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    Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by SolarFlare View Post
    I assume you're in the US - does your Purina Senior down there have Athlete in it? Ours in Canada does, and my horse goes wacko on Athlete, so that's another possibility. He saw dead people too! (Also, this was the "new and improved" reformulated Athlete that is supposed to be lower NSC and not make horses go wacko, but...we tried it twice, and both times within two days he was nuts. Took him off and within about 4 days he was back to normal).
    Yes, I’m in the US. I have never heard of Athlete. I also mentioned above, this is a main reason I dislike purina...I cannot easily find ingredients in their grain. Only analysis of vitamins and minerals. I want to know exactly what I’m feeding my horse.

    I’m going to look into this out of curiosity. I really am looking forward to leaving for the sake of getting my horses off this grain. This may have nothing to do with either of my horses behavior, but after doing so much research I don’t like what’s in the feed.

    Comment


      #22
      ThoroughbredLuver I have literally just been through this exact same situation with my horse, only he was 11 turning 12, so not a youngster. I can almost bet that the feed is the culprit, and getting him on anything that is a lower NSC will help. You mention your BO is willing to get Purina Wellsolve, and that might be a good option if you don't want to have to provide your own feed. I'm with you, I love Triple Crown, especially their Senior feed, but it might be easier if you are willing to try him on the Wellsolve. I bet that big drop in NSC will do wonders.

      Here's my story. In October I moved my 11yo gelding from my home farm (which I sold) to a nice little private barn with a few boarders. I'd always fed either just straight forage with a fat supplement or Triple Crown Sr. My horse wasn't ridden much at all (though he could be ridden and was occasionally) and was an easy keeper. Always calm and laid back.

      Moved to new farm and he was a bit "up" because he'd lived at my place since he was a yearling. But he settled in easily and when I started riding him there (getting back into it now that we're at a farm with people who ride and nice places to ride), and he was his usual, quiet, dependable self. I knew the farm feeds Tribute, and my understanding was they fed the Essential K ration balancer...which IS what my horse got initially. I didn't ride frequently at first...on the weekends only, and usually just one day of the weekend. I was busy in November moving myself to a new house, but continued riding at least one day most weekends if the weather was okay. Did this through November, December, January...

      About February, I started noticing a change in him. More tension when I rode. More alert and wary of things. I chalked it up to cold weather and it was sporadic enough that I didn't worry too much.

      In March, I was noticing him sporadically being spooky, and his manure was loose with oats in it (uh oh). Still, he was reliable under saddle at first. I started riding more and more once COVID hit and I was working from home and had more flexibility and time. Around this time, I noticed he'd been losing weight too (barn stopped feeding hay too quickly once pastures just barely started popping up). BO increased is grain, and I discovered he was getting the high-octane Tribute Seniority, which is chock full of oats and has an NSC of 22% (eek!) He was also starting to have back trouble around this time (I'd gotten a new saddle in December).

      By April, he was a hot mess. He was spooking at things he'd seen hundreds of times on our rides and was absolutely petrified of the barn, which he'd been wary of ever since we'd moved there, but had gotten used to. (He lives outside 24/7 like all the horses at this farm).

      Eventually he got to the point that I couldn't get him anywhere NEAR the barn, he was a snorting, wide-eyed, wound-up, tense mess from the moment he left his pasture. Absolutely insane. Acted like he was on fire.

      I immediately thought of the feed, and began working out a plan with my BO to get him the heck off that stuff. She agreed to switch not just him but the entire barn off of the Seniority and onto Tribute's Kalm N EZ, which has an NSC of 13% and no grain at all. Before we settled on this switch, like you, I was buying my own Triple Crown Senior because I knew he did fine on that.

      Unfortunately for my guy, he also had back issues, and the chiro/vet came out to do an adjustment and acupuncture on him (his first time having it done). He was still cranked up on the feed at this time, and was nervous through the whole process, which probably wasn't good. She advised four days off after his adjustment because his back had been in terrible spasms and he was out in so many places. During the days following his adjustment, he was a total lunatic if/when I tried to take him in or near the barn. He'd get spooked and just couldn't recover from it. It was like once he got upset, it was impossible for him to settle again. And I could literally see his back drop and tighten and stay that way. Poor guy.

