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Andrew Kocher - electrical spurs?

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    #61
    Originally posted by TheMoo View Post

    If I’m not mistaken, I think the FEI leveled a lifetime ban for a sheik in endurance.
    See post #51

    Comment


      #62
      I am so disappointed that the likes of him and Devin Ryan represent our team. I mean can we not come up with better people?

      i struggle to understand top GP horses that even have serious spur rubs. Like another poster mentioned, how are these horses not trained to be in front of the leg? And I can’t even imagine what you get when you electrocute a horse w Spurs. I wouldn’t want to ride that. I am surprised it produces a desired response. But i guess big guys can just manhandle their front end while electrocuting the back end? I am despondent about the direction of our sport if this is an example of one who wears the red coat.

      Comment


        #63
        The most horrifying moment of my adult life in this sport was the day the USEF put Devin Ryan on a team. I mean the guy used oven cleaner on his horses legs for Christ sake. The next most horrifying moment was when they put this clown on a team. If we have to scrape the barrel this low on the humanity scale just to field teams, I would rather we just didn't do it.

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          #64
          Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
          Ahhh the barrel racer with the electric saddle pad. The crowd reactions are the best.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edHjeGzc2Ao


          Em
          I've seen that video before & I still stand by the fact that I would've ripped that lady right off that horse.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by EmilyM View Post
            I am so disappointed that the likes of him and Devin Ryan represent our team. I mean can we not come up with better people?

            i struggle to understand top GP horses that even have serious spur rubs. Like another poster mentioned, how are these horses not trained to be in front of the leg? And I can’t even imagine what you get when you electrocute a horse w Spurs. I wouldn’t want to ride that. I am surprised it produces a desired response. But i guess big guys can just manhandle their front end while electrocuting the back end? I am despondent about the direction of our sport if this is an example of one who wears the red coat.
            And have you seen the hardware in the mouth's of AK's horses?? Luiciana Diniz rides practically all of her GP horses IN THE GPs in a loose ring snaffle, no martingale. That is class. When you need to have a long shank, 2 nosebands, etc. etc. It's embarrassing for our sport.

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              #66
              Originally posted by Rumorhasit93 View Post

              And have you seen the hardware in the mouth's of AK's horses?? Luiciana Diniz rides practically all of her GP horses IN THE GPs in a loose ring snaffle, no martingale. That is class. When you need to have a long shank, 2 nosebands, etc. etc. It's embarrassing for our sport.
              Apparently when you deliver electrical shocks to a horse, you have to bit up in case you cause more panic than you'd bargained for.

              Kocher's website is awful. It's one long boast.

              Comment


                #67
                Ugh. So unnecessary on so many levels.

                How little regard do you have to have for not only your horse but your own safety to be willing to strap those things on. I feel like there’s easier ways to make money.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by SlamDunk View Post

                  It's not that they need a shock to go forward, more like the need to be afraid enough to never stop no matter what he throws at them in front of a 1.50m jump (or if he makes them jump a derby the day after they win a multi round GP)
                  Does anyone have video of the round with Carollo? I was trying to find it yesterday to send to a friend after seeing the articles about the electrified spurs, and couldn't find it.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Allusion View Post

                    Does anyone have video of the round with Carollo? I was trying to find it yesterday to send to a friend after seeing the articles about the electrified spurs, and couldn't find it.
                    https://www.facebook.com/roy.wilten/...type=3&theater
                    https://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Rumorhasit93 View Post
                      Most of us know he is a pretty abhorrent horseman. What I find troublesome is finding out people who you think you can look up to do some (very) shady things, too. Think Olympic level caught with rocks in boots.

                      I can’t wait for the day something is actually done about him. What is the point in paying all these fees to the governing bodies who claim to be “for the horse” when they don’t do anything to the abusers. Shameful.

                      Yet I continue to pay my USEF membership so I can compete. I digress.
                      What is "rocks in boots"? What does that do and whose boots?

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by secuono View Post

                        What is "rocks in boots"? What does that do and whose boots?
                        Shards of glass usually, inside a splint boot or other type of closed front boot. When the horse hits a fence in front, the shards of glass dig into the skin in front of the cannon bone making it extremely painful. Thereafter, horse is more careful. That is one of the reasons you see FEI horses stopped in a specific area for the equipment check after a round, usually on top of a mat or other smooth/hard packed, and clean, surface - so they can easily tell if something falls out of a boot.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Annie Burton View Post

                          A jockey or two? It's commonly used and commonly known. But people keep going unpunished for it. Here is the most famous, most "respected" Hall-of-Fame jockey in our country, Gary Stevens, and super-trainer D Wayne Lucas, caught at a dinner party when they blatantly boast about using electric shock devices, with their listeners laughing along: https://youtu.be/tNhoYxYr070

                          If this is not evidence, then what is. If Kocher is not suspended asap (everyone is now watching VERY closely to see what the FEI will do with him), then nothing will ever change.

