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Warmblood Import Nightmare

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  • Maybe I am taking things to literally but BlueBobRadar I read that to mean that the owners did not know that was an option that the trainer never gave them that choice.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
      Maybe I am taking things to literally but BlueBobRadar I read that to mean that the owners did not know that was an option that the trainer never gave them that choice.
      If that’s the case I’d be finding a new trainer and sue them as my agent and NOT providing me with all the financial options.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

        If that’s the case I’d be finding a new trainer and sue them as my agent and NOT providing me with all the financial options.
        I do not KNOW it is the case. I was just putting the comments together like some other people have. Likely it is probably some where in the middle (they knew but did not understand, the trainer thought they did understand, blah blah blah).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

          I do not KNOW it is the case. I was just putting the comments together like some other people have. Likely it is probably some where in the middle (they knew but did not understand, the trainer thought they did understand, blah blah blah).
          I didn’t read that as you stating a fact. And I agree it’s probably somewhere in the middle.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
            The mother's post (referenced above) is very well written. Sad but not all the screaming drama that the trainer is doing. She states that they should have done things differently and that they did not know what they were doing, etc.

            This whole situation is sad. The poor young lady.
            Yes, mom seems to be more realistic here. And has realized in hindsight that shipping back immediately was the right thing to do, but I can't blame her for not doing so - even in the anecdotes where people importing ran into an issue and shipped the horse back, they were either experienced importers or they relied on the (strong) advice of their experienced trainer.

            The owner/mom was relying on !!! trainer who doesn't seem super experienced with importing and what to do when that runs into difficulties. In her shoes, with no experience myself, I'd have probably done the same.

            I would have a lawyer review the insurance paperwork. The GFM seems pretty dead, I see no reason why it should suddenly start bringing in loads of money. The trainer, for some reason (at least how I read her update) seems committed to keeping the horse one way or another, inc shipping back and trying to sell; the euth option is much cheaper and is getting comparatively cheaper with every passing day.

            But the insurance option might still be viable. If it tested negative before boarding, and positive on arrival, when exactly does the insurance kick in? Had an accident happened in the air, say a fall, broken bone - would the insurance have paid out? Because if yes, shouldn't they accept the horse being ok based on the testing that was legitimate to the origin jurisdiction?
            Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

            Comment


            • That is weird on the insurance and maybe worth looking into more. Though I think most policies wouldn’t cover unless they do euthanize. And then it would need to really be the only viable option, which it’s not (even with the other options being more expensive). I can see a policy helping to pay for treatment but not USDA fees or board during this time.

              At any rate, the policy I got started in Europe where risk of loss transferred to me and included transport to the US. Negative tests in Europe were a condition of sale and obtained prior to the policy start. So if it were me, I’d at least argue against the pre-existing condition thing. However, if their policy was only effective upon arrival to the states, maybe it’s different. I don’t know why they would do that even if the sale price included transport. Doesn’t seem to have shifted the risk any later in the transaction according to this seller. Otherwise they might have a contract claim as well, on which a Belgian lawyer could advise them.

              Comment


              • I'm sure I'm going to sound like a big meany poopy head, but GFMs for purposes like this really rub me the wrong way. I feel terrible for the horse and the kid, but IMO it shouldn't be socially acceptable to ask for hand-outs to fund your "large, expensive pet" (to quote another thread).

                Poor horse.
                Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                  The mother's post (referenced above) is very well written. Sad but not all the screaming drama that the trainer is doing. She states that they should have done things differently and that they did not know what they were doing, etc.

                  This whole situation is sad. The poor young lady.
                  I really hope that the horse can be saved somehow, It's unfortunate that business writing is not the trainer's strong suit..
                  “A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                    If that’s the case I’d be finding a new trainer and sue them as my agent and NOT providing me with all the financial options.
                    That was my gut reaction looking at the public Facebook posts a few days ago. Hence my post saying these owners need to get their OWN lawyer who has zero connection with the trainer.

                    The mother’s most recent sad post about all the things she wasn’t aware of going into it, and then the trainer’s follow on update saying that they may be shipping the horse back... but have yet to identify a dealer on the ground in Europe who would be willing to resell this horse for them....

                    Uggh. I can see the freight train that is called “expensive lessons in terms of what it means to own a horse” continuing to just CRUSH this naive family because they have not yet gotten advice from someone competent who is TOTALLY independent of this trainer.