      The chiro/vet had recommended Magnesium to me, and I had a whole bag of SmartCalm Ultra (which has as much Mag in it as MagRestore, plus a nice side of tryptophan just for good measure) in the horse trailer, so I got it out and we started him on it the day after his adjustment.

      It has been a little over a month, and he is now on Kalm N EZ with the SmartCalm Ultra supplement, and he is himself again. He still looks at things and I'm not saying he'll never spook, but it's a much more normal kind of reaction instead of completely losing his mind over something. He's also recently had his saddle fitted, and that has brought him back to normal under saddle (he'd gotten ridiculously tense and rushy).

      All of this to say, definitely change his feed. And the Wellsolve may be just what you need and a good compromise with your BO. Or if you're fine with providing the TC Senior, then do that. I bet you'll see a difference pretty quickly.

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by RhythmNCruise View Post
        ThoroughbredLuver I have literally just been through this exact same situation with my horse, only he was 11 turning 12, so not a youngster. I can almost bet that the feed is the culprit, and getting him on anything that is a lower NSC will help. You mention your BO is willing to get Purina Wellsolve, and that might be a good option if you don't want to have to provide your own feed. I'm with you, I love Triple Crown, especially their Senior feed, but it might be easier if you are willing to try him on the Wellsolve. I bet that big drop in NSC will do wonders.

        Here's my story. In October I moved my 11yo gelding from my home farm (which I sold) to a nice little private barn with a few boarders. I'd always fed either just straight forage with a fat supplement or Triple Crown Sr. My horse wasn't ridden much at all (though he could be ridden and was occasionally) and was an easy keeper. Always calm and laid back.

        Moved to new farm and he was a bit "up" because he'd lived at my place since he was a yearling. But he settled in easily and when I started riding him there (getting back into it now that we're at a farm with people who ride and nice places to ride), and he was his usual, quiet, dependable self. I knew the farm feeds Tribute, and my understanding was they fed the Essential K ration balancer...which IS what my horse got initially. I didn't ride frequently at first...on the weekends only, and usually just one day of the weekend. I was busy in November moving myself to a new house, but continued riding at least one day most weekends if the weather was okay. Did this through November, December, January...

        About February, I started noticing a change in him. More tension when I rode. More alert and wary of things. I chalked it up to cold weather and it was sporadic enough that I didn't worry too much.

        In March, I was noticing him sporadically being spooky, and his manure was loose with oats in it (uh oh). Still, he was reliable under saddle at first. I started riding more and more once COVID hit and I was working from home and had more flexibility and time. Around this time, I noticed he'd been losing weight too (barn stopped feeding hay too quickly once pastures just barely started popping up). BO increased is grain, and I discovered he was getting the high-octane Tribute Seniority, which is chock full of oats and has an NSC of 22% (eek!) He was also starting to have back trouble around this time (I'd gotten a new saddle in December).

        By April, he was a hot mess. He was spooking at things he'd seen hundreds of times on our rides and was absolutely petrified of the barn, which he'd been wary of ever since we'd moved there, but had gotten used to. (He lives outside 24/7 like all the horses at this farm).

        Eventually he got to the point that I couldn't get him anywhere NEAR the barn, he was a snorting, wide-eyed, wound-up, tense mess from the moment he left his pasture. Absolutely insane. Acted like he was on fire.

        I immediately thought of the feed, and began working out a plan with my BO to get him the heck off that stuff. She agreed to switch not just him but the entire barn off of the Seniority and onto Tribute's Kalm N EZ, which has an NSC of 13% and no grain at all. Before we settled on this switch, like you, I was buying my own Triple Crown Senior because I knew he did fine on that.

