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Warmblood Import Nightmare

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  • I sincerely hope they aren’t funding this with credit cards over the long term. I hope there is a practical plan to repay the debt owing, because putting it on credit cards is such a terrible idea with their typical interest rates. I hope there is at least a plan to shift to a low-interest rate credit line... or some way to raise funds that doesn’t rely on internet charity. The thought of them sinking in this far financially gives me heart palpitations. They need an intervention by a pragmatist (e.g: legal or financial expert) that can really help them deal with this mess.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FlaxenChestnut View Post
      I sincerely hope they aren’t funding this with credit cards over the long term. I hope there is a practical plan to repay the debt owing, because putting it on credit cards is such a terrible idea with their typical interest rates. I hope there is at least a plan to shift to a low-interest rate credit line... or some way to raise funds that doesn’t rely on internet charity. The thought of them sinking in this far financially gives me heart palpitations. They need an intervention by a pragmatist (e.g: legal or financial expert) that can really help them deal with this mess.
      One of the trainer's recent posts and I quote " the seller will not give us anything back. I will have to find a place to send him to, pay board and training and hope they can sell him. Mind you he has been standing in a stall for two months so a little time and conditioning will be necessary for poor guy". I just can't even after reading this...

      Comment


      • Of course the trainer is going to beg people to dig them out of this financial mess because she sounds like the one who got them into it.

        This family needs to walk away from this trainer like yesterday. Also I agree what others have said about hiring a lawyer to represent the family and not the trainer. I’m no lawyer and I’m not saying the family needs to sue the trainer but somebody needs to look at her role in this....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
          Of course the trainer is going to beg people to dig them out of this financial mess because she sounds like the one who got them into it.

          This family needs to walk away from this trainer like yesterday. Also I agree what others have said about hiring a lawyer to represent the family and not the trainer. I’m no lawyer and I’m not saying the family needs to sue the trainer but somebody needs to look at her role in this....
          This! Temecula Jumper please pass this advice along to the family.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

            This! Temecula Jumper please pass this advice along to the family.
            Pretty sure OP is on the trainer’s side or at least loyal to her. Once this thread started pointing out how poorly the trainer was handling this, OP wasn’t happy. I’m guessing OP is also a client of this problem trainer which is why she can’t understand that people in this thread were being rational and not nasty. It’s such a shame how people can be so loyal to crappy, toxic, and incapable trainers because they just don’t know any other way.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

              Pretty sure OP is on the trainer’s side or at least loyal to her. Once this thread started pointing out how poorly the trainer was handling this, OP wasn’t happy. I’m guessing OP is also a client of this problem trainer which is why she can’t understand that people in this thread were being rational and not nasty. It’s such a shame how people can be so loyal to crappy, toxic, and incapable trainers because they just don’t know any other way.
              Yup. The trainer shared their own client’s financial information on Facebook in WIDELY read public posts about the client carrying large amounts of credit card debt.

              I have no idea if it is true or not... the client themself claims to have used credit cards to fund some of the expenses related to this horse.

              Perhaps it’s another poorly thought out strategy to gain more public sympathy... and more donations to the GFM account. Maybe it’s a temporary situation and the client has some sort of plan to manage all this in the long run.

              One thing is for sure though... it is completely inappropriate for ANY trainer to post publicly about a client funding horse related expenses via credit card debt.

              Frankly, there can be very real professional repercussions for people in the real world in a variety of occupations if you carry large amounts of credit card debt like this, and it is actually revealed in public posts on social media... and your employer gets wind of it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                Pretty sure OP is on the trainer’s side or at least loyal to her. Once this thread started pointing out how poorly the trainer was handling this, OP wasn’t happy. I’m guessing OP is also a client of this problem trainer which is why she can’t understand that people in this thread were being rational and not nasty. It’s such a shame how people can be so loyal to crappy, toxic, and incapable trainers because they just don’t know any other way.
                I tagged her with the slim hope of “when CoTH agrees...” etc etc.

                Comment


                • OP says she the OP is a practicing insurance defense attorney. So did she advise the family and trainer at the barn in the town where they board and live?

                  Dont blame the family for following advice from others. I hope the horse can be saved by any means necessary if he passes the European approved test for glanders.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
                    Of course the trainer is going to beg people to dig them out of this financial mess because she sounds like the one who got them into it.

