Sport Horse Spotlight

calucci_cf_sq

Real Estate Spotlight

1

Sale Spotlight

  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Jumping with draw reins

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • redpepper
    started a topic Jumping with draw reins

    Jumping with draw reins

    I've been watching riders exercising their horses over jumps in draw reins. What is the purpose and isn't this dangerous?

  • findeight
    replied
    Originally posted by ake987 View Post
    I saw a horrific rotational fall as a result of jumping in draw reins when I was a teen. Low jump, slow speed, didn't matter. Horse overjumped and caught a leg and flipped on the rider. So avoidable, I don't know why anyone would do it.

    The adage I grew up with is "riders who are skilled enough to use them don't need them".



    See, that’s a great example of when they should NOT be used and a rider that should not use them. Low and slow is the worst possible way to misuse them. That’s on the rider not an improperly applied and misused tool typically chosen by experienced riders when they have too much instead of not enough.

    I usually only used them if I thought I was going to get run off with, spooked off or bucked off. Self defense. If you work with enough horses, you’ll encounter some you need an anchor with.
    Last edited by findeight; Feb. 7, 2020, 04:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bornfreenowexpensive
    replied
    I have a set of draw reins....we rarely use them....but they are a tool that can be useful and effective when used correctly. However, when I used to work for a top level jumper, we rode in them all the time. This was with very experienced riders. We attached them at the chest (not between the legs) and of course had a set of reins. They were NOT to get the horse’s head down but used as a more effective martingale. So they were only engaged if a horse flung his nose above his ears...and yes, we had a few that were feral like that no matter how well schooled on the flat. He liked use using them rather than a martingale as we could more fully release over the top of the fence but it gave us control when needed.

    That said.....most of the time they really shouldn’t be used....and I’ve spent more time having to try and correct bad habits and incorrect muscling in horses that were ridden in draw reins.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Feb. 7, 2020, 11:19 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ake987
    replied
    I saw a horrific rotational fall as a result of jumping in draw reins when I was a teen. Low jump, slow speed, didn't matter. Horse overjumped and caught a leg and flipped on the rider. So avoidable, I don't know why anyone would do it.

    The adage I grew up with is "riders who are skilled enough to use them don't need them".

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post

    That sound like a properly fitted running martingale as well. The running martingale I guess in an accident when the riders hands go forward, or let go, the horse can do what it needs to save itself.
    Both are used for different reasons. You can abuse a running martingale too and turn it into a tie down. Some horses react better to the resistance provided when it hits the nose band, others when it hits the bit. Both can cause harm when not used correctly. Just like draw reins, side reins, bits or whatever else we use on our horses. Demonize the lack of education not the equipment.

    Leave a comment:


  • trubandloki
    replied
    Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post

    Stumbling a horse normally puts its head down. Falling because tripped by a pole, puts a leg in a hole, etc is a different story.
    People hunt using standing martingales, like real hunting, not the show hunters.

    Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
    So I was always taught a properly adjusted standing martingale would allow for full movement but prevent the horse from lifting its head so high as to evade the bit.
    Yes. But that logic is no fun when you (general) want to insist something you do not use is not OK for others to use.


    For the record, I am not saying everyone should use a standing martingale (or draw reins or a running martingale or anything else). I am just disputing the 'oh they are so not ok' theory.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzieQNutter
    replied
    Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
    So I was always taught a properly adjusted standing martingale would allow for full movement but prevent the horse from lifting its head so high as to evade the bit.
    That sound like a properly fitted running martingale as well. The running martingale I guess in an accident when the riders hands go forward, or let go, the horse can do what it needs to save itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    So I was always taught a properly adjusted standing martingale would allow for full movement but prevent the horse from lifting its head so high as to evade the bit. So that wouldn’t effect jumping. Of it did, well not having one on would cause loss of control so you’re in trouble anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzieQNutter
    replied
    From equine wellness magazine . com

    Because of the way a horse's eyes focus, he must raise or lower his head to adjust his focus on the jump. A very high head position or restriction of the head and neck can affect his ability to see the jump

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet
    replied
    The horse also puts its head up for balance when landing off a BIG jump. Look at the USEA logo for an example.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzieQNutter
    replied
    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
    I have never noticed a large quantity of horses at hunter shows falling to the ground because they are unable to lift their head if it stumbles or such.

    Stumbling a horse normally puts its head down. Falling because tripped by a pole, puts a leg in a hole, etc is a different story.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    Originally posted by findeight View Post



    Must be new to the sport...it’s nothing new to add them if high powered, over revved GP horse is known to get excited in the presentation or victory gallop. Or to just ride a different horse in the ceremony. Been seeing it occasionally since the early 70s, also seen what happens if they don’t put something on a known to be difficult horse in the presentation ceremony. Not ideal. but not a bad idea on some of those horses that jump giants for a living. Appreciated by other riders in the presentation ceremony not to mention those on the ground,
    I have a friend who, when she was showing the big shows as a junior, got bucked off in the victory gallop. Her horse was a jumper. Draw reins after that. The horse didn’t need them for schooling and was very accomplished with her aboard. But yeah, she used draw reins.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet
    replied
    From a physics perspective- The issue with draw reins is that, in order to increase the effective length 1", you need to move your hand forward 2". If you are jumping, unless you have a BIG loop in the draw reins, you have to push your hands forward twice as far, and it is VERY easy to catch the horse in the mouth landing from a fence (when the horse raises up his head).