                          It's another change moment, triggered by multiplying evidence. And the organizations we are part of and pay memberships to must show that they can act in the interest of our non-voting partners: our dear horses. Kick out the bad apples. Set examples.
                          I saw that you tube video; am not so sure of you tube "evidence." However, will take your word for it that is what was being said. A jockey or two is what has been "published." Of course there's more that have yet to be caught. FEI did nothing about 28 penalties at Spruce Meadows. Will the FEI and USEF/USET act w/ regard to the jigger usage? Dunno. Hopefully he is banned for life.
                          Bethe Mounce
                          Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                          https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                          Brentwood CA

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
                            FEI did nothing about 28 penalties at Spruce Meadows. Will the FEI and USEF/USET act w/ regard to the jigger usage? Dunno. Hopefully he is banned for life.
                            Honestly, the class at Spruce was bad, but I don’t know the exact wording of the FEI rules, so I’m not sure if they had clear-cut grounds to take any action.

                            I have not looked at the video since last year, but as I recall, the horse was clear for a good portion of the course, and then had several rails towards the end of it. To me, he absolutely should have pulled up, or better yet, not done the class in the first place after the horse had made such a big effort for him the previous day.

                            But I don’t know if the FEI had a clear-cut course of action there within the rules to discipline him.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by MrsFitzDarcy&Feliks View Post
                              What kind of horses needs a shock to go forward? If you can't a horse to go, maybe you should ride a thoroughbred. Holy moly, I only used the smallest of spurs on my TBs. I'd be in the next county with roweled spurs, never mind a shock treatment.
                              Apologies for the sidetrack but they shock thoroughbreds too. Only difference is when they are caught there are significant consequences, not a slap on the wrist.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home

                              Comment


                                #75
                                I’d love to rally together and email his sponsors. I know Butet & Eskadron are two. All of them are listed on his website.

                                I’d like to respectfully urge them to reconsider sponsoring a habitual horse abuser when there are many other deserving riders.

                                I respect those brands & would love to continue giving them business and supporting their business (not paid, by the way - I ALWAYS promote Butet when people ask about saddles & I am an amateur.).

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  I think the endurance ban should give us all some pause. While that is a lengthy ban... it's not life.

                                  IF the guy whose horse had to be put down wasn't banned for life.....it might be a stretch to expect AK to be. Horrifyingly sad as it is to say that.

                                  Who knows.

                                  Btw.... I think Devin Ryan didn't use oven cleaner. It was a barbecue grill cleaning brush is the story I recall.
                                  Em
                                  "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    And the Plaid Horse just posted an article about how wonderful Devin Ryan is. Just when I was starting to maybe have more respect for them.

                                    Link to website article - http://www.theplaidhorse.com/2019/06...ght-sensation/

                                    I do recommend checking out the Facebook one, if you have an account, for the comments.
                                    The Evil Chem Prof

                                    Comment


                                      #79
                                      Oven cleaner on a horse's legs?? REALLY! Geez Louise! It sounds more and more like what TWHs endure for the sake of a ribbon. Horrendous! WHY don't the riders who care about their horses and compete at those levels protest or at least write a letter (even anonymously) to the officials! They should be checking rider's clothing and equipment and horses like they do at some walking horse shows.

                                      Comment


                                        #80
                                        Originally posted by MHM View Post

                                        Honestly, the class at Spruce was bad, but I don’t know the exact wording of the FEI rules, so I’m not sure if they had clear-cut grounds to take any action.

                                        I have not looked at the video since last year, but as I recall, the horse was clear for a good portion of the course, and then had several rails towards the end of it. To me, he absolutely should have pulled up, or better yet, not done the class in the first place after the horse had made such a big effort for him the previous day.

                                        But I don’t know if the FEI had a clear-cut course of action there within the rules to discipline him.
                                        Crazy question/thought on this. Is the horse considered an athlete at the Olympics? It's a competitor, so why not? And if it is an athlete, does the horse not qualify for protection under the SafeSport code? The equine athlete should benefit from the same protection as the human athlete. Am I wrong here? This man is participating in show jumping, which is an Olympic sport, so it would make sense that he abused an athlete. It's not like Andy can jump around a course on foot. I do wonder if there is a little loophole here that could be applied...

                                        "The U.S. Center for SafeSport was created to address the issue of abuse in sport. The Center works with National Governing Bodies, including US Equestrian, to enforce the SafeSport Code and the Federal Safe Sport Act. The policies in both the Code and Federal Law are aimed at protecting athletes from harm and abuse and apply to all Olympic and amateur sporting disciplines."

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