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Grain

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    Grain

    I bought a 3 coming 4 year old warmblood earlier this year. The horse got broke out in late January. When I got him in March he was wonderful. Happy to go forward and super quiet. Things that were new he liked to touch and didn’t have any big spooks. He came to me on 4 plus pounds of tribute grain each feeding, fed 2x daily (I think kalm n EZ or Kalm Ultra? Can’t remember). I put him on 3 lbs of purina equine senior because that’s what my barn feeds and I am not allowed to feed differently. Was great the first 2-3 months. Now he is getting spookier as time goes on. Definitely less brave than when he came. Doesn’t really do anything horrible other than a shoulder drop and scoot, but seems to be doing it more often. He is getting more turn out and now is on 1.5 pounds am and pm because he got really fat really quickly and has been on this amount for the last month. There are days he is super quiet, some not so much. I do know this is typical young horse behavior, but I am questioning if the grain could be contributing to the increased spookiness. Something in my gut is telling me I am missing something nutrition wise. All physical things have been ruled out.

    Has anyone had any issues with purina making a horse spooky and weird? My other mare has been triple crown for ages and I think she can be a little more hot on purina. I find whole corn kernels in the grain which I don’t like. I have the opportunity to change grains when I move my horses, so I’ll be putting my mare back on TC senior and thinking of putting him on it too. Any better grain that might be better suited for him?

    I am thinking I will get a nutritionist out when we move and get a specialized feeding plan for both. Has anyone ever used one? What were your experiences and what should I expect?

    **updated post to focus more on grain/feeding options since I have the opportunity to switch when horses get moved **
    Last edited by ThoroughbredLuver; Jun. 26, 2020, 09:50 PM.

    #2
    Purina Senior has about 19% NCS (sugar), whereas TC Senior has only about 12%. That's a pretty big difference! I far prefer TC Senior over Purina Senior.
    Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.

    Comment


      #3
      Bad choice for a young, still growing youngster! I have my 3 year old warmblood on Purina Ultium Competition. She was on the Growth Ultium until a few months ago. Senior is designed for older horses NOT growing young horses! What you are describing are simply young horse things. They like to look at things and anything different is scary to many. They can be extremely lazy and then get very forward. It's a part of their growing up and learning! You should be working with a person who has experience with bringing along a young horse and giving you tips on establishing trust and confidence in this youngster for you as well as respect. You can also work on some desensitization with tarps and the like -- each thing presented slowly with great patience and praise. Don't force! You can build that trust as they accept new things - like walking over a piece of plywood, you can use pool noodles for them to step over or put on the sides of their stall door so they have to walk past with them touching -- but they need to SEE them and deal with them in a non-threatening way at first. I like Purina alot and have worked with their local rep/nutritionist and the vet/nutritionist at their Missouri facility. They are very helpful and informative. I've raised alot of babies on their feed and had many live to well over 30 on their Senior. You just need to use what is correct for this age horse. Good luck!

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by TKR View Post
        Bad choice for a young, still growing youngster! I have my 3 year old warmblood on Purina Ultium Competition. She was on the Growth Ultium until a few months ago. Senior is designed for older horses NOT growing young horses! What you are describing are simply young horse things. They like to look at things and anything different is scary to many. They can be extremely lazy and then get very forward. It's a part of their growing up and learning! You should be working with a person who has experience with bringing along a young horse and giving you tips on establishing trust and confidence in this youngster for you as well as respect. You can also work on some desensitization with tarps and the like -- each thing presented slowly with great patience and praise. Don't force! You can build that trust as they accept new things - like walking over a piece of plywood, you can use pool noodles for them to step over or put on the sides of their stall door so they have to walk past with them touching -- but they need to SEE them and deal with them in a non-threatening way at first. I like Purina alot and have worked with their local rep/nutritionist and the vet/nutritionist at their Missouri facility. They are very helpful and informative. I've raised alot of babies on their feed and had many live to well over 30 on their Senior. You just need to use what is correct for this age horse. Good luck!
        I have experience with many youngsters, but I’ve never had one quite as quirky like him. He’s actually very brave about things touching him and what not. He was started and brought up very very correctly from the breeder. I am already doing some of the things you mentioned, I can throw about anything at him and he doesn’t care, I actually do it frequently with saddle pads and other things I can rub on him. The issue lies when I’m riding. He used to be very quiet and the spooky and peakiness has only become an issue when riding recently. It’s not really an issue because you’re right he is young and just needs to get more confident, more so I think it’s odd it has gotten worse and I want to make him the best he can be.

        On the other hand my barn only feeds two purina grains and this was the better of the two. Also my vet said he was fine being on it and has been helping me get him on a good balance. Mine will be getting switched off purina regardless so I will find something more suitable for his age, I personally don’t like the feed, but was curious if anyone has had any experience making their horses spooky or hot. I think it’s making both my horses just kind of over all weird. Im glad you had a great experience feeding purina though!