    Leave a comment:


  • findeight
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

    I think it goes to show what kind of world we live in now. cant even do a victory gallop or walk into a trophy presentation without the horse in head gear.


    Must be new to the sport...it’s nothing new to add them if high powered, over revved GP horse is known to get excited in the presentation or victory gallop. Or to just ride a different horse in the ceremony. Been seeing it occasionally since the early 70s, also seen what happens if they don’t put something on a known to be difficult horse in the presentation ceremony. Not ideal. but not a bad idea on some of those horses that jump giants for a living. Appreciated by other riders in the presentation ceremony not to mention those on the ground,

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

    I think it goes to show what kind of world we live in now. cant even do a victory gallop or walk into a trophy presentation without the horse in head gear.
    You clearly have never been in that situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • snaffle1987
    replied
    Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

    I think criticizing a GP rider for using draw reins for the trophy presentation/victory gallop is a little much and NOT indicative of people over using draw reins.

    I rarely see or hear of a trainer suggesting draw reins. IMO if a horse needs balance and control over 2’/2”6’ fences, it has holes in its flat work. It doesn’t need draw reins.

    As far as race horses, that’s completely unrelated but I know you don’t like to waste an opportunity to trash racing.
    I think it goes to show what kind of world we live in now. cant even do a victory gallop or walk into a trophy presentation without the horse in head gear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    I have done it. But we always had the draw reins (if using them between the fore-legs, run under the neck piece of the martingale so they were not flapping in the breeze and causing further chance of them getting caught in a hoof.

    We never jumped higher than 2/2'6 with them on and we always used them under light contact o/f. They were only used on a particular mare who was extremely rushy, unconcentrated, unbalanced and often unpredictable to the jumps.

    They were not used regularly. We limited o/f work to 1-2x per week and the draw reins were only ever used in our lessons.

    Under experienced hands and experienced eyes, they can be a useful tool with helping the green-bean find balance and and control.

    However, I believe we as an industry have become reliant on draw reins and they are a norm nowadays. Gone are the days of working horses from the ground in side reins and going through the motions to teach proper balance and working their body. Draw reins are the quick fix! It is now the norm to see Grand Prix riders exit the arena and return with draw reins on their mount for the trophy presentation. We see horses regularly going around the ring behind the vertical even under professional riders.

    I think there is a time and a place for draw reins. But I think we need to go back to the days of proper ground work and training from the ground up producing soft and supple horses. Take the draw reins off and 9x out of 10 you are back to square one.
    I think criticizing a GP rider for using draw reins for the trophy presentation/victory gallop is a little much and NOT indicative of people over using draw reins.

    I rarely see or hear of a trainer suggesting draw reins. IMO if a horse needs balance and control over 2’/2”6’ fences, it has holes in its flat work. It doesn’t need draw reins.

    As far as race horses, that’s completely unrelated but I know you don’t like to waste an opportunity to trash racing.

    Leave a comment:


  • snaffle1987
    replied
    I have done it. But we always had the draw reins (if using them between the fore-legs, run under the neck piece of the martingale so they were not flapping in the breeze and causing further chance of them getting caught in a hoof.

    We never jumped higher than 2/2'6 with them on and we always used them under light contact o/f. They were only used on a particular mare who was extremely rushy, unconcentrated, unbalanced and often unpredictable to the jumps.

    They were not used regularly. We limited o/f work to 1-2x per week and the draw reins were only ever used in our lessons.

    Under experienced hands and experienced eyes, they can be a useful tool with helping the green-bean find balance and and control.

    However, I believe we as an industry have become reliant on draw reins and they are a norm nowadays. Gone are the days of working horses from the ground in side reins and going through the motions to teach proper balance and working their body. Draw reins are the quick fix! It is now the norm to see Grand Prix riders exit the arena and return with draw reins on their mount for the trophy presentation. We see horses regularly going around the ring behind the vertical even under professional riders.

    I think there is a time and a place for draw reins. But I think we need to go back to the days of proper ground work and training from the ground up producing soft and supple horses. Take the draw reins off and 9x out of 10 you are back to square one.

    Leave a comment:


  • snaffle1987
    replied
    Originally posted by poltroon View Post
    I don't think it's ever safe to use draw reins without also having regular reins, FWIW.
    don't watch morning workouts at the track then. its a regular occurrence and It makes my face boil mad.

    Leave a comment:


  • trubandloki
    replied
    Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post
    I was also taught to never put on a standing martingale for jumping. The horse can't lift its head if it is going to fall, the same as with the draw reins. But it seems that outside our Club a lot of riders do that as well.
    I have never noticed a large quantity of horses at hunter shows falling to the ground because they are unable to lift their head if it stumbles or such.


    Leave a comment:

Working...
X