-crossrail class.

    #2
    Yes, this is the norm, especially for hunters. You will typically see 2-3 over fences class a day plus a flat class for a one day event, or if the horse shows over a few days - 2 or 3 over fences as a warm up on Friday, 2 jump classes and maybe a medal class Saturday, then 2 jump classes, a flat, and a classic round Sunday.

    jumpers, less normal - especially over larger tracks. That tends to be more of what you’re used to where the horse may only jump one round per day. Lower jumpers you could see 2-3 rounds per day.

    Comment


      #3
      Not the norm at multi day shows as higher levels (in my area). Unfortunately common at lower levels.

      If you are looking at higher level results it may just be how the results were submitted; one day recognized shows are rare.

      One day schooling shows with a small ring? Doing two, 3 class per division, hunter divisions is fairly common, and in my opinion, not really an issue.

      Last year a big show offered a pay for the day type show (one fee for as many classes as you want to do), and people showed in 10+ classes a day. In my opinion, quite horrific horsemanship and an odd thing to encourage.
      Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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        #4
        Sometimes rated hunters will do 2 over fences (jumping) rounds and 2 flat classes in one day, especially if it’s a B rated and only 2 days long.
        It’s nowhere near as taxing on the horse as jumper rounds as there’s usually only 8-10 fences per jump round, and the flat classes are usually less than 5 minutes long.

        I personally do about 2 rounds in jumpers a day at shows. Any more than that is asking a lot of a horse, since you are jumping 10-14 fences then doing another 7ish for jump off. Maybe if I had a young baby who had a ton of energy to burn off I’d do a third.

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          #5
          My old hunter, that I sold to a junior believing he would be well cared for, at his last year, last year, did 23 over fences at 3'6-3'3" over a 5 day period at a AA show. He is no longer sound. Junior and her trainer still believe that he "wants" to continue to show so they are attempting to rehab so he can do it some more. Do I regret that decision, oh yes. Have I any respect for the BNT (in PNW), not any more. There should be limits on the amount of classes a trainer is allowed to enter a horse in at a show. However, no one would make money and that's all most trainers really care about. In my opinion to avoid flames.
          kenyagirl

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            Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks! Very helpful! I started searching and in most cases it's indeed a multi-day show where the jumper competed 2-3x a day (mostly 2x, up to 1.10m) and the hunter had 4-5 starts over 2 divisions in single day shows.

            Interestingly I also had a look at the fee schedule of one of the shows and it was pretty shocking! How do you afford it all ?

            I literally just watched the world cup qualifier back home where I used to groom for many years in a row as a teen and the entry fees including hay, shavings, vet checks and all came out cheaper than a show with pretty much no prize money here I actually double checked whether I didn't have the rose tinted glasses of the glorious past, but nope, I added up the numbers in this year's schedule (added a tack stall, lavish shavings, camper hookup etc.) and you'd be set for a 3 day FEI event for less than 500 EUR and that's with a total prize purse of >50k EUR across 9 classes

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by kenyarider View Post
              My old hunter, that I sold to a junior believing he would be well cared for, at his last year, last year, did 23 over fences at 3'6-3'3" over a 5 day period at a AA show. He is no longer sound. Junior and her trainer still believe that he "wants" to continue to show so they are attempting to rehab so he can do it some more. Do I regret that decision, oh yes. Have I any respect for the BNT (in PNW), not any more. There should be limits on the amount of classes a trainer is allowed to enter a horse in at a show. However, no one would make money and that's all most trainers really care about. In my opinion to avoid flames.
              That is INSANE
              ~Veronica
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

              Comment


                #8

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by kenyarider View Post
                  My old hunter, that I sold to a junior believing he would be well cared for, at his last year, last year, did 23 over fences at 3'6-3'3" over a 5 day period at a AA show. He is no longer sound. Junior and her trainer still believe that he "wants" to continue to show so they are attempting to rehab so he can do it some more. Do I regret that decision, oh yes. Have I any respect for the BNT (in PNW), not any more. There should be limits on the amount of classes a trainer is allowed to enter a horse in at a show. However, no one would make money and that's all most trainers really care about. In my opinion to avoid flames.
                  I'm having a hard time even coming up with that many classes they could do!!! But I guess if you do a pro division, a derby, a schooling division for the amateur, equitation and medal classes, the ammy division on the weekend, the weekend classic and the open warmup classes *maybe* you could get to that total (and I'm not totally sure even that list gets you there!!), but wow, I just can't imagine!!