        Thanks for the tips!
        Last edited by ThoroughbredLuver; Jun. 26, 2020, 09:48 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Why don’t you simply putting him on what he was eating when you got him? That way you can rule out grain as a potential issue.

          He’s pretty green if he’s only been under saddle for 6 months. He’s going to go through a lot of stages. Seems kinda early to be looking for a magic supplement.

          Why is he on magnesium? I’ve seem horses get nutty on mag; it’s to be used if they have a deficiency. Have you tested him for a deficiency?

          Comment


            #6
            JB and op you’d get better responses in the health care forum.

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by TheMoo View Post
              JB and op you’d get better responses in the health care forum.
              Honestly, not sure why I put it in here. I think my brain left for the weekend faster than the rest of me

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by punchy View Post
                Why don’t you simply putting him on what he was eating when you got him? That way you can rule out grain as a potential issue.

                He’s pretty green if he’s only been under saddle for 6 months. He’s going to go through a lot of stages. Seems kinda early to be looking for a magic supplement.

                Why is he on magnesium? I’ve seem horses get nutty on mag; it’s to be used if they have a deficiency. Have you tested him for a deficiency?

                Unfortunately my current barn won’t feed anything but purina and the two grains they offer. I originally wanted to put him back on it, but that’s just not an option right now. When I leave I will change grains, but I will most likely find something suitable for him in the Triple Crown line. I really like the line of feeds and my mare is going to be changing back to the TC senior feed.

                I agree, he is very young and very green and a lot of this is just baby stuff and will get better with maturing. I should clarify I really am not looking for a supplement at this time, but just curious if other people resorted to supplements. I know a lot of people used depo for this. I wouldn’t personally use it, but this is truly just a curious question.

                Interesting you’ve seen some horses get nutty on mag. Yes, he was showing symptoms of magnesium deficiency so we just tried it.

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  **I should clarify, I know this is typical green horse behavior, but I just have this gut feeling I am missing something with this horse. He is so nice and I just want to make sure I am doing him justice and setting him up for success. It just bothers me that he wasn’t like this when he came. Beginning to wonder if maybe I’m creating a problem that really isn’t there and I should just ignore my thoughts and keep moving forward. He really is a wonderful horse and aside from the occasionally weird spookiness he is every bit of perfect.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post
                    **I should clarify, I know this is typical green horse behavior, but I just have this gut feeling I am missing something with this horse. He is so nice and I just want to make sure I am doing him justice and setting him up for success. It just bothers me that he wasn’t like this when he came. Beginning to wonder if maybe I’m creating a problem that really isn’t there and I should just ignore my thoughts and keep moving forward. He really is a wonderful horse and aside from the occasionally weird spookiness he is every bit of perfect.
                    Could be something you changed, but also the stage between 3 and 4 comes with personality changes. 3 year olds are babies, they listen to you, albeit with short attention spans. 4 year olds are teenagers. They ask why and look for ways to get out of listening to you.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yeah, four year olds can be over-confident jerks, which comes as a shock after the sweet, curious, biddable threes!

                      On the other hand, that is a lot of sugar to be feeding him. I had my extremely growthy, over-sized Dutch WB on TC Senior from the time he was 2 until he got to 5 and that suited him very well. I would switch him to something else as soon as you can and see if it makes the difference.
                      You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil

                      Comment

                        Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by foursocks View Post
                        Yeah, four year olds can be over-confident jerks, which comes as a shock after the sweet, curious, biddable threes!

                        On the other hand, that is a lot of sugar to be feeding him. I had my extremely growthy, over-sized Dutch WB on TC Senior from the time he was 2 until he got to 5 and that suited him very well. I would switch him to something else as soon as you can and see if it makes the difference.
                        Thank you! Once I get more of a time line on when I’m moving and can let the BO know, I am going to switch grains. Hoping to change at least a month or two before making the move so a) there’s less changes all at once and b) I can get a true representation on if the grain works.

                        I really dislike the grain he is on. I am going to do TC senior. I’ve heard it’s similar to the growth formula and can be used for all stages of life. Lower NSCs and overall better/higher nutrients. Hoping this grain change can all start here soon.

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          I expressed my issues with the grain and BO offered to buy purina wellsolve because another boarder needed it. I’ve never fed a “non grain” grain. Do you guys think is a worse option? NSCs are a lot lower.

                          Also since my horses are going to be moved out of state by the end of the year, I will be switching to TC Senior before the move and keeping them on it at the new place. I think that might be too many grain changes and I don’t know enough about wellsolve to make a jump. I am considering leaving him on his current grain and cutting back another 1/2 pound for the time being since it’s not going to be too much longer. He is out on grass a lot longer and I don’t want to see him gain anymore weight. He came to me as sort of a hard keeper and is now so easy.