        Unfortunately for my guy, he also had back issues, and the chiro/vet came out to do an adjustment and acupuncture on him (his first time having it done). He was still cranked up on the feed at this time, and was nervous through the whole process, which probably wasn't good. She advised four days off after his adjustment because his back had been in terrible spasms and he was out in so many places. During the days following his adjustment, he was a total lunatic if/when I tried to take him in or near the barn. He'd get spooked and just couldn't recover from it. It was like once he got upset, it was impossible for him to settle again. And I could literally see his back drop and tighten and stay that way. Poor guy.

        The chiro/vet had recommended Magnesium to me, and I had a whole bag of SmartCalm Ultra (which has as much Mag in it as MagRestore, plus a nice side of tryptophan just for good measure) in the horse trailer, so I got it out and we started him on it the day after his adjustment.

        It has been a little over a month, and he is now on Kalm N EZ with the SmartCalm Ultra supplement, and he is himself again. He still looks at things and I'm not saying he'll never spook, but it's a much more normal kind of reaction instead of completely losing his mind over something. He's also recently had his saddle fitted, and that has brought him back to normal under saddle (he'd gotten ridiculously tense and rushy).

        All of this to say, definitely change his feed. And the Wellsolve may be just what you need and a good compromise with your BO. Or if you're fine with providing the TC Senior, then do that. I bet you'll see a difference pretty quickly.
        Thank you for sharing your experience! I’m happy to hear your horse got better! I just have this gut feeling this is not normal young horse behavior and something to do with feed. I talked to someone with triple crown and I think I’m going to try the triple crown ration balancer gold. It has stuff for stomach ulcers so I think it’d be a good option. One bag will last a month so I can justify buying that. He will need something else for the extra calories, so I’m considering either the wellsolve for the time being or just biting the bullet and getting a bag of TC senior gold. Will also last a month with just him. Once we get closer to moving, my mare will switch over also. I did the calorie calcs and both horses will be fed half the amount with receiving the same calories and more vitamins and minerals. Im super excited to make the switch. I really like everything I’ve read about the new gold line.

        Comment


          #24
          Which Wellsolve is it? There are a couple different formulas. I assume the LS? It would probably be better than the senior for the time being. I'm more of a fan of TC products as well. The TC Senior Gold would be a higher fat feed than the Wellsolve.

          Have you considered ulcers? Since he's had a big life change. Ulcers made my last horse extra spooky when he was around that age.

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by IPEsq View Post
            Which Wellsolve is it? There are a couple different formulas. I assume the LS? It would probably be better than the senior for the time being. I'm more of a fan of TC products as well. The TC Senior Gold would be a higher fat feed than the Wellsolve.

            Have you considered ulcers? Since he's had a big life change. Ulcers made my last horse extra spooky when he was around that age.
            We did a trial treatment and no change. Not to say it’s a for sure thing. I think a good gut health supplement would help him regardless.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #26
              Update!!!

              talked to both Triple Crown Rep and vet. Both my horses are going to switch to the TC ration balancer gold and then get senior gold as need for extra calories. Keeping calorie intake the same as now, neither horse would be getting the recommended 5lbs of grain to meet daily nutrient requirements, so they are going to be getting the recommended 1.5 lbs ration balancer daily plus 1lb (gelding) and 3 lbs (mare) of senior gold. It has the supplement to help with stomach ulcers so I’m excited to add that as the mare is currently on outlast. I am also really excited because NSCs will be cut in half for both horses!

              Comment


                #27
                The Purina website will have information and ingredients about their feeds and how best to use them. There is a tag on the bags that give some information. Any of the feed companies would have a nutritionist you can get help from and probably a rep in your area to explain things. I've never had any issues with Purina and I feed Strategy, Senior and Ultium and have for years.

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by TKR View Post
                  The Purina website will have information and ingredients about their feeds and how best to use them. There is a tag on the bags that give some information. Any of the feed companies would have a nutritionist you can get help from and probably a rep in your area to explain things. I've never had any issues with Purina and I feed Strategy, Senior and Ultium and have for years.
                  I’ve done sooo much research it’s exhausting! Purina doesn’t list ingredients on website and I also had a hard time finding calories per lb. All this information I had to really dig for and/or ask their rep. I know so many like and use Purina, but I just don’t think it s a right fit for me at the moment. I really liked TC in the past and all information is easy to find on their website and just made it easy for me to find an alternative to give a try.