                    This family needs to walk away from this trainer like yesterday. Also I agree what others have said about hiring a lawyer to represent the family and not the trainer. I’m no lawyer and I’m not saying the family needs to sue the trainer but somebody needs to look at her role in this....
                    Agreed. And they are now "finally" getting quotes on sending him back?

                    Also, what about the board and training the family was going to pay here in the US if horse got released????? Complaining that you'd have to pay that in Europe (which with some of the agents I know is CHEAP compared to California) is a red herring.

                    I dunno... I had some issues I think I mentioned waay up thread with the lab work in Europe. Import company wanted specific cELISA values for the piro tests on my horse before they'd take him because they didn't want him stuck with USDA with any suspect tests. The lab report I received just said "negative" after every test. Anyway, I was back in Mountain Time USA and was working for days to get it sorted out and get the deal closed and horse on his way. I was on the phone with the lab and the European vet and his office and the import company in the middle of the night sometimes. And updating the sellers on the problem.

                    There are numerous ways to be proactive and find solutions without just getting on Twitter and Facebook and GFM. I think all of the trainer's online rants just demonstrate how poorly she did at being an agent for and advising her clients.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                      OP says she the OP is a practicing insurance defense attorney. So did she advise the family and trainer at the barn in the town where they board and live?

                      Dont blame the family for following advice from others. I hope the horse can be saved by any means necessary if he passes the European approved test for glanders.
                      As someone mentioned to me probably not since it appears her loyalty is with the trainer so therefore has no interest in helping the family of it means casting the trainer in a bad light.

                      I think you’ve made the USDA and Jet Pets the wrong target. Many of us are eyeballing the trainer

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IPEsq View Post

                        Agreed. And they are now "finally" getting quotes on sending him back?

                        Also, what about the board and training the family was going to pay here in the US if horse got released????? Complaining that you'd have to pay that in Europe (which with some of the agents I know is CHEAP compared to California) is a red herring.

                        I dunno... I had some issues I think I mentioned waay up thread with the lab work in Europe. Import company wanted specific cELISA values for the piro tests on my horse before they'd take him because they didn't want him stuck with USDA with any suspect tests. The lab report I received just said "negative" after every test. Anyway, I was back in Mountain Time USA and was working for days to get it sorted out and get the deal closed and horse on his way. I was on the phone with the lab and the European vet and his office and the import company in the middle of the night sometimes. And updating the sellers on the problem.

                        There are numerous ways to be proactive and find solutions without just getting on Twitter and Facebook and GFM. I think all of the trainer's online rants just demonstrate how poorly she did at being an agent for and advising her clients.
                        The trainer has gotten numerous offers to help sell the horse in Europe.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by IPEsq View Post
                          That is weird on the insurance and maybe worth looking into more. Though I think most policies wouldn’t cover unless they do euthanize. And then it would need to really be the only viable option, which it’s not (even with the other options being more expensive). I can see a policy helping to pay for treatment but not USDA fees or board during this time.

                          At any rate, the policy I got started in Europe where risk of loss transferred to me and included transport to the US. Negative tests in Europe were a condition of sale and obtained prior to the policy start. So if it were me, I’d at least argue against the pre-existing condition thing. However, if their policy was only effective upon arrival to the states, maybe it’s different. I don’t know why they would do that even if the sale price included transport. Doesn’t seem to have shifted the risk any later in the transaction according to this seller. Otherwise they might have a contract claim as well, on which a Belgian lawyer could advise them.
                          With the disclaimer that I've never imported a horse, and thus don't know the ins/outs of doing so..I am thinking along those same lines. There is some interesting language used by the trainer. She has stated a few times on FB that the horse was purchased for $36,000, including import. And has indicated in a FB post that the insurance company denied "since the first blood test that showed suspect was upon arrival to the US." It makes me wonder when ownership actually transferred, and when and what insurance policies were actually purchased.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Backstage View Post
                            With the disclaimer that I've never imported a horse, and thus don't know the ins/outs of doing so..I am thinking along those same lines. There is some interesting language used by the trainer. She has stated a few times on FB that the horse was purchased for $36,000, including import. And has indicated in a FB post that the insurance company denied "since the first blood test that showed suspect was upon arrival to the US." It makes me wonder when ownership actually transferred, and when and what insurance policies were actually purchased.
                            Could the answer just be that the major medical/mortality policy restricts coverage to when the horse is within the US? Mine does. The insurance company’s argument would be that since he tested positive as soon as he arrived the condition must have arisen when he was outside the US. There are policies/riders that specifically cover the international portions of the purchase and transport, and having those would be the safest bet (of course hindsight is 20-20 there).
                            Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by FlaxenChestnut View Post
                              I sincerely hope they aren’t funding this with credit cards over the long term. I hope there is a practical plan to repay the debt owing, because putting it on credit cards is such a terrible idea with their typical interest rates. I hope there is at least a plan to shift to a low-interest rate credit line... or some way to raise funds that doesn’t rely on internet charity. The thought of them sinking in this far financially gives me heart palpitations. They need an intervention by a pragmatist (e.g: legal or financial expert) that can really help them deal with this mess.
                              I admit the thought of such a sum on a credit card even for a catastrophic human medical expense gives me palpitations as well.

