Sport Horse Spotlight

Real Estate Spotlight

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

On the buckle

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Schiller is amazing. And he has gotten even better.

    OP, I think most people have missed your point. I remember the video where he talks about letting go of the reins and letting the horse pick its own speed and direction. Horses really respond to that freedom. But 90% of the riders I see are too scared to let go, they always have a reason why they can't truly let go, and that reason is always the horses fault. Go figure.

    Xanthoria I get what you're saying, I had an ottb mare that thrived on a crisp gallop (on an absolutely loose rein) to get the cobwebs out of her head. 🙂

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
      Schiller is amazing. And he has gotten even better.

      OP, I think most people have missed your point. I remember the video where he talks about letting go of the reins and letting the horse pick its own speed and direction. Horses really respond to that freedom. But 90% of the riders I see are too scared to let go, they always have a reason why they can't truly let go, and that reason is always the horses fault. Go figure.

      Xanthoria I get what you're saying, I had an ottb mare that thrived on a crisp gallop (on an absolutely loose rein) to get the cobwebs out of her head. 🙂
      I agree haha. Maybe I should have left OTTB out of it, that seems to spawn all kinds of different opinions. But you know what, he does the same thing with his OTTB that he does with every other horse... cause its still a horse!! And the stuff still works

      Comment


      • #23
        I agree for sure, being able to WTC on the buckle is pretty much a prerequisite for a horse being able to work happy and relaxed on a contact. I used to work a lot with OTTBs, and it's one of the first things we'd try and teach them.

        Nothing is absolute in training horses, of course. There'll always be horses who won't accept it or won't be safe with it. But I think it's a great skill to practice if you can. As an added bonus, it's also a great way to practice staying quiet and balanced without relying on the reins for balance.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by ClassyJumper View Post

          I agree haha. Maybe I should have left OTTB out of it, that seems to spawn all kinds of different opinions. But you know what, he does the same thing with his OTTB that he does with every other horse... cause its still a horse!! And the stuff still works
          Totally off topic, did you watch the one with one of his assistants riding the tb? You could see she was nervous about giving him his head. After about two minutes... magic. 🙂

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by Gestalt View Post

            Totally off topic, did you watch the one with one of his assistants riding the tb? You could see she was nervous about giving him his head. After about two minutes... magic. 🙂
            I haven't seen that one but I believe it. As Gumby80 said it does great things for the rider too. It takes a lot of strength and balance to stay with them when you have no idea where they are going to choose to go. May not be safe for every horse but I know it was an eye opener/confidence booster for me that I could completely let go and she wasnt going to try to kill us both

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Seagram View Post

              Well, I ride a 15 yr old Belgian/TB X who is slowly learning to slow down. But for most of his life, with previous riders, he has been allowed to just go as forward as he would like. He can blow through a halfhalt like nobody, and sometimes sitting trot will slow him down, but not always. I'm finding that I have to continually (like every stride sometimes) halfhalt, and constantly really yank to stop him because he completely ignores me. I'm using my body, but often he does not listen. He is much better outside, and we have had some beautiful rides, but indoors he is way worse. I've tried just dropping him on his head, long reins ( he just get super fast), any ideas?
              A yank implies a timing issue to me because generally a yank is so quick that the horse doesn't get a chance to respond before the pressure is released. So it's pointless from a training perspective. The horse needs to respond before the release.

              When you halt, are you waiting for him to accept the halt before you release the rein pressure? If his feet stop, but his jaw is still braced against you, you need to keep the rein on until he says yes to the halt, then release the rein and have him stand there flat footed before moving off.

              Also if he is leaning on both reins, really fast turns from one direction to the other (like one or two steps before going the new way) to get him listening/soft to one rein at a time is helpful. Do it until the switch from one rein to the other is so fast that eventually is is just travelling straight and light in both reins.
              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                A yank implies a timing issue to me because generally a yank is so quick that the horse doesn't get a chance to respond before the pressure is released. So it's pointless from a training perspective. The horse needs to respond before the release.