                  To the OP, if the horse did 4-5 jumper classes, as others mentioned, odds are it was a multi-day show not a single day's classes, if it was a rated show.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Madison View Post

                    I'm having a hard time even coming up with that many classes they could do!!! But I guess if you do a pro division, a derby, a schooling division for the amateur, equitation and medal classes, the ammy division on the weekend, the weekend classic and the open warmup classes *maybe* you could get to that total (and I'm not totally sure even that list gets you there!!), but wow, I just can't imagine!!

                    To the OP, if the horse did 4-5 jumper classes, as others mentioned, odds are it was a multi-day show not a single day's classes, if it was a rated show.
                    My math is as follows: warm up day (one round), 4 low hunter O/F, a pro division (High performance hunters), junior low hunter division, derby, and 2 medal classes. I feel bad for my old friend.
                    kenyagirl

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tohorse View Post
                      Thanks! Very helpful! I started searching and in most cases it's indeed a multi-day show where the jumper competed 2-3x a day (mostly 2x, up to 1.10m) and the hunter had 4-5 starts over 2 divisions in single day shows.

                      Interestingly I also had a look at the fee schedule of one of the shows and it was pretty shocking! How do you afford it all ?

                      I literally just watched the world cup qualifier back home where I used to groom for many years in a row as a teen and the entry fees including hay, shavings, vet checks and all came out cheaper than a show with pretty much no prize money here I actually double checked whether I didn't have the rose tinted glasses of the glorious past, but nope, I added up the numbers in this year's schedule (added a tack stall, lavish shavings, camper hookup etc.) and you'd be set for a 3 day FEI event for less than 500 EUR and that's with a total prize purse of >50k EUR across 9 classes
                      It is why importing is so popular, in large part because it is so expensive to get show miles on them here. And somehow it is significantly worse for hunters/jumpers. The same number of days showing at the same venue the next weekend for quarter horses is 1/3 the price. I bought a horse I kept in Europe to show and remember laughing at the show bills. A weekend was like 250 euro total. (This was a long time ago but still)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I was researching a trainer (mid west) and was looking up the results of horses she was the trainer of on USEF. One horse did 28 classes at one show with 24 of them being over fences. Two weeks before the horse did 20 classes with 15 of them OF. They were not huge jumps. But holy crap, it was multiple riders and this was all done in five days. It was not uncommon for other horses she trained or showed herself to do 12-15 classes with with 10-13 of those OF.

                        I believe that there should be some sort of limit to the number of classes a horse can do at one show.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I wish there was a rule about how many classes or a steward would step up and say something after they see the same horse entered all over the place. It is easy enough to start at the show office and go tell the trainer to make another plan. If it was done discretely, what trainer would go around bad mouthing the steward who told them that 20 classes was too many?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by bingbingbing View Post
                            I was researching a trainer (mid west) and was looking up the results of horses she was the trainer of on USEF. One horse did 28 classes at one show with 24 of them being over fences. Two weeks before the horse did 20 classes with 15 of them OF. They were not huge jumps. But holy crap, it was multiple riders and this was all done in five days. It was not uncommon for other horses she trained or showed herself to do 12-15 classes with with 10-13 of those OF.

                            I believe that there should be some sort of limit to the number of classes a horse can do at one show.
                            15 over fence classes over five days equals three courses per day.
                            That is less than most lesson horses do each day.

                            I have not done a hunter show in many years, but three courses per day does not seem like something that should cause so much exasperation. (Before you pounce on me, my horse never did this much.)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                              15 over fence classes over five days equals three courses per day.
                              That is less than most lesson horses do each day.

                              I have not done a hunter show in many years, but three courses per day does not seem like something that should cause so much exasperation. (Before you pounce on me, my horse never did this much.)
                              I am not pouncing, but the horse did 24 OF classes in five days, that is almost five OF classes a day. That does not include warm up, 4 flat classes and whatever prep it had done to get to the ring and then there is always a lot of time standing down at the ring. That is an awful lot.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                                15 over fence classes over five days equals three courses per day.
                                That is less than most lesson horses do each day.