                  Sounds like you’ve had some good success in feeding it for such a long time. I am really glad to hear the people that have had positive results. Makes me feel better in what I’ve been giving my horses over the last year or two.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    In answer to your question corn is well known for going to their heads.
                    It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by TKR View Post
                      The Purina website will have information and ingredients about their feeds and how best to use them. There is a tag on the bags that give some information. Any of the feed companies would have a nutritionist you can get help from and probably a rep in your area to explain things. I've never had any issues with Purina and I feed Strategy, Senior and Ultium and have for years.
                      I have never had problems with any Purina grain I’ve used. Love their products. I actually have one horse that I want to give more energy to, but I am easy keeper so it’s a balancing act to make sure he has the energy he needs but doesn’t gain weight.
                      im talking gains weight looking at food. I was able to cut my hard keeper

                      call your Purina dealer or the Purina call center or download their app. Ingredients aren’t hard to find ( tags are on the feed bags) and break down of nutrients on website/ app/ feed bag

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Will your barn let you buy your own bags of feed at your expense? I've been buying alfalfa cubes for my oldster and the barn has been feeding it without any problem.

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #32
                          Originally posted by betonbill View Post
                          Will your barn let you buy your own bags of feed at your expense? I've been buying alfalfa cubes for my oldster and the barn has been feeding it without any problem.
                          Originally no, but I just got it cleared today so that’s actually what I’m going to do. I have two horses and realistically I can’t afford it long term, but since they will be moving by the end of the year to my own place, I’m going to switch over to triple crown now. I’m super excited to try the new gold line

                          Comment

                            Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by TXnGA View Post

                            I have never had problems with any Purina grain I’ve used. Love their products. I actually have one horse that I want to give more energy to, but I am easy keeper so it’s a balancing act to make sure he has the energy he needs but doesn’t gain weight.
                            im talking gains weight looking at food. I was able to cut my hard keeper

                            call your Purina dealer or the Purina call center or download their app. Ingredients aren’t hard to find ( tags are on the feed bags) and break down of nutrients on website/ app/ feed bag
                            I don’t know why I didn’t think to check tags for ingredients. I hardly ever look at the bags since they are full care. Maybe I’ll call if the new grain doesn’t work, but I’m going to give triple crown a try and am very excited!

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                              Yes, I’m in the US. I have never heard of Athlete. I also mentioned above, this is a main reason I dislike purina...I cannot easily find ingredients in their grain. Only analysis of vitamins and minerals. I want to know exactly what I’m feeding my horse.

                              I’m going to look into this out of curiosity. I really am looking forward to leaving for the sake of getting my horses off this grain. This may have nothing to do with either of my horses behavior, but after doing so much research I don’t like what’s in the feed.
                              I know you've got a new plan, but just wanted to follow up that the US Purina Senior shows it has "Amplify" in it. We don't have Amplify in Canada, but it looks like you don't have "Athlete" in the US. According to the descriptions, they sound similar but the analysis isn't quite the same for both. Anyway, it's still a possibility that it could be what's amping him up. I don't know what's in the Athlete that makes my horse crazy - he's been on flax, fat supplements, etc before (which are all in Athlete) but there is SOMETHING in it that doesn't agree with him.
                              I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by SolarFlare View Post

                                I know you've got a new plan, but just wanted to follow up that the US Purina Senior shows it has "Amplify" in it. We don't have Amplify in Canada, but it looks like you don't have "Athlete" in the US. According to the descriptions, they sound similar but the analysis isn't quite the same for both. Anyway, it's still a possibility that it could be what's amping him up. I don't know what's in the Athlete that makes my horse crazy - he's been on flax, fat supplements, etc before (which are all in Athlete) but there is SOMETHING in it that doesn't agree with him.
                                I saw the amplify when I was reading the brochure packet yesterday and actually wondered the same thing! Even though I am switching, I am still curious what could be amping him up more. Someone else mentioned the corn and I’ve been thinking that for some time now. Even if I never know, I’m hoping at least switching I’ll get to see if it is the grain. Even my steady mare that literally doesn’t spook was quite on edge yesterday. The last few months they have been having these up and downs days that are just uncharacteristic.