                When you halt, are you waiting for him to accept the halt before you release the rein pressure? If his feet stop, but his jaw is still braced against you, you need to keep the rein on until he says yes to the halt, then release the rein and have him stand there flat footed before moving off.

                Also if he is leaning on both reins, really fast turns from one direction to the other (like one or two steps before going the new way) to get him listening/soft to one rein at a time is helpful. Do it until the switch from one rein to the other is so fast that eventually is is just travelling straight and light in both reins.
                This sounds absolutely brutal. There's no way you can prep a horse for turning this fast "inside leg to outside rein", and would undoubtedly end up being glorified see-sawing. I can't see this working well, and by description is front to back riding.

                Maybe it's just me though.

                I'd be more inclined to use bend and counterbend to lighten a heavy horse up one side at a time.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post

                  Use the 10 m circle to slow him down or a smaller circle than you are on if he is not up to that yet. A proper circle with no speed boat turns.

                  Yanking on the bit is not helping anyone. A bit is only as good as the hands on the other end. Yanking hands are not good hands. Do you have an instructor?

                  Sometimes a thinner bit is kinder than a fat bit as the horse responds to it better so no yanking. I really think a good instructor is what you need though.
                  I guess "Yanking" was not a really accurate description. I am constantly having a conversation with him through my hands. He is just extremely heavy in your hands, always. And the more you lengthing the reins and lighten the contact, the heavier and faster he can get. Some days are great, but other days he just speeds/plows through everything. Due to his previous work, speed is his go to answer for everything. We do tons of circles, serpentines, leg yeilding, transitions, etc, anything to try and get him softer and listening. Just thought perhaps as this was being discussed (sorta) there might be some additional ideas for things that have not yet been tried with this guy.

                  He is also a very large beast, and i am quite little, so all things considered, I'm probably not using as much force as you are imagining.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                    A yank implies a timing issue to me because generally a yank is so quick that the horse doesn't get a chance to respond before the pressure is released. So it's pointless from a training perspective. The horse needs to respond before the release.

                    When you halt, are you waiting for him to accept the halt before you release the rein pressure? If his feet stop, but his jaw is still braced against you, you need to keep the rein on until he says yes to the halt, then release the rein and have him stand there flat footed before moving off.

                    Also if he is leaning on both reins, really fast turns from one direction to the other (like one or two steps before going the new way) to get him listening/soft to one rein at a time is helpful. Do it until the switch from one rein to the other is so fast that eventually is is just travelling straight and light in both reins.
                    I actually kind of do your last suggestion already, and I think I get what you mean. It's not really a change of direction, but the thought of a change? Just very soft.

                    As for halting, that is a work in progress as well. He has been allowed to walk off as soon as you mount his entire life, (that has now changed!!) and was allowed to pretty much pick his destination. Retraining the older, spoiled horse can be interesting.

                    He does halt now, and has learnt to stand still. That was a challenge. It used to be halt, and try and walk off immediately.

                    Just to add, when lunging, this horse is also a speed demon. I've gotten him to the point where he will slow down a bit with my voice, but he still prefers to trot like the hounds of hell are after him. It is just his go to speed, and I'm trying to slow it down.
                    It's not spooking, or equipment, and he is not being a nutbar. His trot is just so huge.
                    Last edited by Seagram; Jan. 10, 2020, 09:22 PM. Reason: adding info

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Seagram View Post

                      I actually kind of do your last suggestion already, and I think I get what you mean. It's not really a change of direction, but the thought of a change? Just very soft.
                      No, it's a change of direction, and if the horse is braced it can be quite firm.

                      ie, the whole horse turns and faces 9 o'clock for two strides and then the whole horse turns and faces 3 o'clock for two strides, all the way up quarter line. Repeat to lessening degrees as he gets more responsive until he follows his nose lightly and easily.

                      As the horse gets softer you start turning to 10 and 2, then 11 and 1, until you're straight.

