Sport Horse Spotlight

Carinjo Jumping 1

Real Estate Spotlight

BB2

Sale Spotlight

  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Jumping with draw reins

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jumping with draw reins

    I've been watching riders exercising their horses over jumps in draw reins. What is the purpose and isn't this dangerous?

  • #2
    Impossible to say without more information.

    A good rider using draw reins for a good reason? I don't have an issue with it and have done it myself from time to time.

    A rider using the draw reins as a crutch to fixing what's actually wrong? Not a good thing. As for the jumping with them....everything jumping is potentially dangerous, so draw reins I suppose could increase the risk....or not.

    Impossible to make any calls out of the complete lack of information you've provided.

    But based on your statement alone, no, draw reins are not inherently evil and dangerous.
    __________________________________
    Flying F Sport Horses
    Horses in the NW

    Comment


    • #3
      Some horse' almost invert when approaching a jump, particularly with a heavy handed rider,

      Horses invert because they feel restricted in the use of their head and neck,

      I can see no reason why using draw reins can end well.
      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think it's a very safe choice.

        I am sure people are using them thinking it's a way to make the horse "rounder" on approach or in the air. I don't think there's any rational expectation that this would be an effective way to create that picture when the draw reins are off, and a lot of reason to think they'd make a situation worse.

        Flatwork and gymnastics are the canonical answers to that problem for a reason. But some horses will never have good hunter style, and some people can't ever manage to accept that for a particular horse.

        I think if you were to use them, I would use ones that snap to the front of the breastplate, to lessen the chance that a rein can get caught in a hoof.

        I think there are better choices if some sort of emergency control is needed, such as the running martingale or a pelham bit.
        If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

        Comment


        • #5
          Are they using them AS WELL AS regular reins, or INSTEAD OF regular reins?
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't think it's ever safe to use draw reins without also having regular reins, FWIW.
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • #7
              For OP, without knowing the riders and the horses, their level of experience and what their specific goals using them are, it’s impossible to tell why or if it’s dangerous or not. It’s along the lines if if you have to ask why or if you need them, it is probably dangerous.

              For advanced riders trying to accomplish or correct something specific, especially in older, experienced horses, it is just a training exercise. These might have just shipped down and getting their first school before their Ammy or kid riders come down to show.

              Personally not a big fan of them but have used them occasionally and never jump to conclusions about why others are using them if adjusted and used properly.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                I am sure people are using them thinking it's a way to make the horse "rounder" on approach or in the air. I don't think there's any rational expectation that this would be an effective way to create that picture when the draw reins are off, and a lot of reason to think they'd make a situation worse.
                In my experience, the big reasons are straightness, and secondarily, pace control.
                They can really help a learning horse figure out, “This is how we do this.”

                This is was this horse’s first few rides jumping, the draw reins helped with “We stay straight and we stay the same”, and were on for the first 10 minutes of his first three jump schools:
                https://youtu.be/cBI5S9PFW2g
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                Comment


                • #9
                  I personally would never jump with draw reins, and I've rarely seen it done. If I had a horse that wanted to invert on approach, I might use draw reins while cantering poles or cavaletti. But horses need their head and neck to jump properly and safely. Draw reins can be so restrictive when incorrectly used....and it's so easy to use them incorrectly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                    I don't think it's ever safe to use draw reins without also having regular reins, FWIW.
                    I agree.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Draw reins in general are not very safe to use, especially without a regular pair of reins. Horses need their head and neck unrestricted to jump safely and properly (same reason I HATE seeing standing martingales on jumpers). I would never use draw reins while jumping.
                      I’d rather ride on a Mustang, than in one.

                      BaileyAnn Neal

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I see a lot of trainers slapping draw reins on younger horses so that their (perhaps over-mounted) owners can ride them. I see no issue with occasional draw rein use, especially if used by an otherwise competent trainer. They, like most gadgets, can be beneficial when used fairly and with thought. But if a rider needs draw reins to jump their younger horse, then perhaps the trainer is not quite doing their job in properly training the rider/student and horse.
                        Lots of things you could do with a stopwatch...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Look for a recent video post on Facebook:
                          horse catches shoe on standing martingale strap/clip in midair and a rotational fall onto its knees on the backside is the result. It rolls all the wAy over its head, onto the rider. It’s a helmet advert. It’s hideous.

                          even with the ones that clip to the breastplate, they are unforgiving in case of a moment of a horse misjudgment...