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                                  Originally no, but I just got it cleared today so that’s actually what I’m going to do. I have two horses and realistically I can’t afford it long term, but since they will be moving by the end of the year to my own place, I’m going to switch over to triple crown now. I’m super excited to try the new gold line

                                  if you are buying your own grain, perhaps ask for a reduction in board costs since their grain is included in the monthly board costs. At least that is what I would do if I’m buying my own grain.

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by TXnGA View Post


                                    if you are buying your own grain, perhaps ask for a reduction in board costs since their grain is included in the monthly board costs. At least that is what I would do if I’m buying my own grain.
                                    Already tried. They won’t

                                    Thankfully this is only short term until my horses come home. I’m not going to transition my mare quite yet since she’s not doing horrible on it to save some money. I calculated it out and it is only an extra $60 a month, so I can swing it for just a few short months.

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                                      I saw the amplify when I was reading the brochure packet yesterday and actually wondered the same thing! Even though I am switching, I am still curious what could be amping him up more. Someone else mentioned the corn and I’ve been thinking that for some time now. Even if I never know, I’m hoping at least switching I’ll get to see if it is the grain. Even my steady mare that literally doesn’t spook was quite on edge yesterday. The last few months they have been having these up and downs days that are just uncharacteristic.
                                      Up and down days I call walking a tightrope. Thd horse is near the realm of overfed and Underworked which talks about the ratio of feed to work.

                                      Your best bet is to take off grain until the tight rope feeling has gone.

                                      Start again with grains with zero corn and oats.

                                      Swap feeds slowly.
                                      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

                                      Comment

                                        Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post

                                        Up and down days I call walking a tightrope. Thd horse is near the realm of overfed and Underworked which talks about the ratio of feed to work.

                                        Your best bet is to take off grain until the tight rope feeling has gone.

                                        Start again with grains with zero corn and oats.

                                        Swap feeds slowly.
                                        Vet had no problems with calorie to workload. My mare cannot just abruptly go off grain anyways. She’s a thoroughbred and will lose weight quickly. She’s been getting less calories than the other grain she was on and working more. Plus this horse has been in purina for the last year and a half. If she had too many calories she’d be leaping in the air. I’ve had her for 10 years and know the signs of excess energy in this mare. Plus she is ulcer prone, I think going on and off grain will be stressful for her and she needs to stay on outlast.

                                        The gelding on the other hand has been on it for only 6 months. I have continued to drop geldings grain by 5 lbs total less than when he came to be. He was actually better on more grain. The up and down days have only just begun in the last few months. I am very cautious about calories to work, since I’ve owned a hot thoroughbred for years, and hence cutting his grain down was the first thing I did.

                                        I don’t think taking them off grain is an option here. I don’t think it’d work in the situation since I saw no difference in huge reductions of grain.

                                        Horse will be slowly switched to new grain. Thanks for the idea though.

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          So two things. One - 4 to 5 YO warmbloods can be a challenge in my experience. They think they know a lot more than they do and they get pretty cocky. Second, and this may not work for you, but I might suggest you take away all the grain. We are a barn full of young warmbloods in training and not one of ours is on grain. We do soaked beet pulp in a.m with some ration balancer and a cup of ultimate finish. In the afternoon, it’s beetpulp and soaked alfalfa cubes with some trace minerals. Ours are in strenuous training, show regularly in the hunters and jumper and are in hunter weight :-) and look absolutely fantastic. Also, it’s always my go to if they get suddenly spooky, do a lyme test.

                                          Comment

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