                      I have seen a dressage trainer do what were essentially 7 meter serpentines in canter (keeping the lead), to get the horse soft, not bracing, and lightly even in both reins.

                      Any time a horse I'm on braces, I do a quick left right left (actual moving the shoulders turns,not see sawing), and then continue.

                      Being just very soft reinforces the horse tuning you to blah. He can do what he likes while quietly in the background you are being just very soft.

                      You need to be loud enough and sharp enough that you get an answer.

                      If you get a chance to clinic with Leif Aho,he teaches this really well. He is super horse friendly and correct - it sounds a little crazy in text but in real life it makes total sense and is very effective while still being horse friendly.

                      They can't brace if they're **turning** a million times a minute. And it's not a harsh, constant pulling war. It's just turn turn turn turn, and then smaller turns, and then even in both reins and going straight. And the whole horse has to turn, not just bend his necks and look. The front feet have to move off the line of travel, then back across and over the other way, etc.
                      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                        No, it's a change of direction, and if the horse is braced it can be quite firm.

                        ie, the whole horse turns and faces 9 o'clock for two strides and then the whole horse turns and faces 3 o'clock for two strides, all the way up quarter line. Repeat to lessening degrees as he gets more responsive until he follows his nose lightly and easily.

                        As the horse gets softer you start turning to 10 and 2, then 11 and 1, until you're straight.

                        I have seen a dressage trainer do what were essentially 7 meter serpentines in canter (keeping the lead), to get the horse soft, not bracing, and lightly even in both reins.

                        Any time a horse I'm on braces, I do a quick left right left (actual moving the shoulders turns,not see sawing), and then continue.

                        Being just very soft reinforces the horse tuning you to blah. He can do what he likes while quietly in the background you are being just very soft.

                        You need to be loud enough and sharp enough that you get an answer.

                        If you get a chance to clinic with Leif Aho,he teaches this really well. He is super horse friendly and correct - it sounds a little crazy in text but in real life it makes total sense and is very effective while still being horse friendly.

                        They can't brace if they're **turning** a million times a minute. And it's not a harsh, constant pulling war. It's just turn turn turn turn, and then smaller turns, and then even in both reins and going straight. And the whole horse has to turn, not just bend his necks and look. The front feet have to move off the line of travel, then back across and over the other way, etc.
                        I'm still not falling for this. There's a million ways to get this done that doesn't involve ripping on a horses face and riding front to back. I can think of no better way to get a horse bulging through their shoulders, losing their haunches, avoiding an outside rein connection, and avoiding contact all together than by doing abrupt about faces every two strides.

                        Nowhere in here do you mention the rider's role in a pulling war. It takes two.

                        I can think of no better way to get a horse bulging through their shoulders, tilting their head, losing their haunches, avoiding an outside rein connection, and avoiding contact all together than by doing abrupt about faces every stride until the horse "softens".

                        Transitions, flex and counterflexing, shoulder in, leg yield facing the rail, 15m circles while giving the horse a chance by floating the inside rein every few strides, spiral in and out, and if he's a real bulldozer, lifting your hands until he can't lean and then lowering them back down to give him a chance (you can do this one rein at a time on a bend, too).

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post

                          I'm still not falling for this. There's a million ways to get this done that doesn't involve ripping on a horses face and riding front to back. I can think of no better way to get a horse bulging through their shoulders, losing their haunches, avoiding an outside rein connection, and avoiding contact all together than by doing abrupt about faces every two strides.

                          Nowhere in here do you mention the rider's role in a pulling war. It takes two.

                          I can think of no better way to get a horse bulging through their shoulders, tilting their head, losing their haunches, avoiding an outside rein connection, and avoiding contact all together than by doing abrupt about faces every stride until the horse "softens".

                          Transitions, flex and counterflexing, shoulder in, leg yield facing the rail, 15m circles while giving the horse a chance by floating the inside rein every few strides, spiral in and out, and if he's a real bulldozer, lifting your hands until he can't lean and then lowering them back down to give him a chance (you can do this one rein at a time on a bend, too).
                          I mean, you don't have to.