                              I also feel sad for the teenager, not just because of the likely loss of this horse, but because of the guilt she must feel because it is her horse that is costing her family so much money and aggravation. Also, she will presumably be going to college soon, which is another looming expense for the family, even if there is money set aside/scholarships and so forth.

                              Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                              Comment


                              • Re: insurance. When I imported, I made sure the policy was in force from the minute the bill of sale was signed. I even made sure it covered the horse for gelding while in Spain,as well as in transport. It's not hard, and I am sorry if these folks didn't get the right coverage. BTW, no sale went through until negative test results were in hand, even though I paid for those tests. And I paid for the test to be done in the U.S. lab. My shipper advised me of that.

                                I didn't know about the U.S. lab part of things, but I had a thorough shipper. At that point, the horse was mine, but had he tested positive,he never would have gotten on the plane. This is truly a sad, horrible situation for all.

                                Comment


                                • Virginia Horse Mom I didn't mean the teen should feel guilty! I can only think of how I would have felt at 15 in such a situation, though! I would have still felt horrible, no matter how much I was assured this wasn't my fault. I do hope the family has tuition assistance with her college through the GI Bill, since this would be a great expense to be hit with before the child goes to college.
                                  Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom

                                    The child should not feel guilty. None of this is her fault. And it’s DEFINITELY not the moms fault that she was naive sand trusted a trainer she liked for advice on buying a horse for her daughter. I will indeed criticize the way they have tried to fundraise online for reasons I have previously mentioned... but that’s it. As far as the rest of the situation goes, and getting into this mess in the first place, the family and the horse have my whole hearted sympathy.

                                    Back to the military angle that we are supposed to stop focusing on... however... given that her Dad spent 30 years in uniform, and her older sibling also chose to serve, my guess is that the GI Bill benefit will be available to this girl to pay for 4 years of college.

                                    People might not be aware that GI Bill benefits are transferable yo spouses and kids if the service member doesn’t use them... but they are. It’s a really great benefit for military families, and with the rate of inflation with college tuition, I know more than one family that has used it to pay for one child’s tuition. So at least there’s that.
                                    So GI transfer is only if it happened in time. That’s not a thing when someone wants to make it a thing anymore.

                                    The GI bill has nothing to do with this. At the end of the day the trainer saw military and saw money and led this family astray.

                                    For me what is more appalling is the OP seeming having more loyalty to the trainer than the family that this is about.

                                    OP if you don’t know many people read these forums and many people move. Never ever will I have anything to do with your trainer.


                                    ETA: the military and it’s benefits to the SERVICE member, despite being transferable or not shouldn’t be an issue. I am disgusted with the trainer for taking advantage of this family.

                                    Comment


                                    • Denali6298 - that’s fair, and I can understand and respect what you are saying. I’m definitelypast the point of unbiased commentary... the whole thing has gotten under my skin in a major way. I’ll own it.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post
                                        Denali6298 - that’s fair, and I can understand and respect what you are saying. I’m definitelypast the point of unbiased commentary... the whole thing has gotten under my skin in a major way. I’ll own it.
                                        Well also to be fair the rules recently changed. I also wanted to emphasize the entitlements to the service member.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                          For me what is more appalling is the OP seeming having more loyalty to the trainer than the family that this is about.

                                          .
                                          Not sure how you could infer that from any of my posts... but regardless, you seem to have very strong opinions on this subject. Why don't you post your feelings directly on the trainer's FB page so both the trainer and family can see and respond? Or are you only tough when you are posting anonymously behind your keyboard?

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