                          imagine a hoof getting hung up in a draw rein.
                          Imagine a horse tripping, and needing FULL use of the neck to recover.
                          imagine a super long/tight spot and the horse needing FULL use of the neck to recover.

                          A trainer who is so inept at flatwork that they are willing to risk all of the above, instead of taking the time to actually training the horse better with caveletti, transitions, gymnastics etc, speaks volumes.
                          It’s bad enough that they would do this themselves, to have a student jump in that sort if rig is negligent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Risky and stupid and for what? So the horse looks pretty with an archy neck all the way to the base? Dumb.
                            Power to the People

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gertie06 View Post
                              I... never jump with draw reins, and I've rarely seen it done...
                              Usually don’t see it weekends in the afternoon but if you were down at the winter circuit AA shows on a midweek Pro day morning this early in the season, you would certainly see some draw reins. After the horses settle in and get a few shows under their girths, the draw reins will stay in the tack room. Most good Pros don’t do serious, corrective schooling during prime show viewing hours.

                              The monkey see, monkey do types don’t know any better and you might see some of them. No idea what OP saw.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by redpepper View Post
                                I've been watching riders exercising their horses over jumps in draw reins. What is the purpose and isn't this dangerous?
                                Like others have already said, it depends on who is using them and why. Draw reins are just a tool - granted, a tool best used by the knowledgeable and experienced, but still just a tool. The value, or lack thereof, is a function of who uses it and how it's used.
                                "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                that's even remotely true."

                                Homer Simpson

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by gertie06 View Post
                                  I personally would never jump with draw reins, and I've rarely seen it done. If I had a horse that wanted to invert on approach, I might use draw reins while cantering poles or cavaletti. But horses need their head and neck to jump properly and safely. Draw reins can be so restrictive when incorrectly used....and it's so easy to use them incorrectly.
                                  Then you're not in the right time or place, because it's done all the time!

                                  To the OP, in my decades in the horse world, I've learned that the only "never" in my vocabulary is "never say never." There's always an exception and there's always a correct way and situation to apply a training aid. That doesn't mean that the training aid is always correctly used, and draw reins are more often than not used incorrectly.

                                  But just because they're widely abused doesn't mean that there aren't appropriate situations for them...just like the abuse of certain drugs doesn't mean that there isn't a property time and place for their use.

                                  Setting them on the side mitigates the risk of getting a leg tangled. I'm not a huge fan of attaching them through the front legs, and attaching at the breastplate, while safer, changes the action.

                                  I used to flat my mare in them after a day off (and very likely jumped some small jumps in them) because she's incredibly spooky. At the end of the day, I learned it was far more effective to let her fight against herself by running into their action when she tried to shoot her head straight up in the air before shooting sideways than to get overly forceful with my hands. In this case, the draw reins let me do less, while softly reminding my mare that staying focused and on the aids was the right answer. After day one, she was expected to be properly off the aids without the draw reins, but I learned over time it was more of a sin to not use them than to use them properly in certain situations.
                                  Jennifer Baas
                                  It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                                    In my experience, the big reasons are straightness, and secondarily, pace control.
                                    They can really help a learning horse figure out, “This is how we do this.”

                                    This is was this horse’s first few rides jumping, the draw reins helped with “We stay straight and we stay the same”, and were on for the first 10 minutes of his first three jump schools:
                                    https://youtu.be/cBI5S9PFW2g
                                    Meup-From a dressage now/eventer then viewpoint, neither straightness nor pace should have anything to do with reins,
                                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I jump cavellettis with draw reins properly through the martingale, but nothing higher that I’d consider a “jump”. When I flat I find my draw reins are only something I go to when my horse loses focus. They are merely an aid, not what I rely on to ride my horse.

                                      I worked for a BNT who didn’t own a single pair of draw reins. Then I worked for a lesser known GP rider who used them on about half the horses in her barn. You can learn something from everyone.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I’ve used draw reins over fences before. It was a situation where we were seeking the ability to engage something deliberately and with finesse (so martingale options were out - we wanted to have the capability to initiate it and then release it) due to some learned behaviours on the approach to fences. It was initially a pain defense but once the problem was treated and diagnosed, the behaviour had become habitual. It probably took three weeks (two seasons a week of a jump school over low fences - one a trainer and one was me in a lesson with said trainer) for him to realise that he wasn’t hurting anymore and didn’t have to be defensive. I never had another issue with it again (and my draw reins have been stored for the last twelve years).

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X