                          The technique was taught in a clinic by a USDF gold medalist who gets 70%s+ in the big classes in Wellington on self-developed horses, who regularly trains with Heather Blitz. You can not watch this man ride and be unimpressed by what an incredibly kind rider he is and how happy his horses are to work for him. One of the people watching who thought he was great has gotten her own horse to an Olympic gold (not with her riding, but she did all the care and management of his career). This was not some clueless hill billy convention.

                          All clinic participants were willing to try it (to the degree their horses required it, and some didn't need a lot and others needed more), and even lower level riders were able to incorporate the technique and improve their horse.

                          A veterinarian who is a lovely, kind rider, and who has a very sensitive trigger for considering riding harsh or abusive flies this guy in from Florida on a monthly basis because she doesnt like anyone else and the horses and riders do so well with him.

                          I went to the clinic with an ottb who had a remedial approach to the contact that I had been trying to improve for at least a year and while progress had been made, it was slow going. These clinics made a dramatic improvement and the horse is going lighter and straighter now in the past couple months than he ever did in the first year.

                          But by all means, don't even consider it. It's definitely a terrible idea and you who were not even at the clinic and havent even tried it surely know more about it than those of us who were there and gave it a whirl.
                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Seagram View Post

                            I guess "Yanking" was not a really accurate description. I am constantly having a conversation with him through my hands. He is just extremely heavy in your hands, always. And the more you lengthing the reins and lighten the contact, the heavier and faster he can get. Some days are great, but other days he just speeds/plows through everything. Due to his previous work, speed is his go to answer for everything. We do tons of circles, serpentines, leg yeilding, transitions, etc, anything to try and get him softer and listening. Just thought perhaps as this was being discussed (sorta) there might be some additional ideas for things that have not yet been tried with this guy.

                            He is also a very large beast, and i am quite little, so all things considered, I'm probably not using as much force as you are imagining.
                            The leaning and being heavy is caused from incorrect timing of the hands and or also from lunging in elastic side reins.

                            So we will look at it from the elastic side reins point of view to understand what is happening.

                            Horses learn from release of pressure. They give a little pull, the elastic gives, that is a release of pressure and voila dobbins has been taught to pull.

                            Dobbin leans on the elastic side reins, the elastic gives, there is a release of pressure and voila Dobbin has been taught to lean and be heavy.

                            Now in this scenario he is on the lunge with no rider, so as you can see it is the timing that is incorrect and it has nothing to do with the rider or how big the horse is.

                            Now for ease of explaining lets change the scenario to a horse on the lunge in solid side reins, what happens now?

                            Side reins should never be tight. It is not solid side reins that kill and maim horses. It is the incorrect use of side reins that kill and maim horses.

                            The horse pulls. As with your hands the side reins do not pull, they hold until the horse gives. They then go slack when the horse gives, which is a release of pressure and Dobbin has been taught to give. The same when Dobbin leans, the reins hold and do not give until Dobbin gives, which is a release of pressure and Dobbin learns to give.

                            Now most importantly the above is what happens with a knowledgeable horse. In reality if your horse does not know that giving will cause you to give, it is extremely dangerous for the rider. You are teaching a being who does not understand English. A horse who does not know what you want. Get on and demand and the horse can rear up and go over backwards.

                            The exercise above of the dressage rider is the dressage rider doing what they can to trick the horse into giving so that the dressage rider can give, a soft way without putting pressure on the horse and keeping the rider safe. You just need that first give so you can Give as Horses learn quite fast.

                            I have found another way. A school horse in a group lesson who WOULD NOT give that 1st give. Not $@$/# once. Then ridden by beginners the rest of the week.

                            On the 3Rd ride on the ground waiting to be mounted, I taught the horse to release to pressure with a bridle. Teach good boy and let them know that is a good thing.

                            Do this with one rein then the other rein and the word down. Until down is coming quite well.