                          I do want to note: I am planning to get a nutritionist out once they are moved to analyze feeding program based on needs and what I can provide them in the new area.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Purina Strategy makes my gelding lose his freaking mind. I'm not kidding. I had him on Ultium for a bit and he was fine, but Strategy was like he was on drugs or something. I swear he saw dead people. I'm not sure how Senior compares with Strategy, but I have heard of other horses having issues with Strategy as well.

                            Make sure that TC is available where you will be moving since it is not available in all markets.
                            Rhode Islands are red;
                            North Hollands are blue.
                            Sorry my thoroughbreds
                            Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I believe that the minimum recommended feeding amount for Purina Sr is something like 7 lbs per day for a 1000-lb horse, isn’t it? So if you can only feed a couple of pounds of Sr a day for calorie reasons, you’re not feeding the recommended amount of vitamins and minerals. A ration balancer is usually recommended for this sort of situation.

                              That may or may not be the/a reason for the behavioral issues you’re experiencing, but it would be better in general to feed according to the product specs. Perhaps that would be helpful in making your request to the current BO.

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by RacetrackReject View Post
                                Purina Strategy makes my gelding lose his freaking mind. I'm not kidding. I had him on Ultium for a bit and he was fine, but Strategy was like he was on drugs or something. I swear he saw dead people. I'm not sure how Senior compares with Strategy, but I have heard of other horses having issues with Strategy as well.

                                Make sure that TC is available where you will be moving since it is not available in all markets.
                                That is the only other grain they offer at the barn and I knew to stay *FAR* away from this grain. Seen many in the barn get very lit off this grain. Figured it was the less of two evils to feed of the two options.

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Redlei44 View Post
                                  I believe that the minimum recommended feeding amount for Purina Sr is something like 7 lbs per day for a 1000-lb horse, isn’t it? So if you can only feed a couple of pounds of Sr a day for calorie reasons, you’re not feeding the recommended amount of vitamins and minerals. A ration balancer is usually recommended for this sort of situation.

                                  That may or may not be the/a reason for the behavioral issues you’re experiencing, but it would be better in general to feed according to the product specs. Perhaps that would be helpful in making your request to the current BO.
                                  Super valid point!! This is where I figured a good nutritionist would come into play. I’ve always owned good keepers so I don’t know a whole lot about ration balancers. My vet told me to keep protein around 12% since my gelding isn’t doing enough for a higher protein need. I notice a lot of ration balancer are high protein so I kind of thought to stay away from them. Maybe I’ll discuss with vet for a better feeding program with him knowing they will be moving to Florida by the end of the year. With having grass a good portion of the year, a ration balancer is probably the way to go. With the way he is right now, I don’t foresee him needing more than 3-4 pounds total a day.

                                  My mare on the other hand pretty much sticks around 3 lbs 2x a day regardless of whether she is on grass or hay changes.

                                  Thanks for your input...gives me something else to think about. I’m always quick to supplement because I’ve never had options to feed my own grain so I’d rather avoid this by feeding a better balanced diet to begin with.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ThoroughbredLuver View Post

                                    That is the only other grain they offer at the barn and I knew to stay *FAR* away from this grain. Seen many in the barn get very lit off this grain. Figured it was the less of two evils to feed of the two options.
                                    Out of curiosity, is it regular white bag Strategy? There's another option called Strategy Healthy Edge that is lower in sugar. My thoroughbred has been on it for years and he does great. Back in the olden days the barn I was at used regular Strategy for hard keepers and it sent a lot of them through the roof. I wouldn't feed it unless I was trying to light a fire under a horse!
                                    The big guy: Lincoln

                                    Southern Maryland Equestrian

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I assume you're in the US - does your Purina Senior down there have Athlete in it? Ours in Canada does, and my horse goes wacko on Athlete, so that's another possibility. He saw dead people too! (Also, this was the "new and improved" reformulated Athlete that is supposed to be lower NSC and not make horses go wacko, but...we tried it twice, and both times within two days he was nuts. Took him off and within about 4 days he was back to normal).
                                      I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.

                                      Comment

                                        Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Duckz View Post

                                        Out of curiosity, is it regular white bag Strategy? There's another option called Strategy Healthy Edge that is lower in sugar. My thoroughbred has been on it for years and he does great. Back in the olden days the barn I was at used regular Strategy for hard keepers and it sent a lot of them through the roof. I wouldn't feed it unless I was trying to light a fire under a horse!
                                        I‘ll be honest I haven’t seen the bag in quite some time, but it is strategy my barn feeds. I think one of things that really bothers me is the difficulty finding out the ingredients in purina’s grain. I had to search high and low for the ingredients in purina senior and had no problem with TC senior or just about any other grain. I am very curious what is in strategy that so many people have issues with.

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