                                I have not done a hunter show in many years, but three courses per day does not seem like something that should cause so much exasperation. (Before you pounce on me, my horse never did this much.)
                                Yeah but lesson horses are rarely jumping full courses at 3'6 and that doesn't account for the additional stresses causes by being at a show (warming up, trailering, waiting for your turn to go, lack of turnout, etc.) That much jumping at that level at a show is really a tremendous amount of work for a horse It's not really the same as doing lessons at home over low fences. Which is not to say lesson horses don't work hard, they do. It's just not comparable. What kenyarider is describing is a truly outrageous amount to expect a horse to do regularly and stay sound.
                                Last edited by vxf111; Sep. 7, 2020, 12:16 PM.
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  We've had many threads on here from folks complaining that they can't find a lesson barn that lets them progress above two foot six on school horses, and that above that they need to get into leasing or owning.

                                  I doubt there are many lesson horses out there that regularly jump 3 feet, let alone in multiple lessons on one day. Also it's rare that a jumping lesson includes a full course.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

                                    Yeah but lesson horses are rarely jumping full courses at 3'6 and that doesn't account for the additional stresses causes by being at a show (warming up, trailering, waiting for your turn to go, lack of turnout, etc.) That much jumping at that level at a show is really a tremendous amount of work for a horse It's not really the same as doing lessons at home over low fences. Which is not to say lesson horses don't work hard, they do. It's just not comparable. What kenyarider is describing is a truly outrageous amount to expect a horse to do regularly and stay sound.
                                    The person I quoted does not ever say that the horses were doing 3'6", so I did not make that leap that every horse they found that did that many courses was doing higher jumps instead of doing some low stuff.

                                    For the record, I too frown on over working horses. I was just pointing out that other horses do more, or at least as much, every day of their life.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I used to ride with a trainer who had immigrated to Canada from Switzerland. Initially he was appalled at the number of classes that horses were doing until he actually went to some shows and realized it wasn't as taxing on the horses compared to what he was imagining.

                                      A huge part of how much a horse works at a show is dependent on their prep/warm up. Both of my geldings have been there, done that. We usually walk to the ring, flat for 10-15 minutes to warm up, trot a crossrail, jump a vertical and an oxer off each rein, go into the ring and show back to back hunter trips. The undersaddle *might* last 10 minutes, usually less. One gelding isn't a great mover so we don't always do the u/s.
                                      At most I'm on the horse for an hour, usually it's more like 30 minutes. They typically don't even break a sweat. It's less work than they do at home. Fewer jumps than an average lesson.

                                      The green beans may require some schooling classes, a longer warm up, or a lunge in the morning to get the bucks out.

                                      Definitely fewer classes/day in the jumper ring. Trips are rarely, if ever, back to back, which requires additional warm ups. Courses are longer. If it isn't an immediate jump off than that's another warm up. The speed, twists and turns are also more strenuous than a simple hunter course. Our trainer usually lets jumpers do 2-3 classes/day over a weekend show, or 1-2 classes per day for a week long show when the jumps are under 1.10m. Anything higher and they're usually only doing 1 class/day or less.

                                      There will always be exceptions, a bad horseman is a bad horseman (or woman). If they've consistently got horses showing 5+ trips/day for weeks on end, then there's probably a whack of other issues as well.
                                      Any trainer that I've worked for or ridden with is careful about the number of classes per day, and isn't afraid to scratch if needed. They typically try to save their good horses as they get older, ie just showing in special classes or at their favourite facilities.
                                      Current trainer actually kicked someone out last year because the owner was always pushing to do more and more classes. Trainer didn't want to be associated with them, or the inevitable break down.

                                      One facility in Ontario hosts A shows and over the last few years has started hosting a few B level shows as well. Sometimes they have everyone pay a flat rate, but they limit the number of classes that you can enter.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Our local show association limits a horse to 7 o/f classes per day (2 day shows). People are pretty good at sticking to this, and as they're local shows, there's not much beyond 3' anyway.
                                        Willow- http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1125720084

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