                            Hop on in halt adding a stroke on the neck when they give and in my case the words Good Girl. Next ask for walk. It is not long before happening in trot

                            Next instructor sees the change in their school horse in the group lesson and texts you asking if you want solo lessons on that horse.
                            It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                              I'd be more inclined to use bend and counterbend to lighten a heavy horse up one side at a time.
                              The only difference between bend and counter bend and turning and turning is if the feet move off the line of travel.

                              Also, setting a horse up with inside leg and outside rein etc is more advanced, restricted steering. If they're bracing, it's too much holding.

                              Just asking a horse to take a step or two towards his nose to the right and then a step or two towards his nose to the left, and just follow the rein, no other aids layered on top, is not "brutal".

                              Many horses un-brace when allowed to *just* follow the rein, rather than having to also listen to inside leg and outside rein and exactly how much bend do you have and all the other things.

                              Once they follow the rein easily *then* you can add on the other aids.

                              It's fine though, I am just sharing a clinic experience which I found helpful and which definitely worked for the horse I came with. No one else needs to try to learn it if they dont want to.
                              The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                              Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                              Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                              The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post


                                So we will look at it from the elastic side reins point of view to understand what is happening.

                                Horses learn from release of pressure. They give a little pull, the elastic gives, that is a release of pressure and voila dobbins has been taught to pull.
                                What?

                                If the horse "gives a pull" and stretches the rein, the rein is under *more* tension, not less.

                                Put a hair elastic around two fingers and then try to spread your fingers apart. Is there more or less pressure when your fingers are together, or spread apart "giving a pull"?
                                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I guess I have to see a video to understand because I'm a nincompoop. But I dont understand how riding 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock every 2 steps can be construed as anything but pulling a horse around on the forehand, and riding front to back, trying to create softness in the mouth when really it comes from the leg.

                                  which goes against everything I've been taught.

                                  again, I'll put on my dunce cap. I'll also keep using my exercises which have worked well for me, and skip this one.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                                    I guess I have to see a video to understand because I'm a nincompoop. But I dont understand how riding 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock every 2 steps can be construed as anything but pulling a horse around on the forehand, and riding front to back, trying to create softness in the mouth when really it comes from the leg.

                                    which goes against everything I've been taught.

                                    again, I'll put on my dunce cap. I'll also keep using my exercises which have worked well for me, and skip this one.
                                    I think I’ll skip subjecting this lovely clinician’s technique to your expert critical internet analysis, since you already know you hate it and have nothing to learn from him, but he’ll be back in WNY come spring, and auditing is free.

                                    I usually bring snacks for everyone, so come on out.
                                    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                                      I think I’ll skip subjecting this lovely clinician’s technique to your expert critical internet analysis, since you already know you hate it and have nothing to learn from him, but he’ll be back in WNY come spring, and auditing is free.

                                      I usually bring snacks for everyone, so come on out.
                                      I too think your description of the exercise is failing to communicate what is actually occuring. Which is fine. It is inherently difficult to put into words everything one is doing, feeling from the horse, adjusting actions to get the desired response, and so on. This exercise must be one that needs to be gotten directly from the trainer.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Thank you, meupatdoes, for the detailed description. I think I understand what you are doing and why. It is certainly something worth trying. Next time I ride the beast, I will give it a go and see what happens. It can't hurt.
                                        And thank you everyone else for the replies.
                                        Sorry I kind of hijacked the thread, I didn't mean to. I should have started a new thread.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post

                                          I think I’ll skip subjecting this lovely clinician’s technique to your expert critical internet analysis, since you already know you hate it and have nothing to learn from him, but he’ll be back in WNY come spring, and auditing is free.

                                          I usually bring snacks for everyone, so come on out.
                                          Maybe posting it over on the dressage forum, where more people have likely seen this clinician and can comment on the nature and execution of the exercise, would be way to have this explained in a way that doesn't sound like it came off of a Clinton Anderson DVD.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X