                    Look folks (meaning the actual owners)... if you are out there reading this thread... call up someone different (a well regarded horse professional) in California for advice. Today. Yeah... it’s not loyal. But per your own posts... you are funding this bleeding using credit cards. Call someone else, and get yourself competent professional advice. Talk to a trainer who does do A LOT of importing and has good contacts and experience. And get your own lawyer. Not because of the vet treatment thing from back in December. But because of the ENTIRE situation. From start to finish.

                    And please, try and wrap your head around the likelihood that the horse might need to be put down. It is VERY sad. But there are worse things than putting a horse down painlessly and humanely when the animal and owners are stuck in an impossible situation like this.

                    Comment


                    • This whole thing is hard to really form specific opinions on as the family and trainer have never posted here on COTH and we really don’t know what contracts exist,, how they are worded and don’t know what is or is not covered on the insurance.

                      Seems trainer is still at the wheel decision wise as the bills continue to grow, and grow, IMO that’s another mistake.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • Virginia Horse Mom 100% agree with your post. TBH, one thing that struck me was the fact that such a large percentage of these additional expenses are being funded on credit. Again, we can only base it on the game of telephone via Facebook posts, but it does sound like the trainer represented the import as a way to save a great deal of money for a family already stretching its budget. While ultimately the family must make decisions about its own financial welfare, to present importing a horse as relatively easy and inexpensive seems unwise, to put it mildly. Even if this nightmare scenario did not occur, what if the imported horse needed additional training or incurred other medical expenses? I know all too well myself that spending money on horses is never rational, but it does seem as if the trainer was not helpful in enabling the family to make a good decision about importing in the first place, to put it mildly.
                        Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom

                          I’m completely with you.

                          I’ve hesitated to post this opinion as well, but since Denali already got push back from others who didn’t seem to understand why using the “military family” angle in the go fund me pitch to help raise money to “save” a horse who might “lose his life” because of this unfortunate situation with quarantine and glanders testing REALLY rubs people who are either in the military, or have close family and friends in the military the wrong way (to put it mildly) I’m going to do my best to inject a dose of perspective. In the interest of public education on a sensitive subject.

                          As of January 20, 2020, according to the Department of Defense 4,419 members of the US military have lost their lives as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom (essentially, the conflict in Iraq post 9/11)

                          As of January 20, 2020, according to the Department of Defense 2,351 members of the US military have lost their lives as part of Operation Enduring Freedom (essentially the conflict in Afghanistan post 9/11)

                          Many of these people had spouses and children who would give ANYTHING for their loved one to have made it all the way to 30 years with their chosen honorable career, and then retired and spent time with the family. Please understand that neither Denali nor myself nor anyone else who mentioned the impropriety of bringing up the military service in the go fund me plea was trying to beat up on this family or be mean. But some of us do actually know people and families who have lost loved ones, or have lost friends ourselves... and that Go Fund Me account rubbed us the wrong way.

                          This family is fortunate to have their father home with them after his many years in uniform. It’s honestly that simple.

                          They can fund raise for the horse all they want via go fund me and Facebook... but the military service part of the public pleas for financial assistance should have been edited out days ago.
                          Seriously- using the military aspect by them has been beaten to death by you and others. As a member of a military family (I am) - let it freaking go.
                          Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                          Comment


                          • To be fair, lots of people import horses all the time with few or no problems. So it probably seemed like a perfectly rational idea at the start. Unfortunately, like so many things involving horses, when there are complications, the bills start to add up in a hurry.

                            I am so sorry for the horse and the kid, as well as the whole family. I hope they can come up with a solution.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom

                              I’m completely with you.

                              I’ve hesitated to post this opinion as well, but since Denali already got push back from others who didn’t seem to understand why using the “military family” angle in the go fund me pitch to help raise money to “save” a horse who might “lose his life” because of this unfortunate situation with quarantine and glanders testing REALLY rubs people who are either in the military, or have close family and friends in the military the wrong way (to put it mildly) I’m going to do my best to inject a dose of perspective. In the interest of public education on a sensitive subject.

                              As of January 20, 2020, according to the Department of Defense 4,419 members of the US military have lost their lives as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom (essentially, the conflict in Iraq post 9/11)

                              As of January 20, 2020, according to the Department of Defense 2,351 members of the US military have lost their lives as part of Operation Enduring Freedom (essentially the conflict in Afghanistan post 9/11)

                              Many of these people had spouses and children who would give ANYTHING for their loved one to have made it all the way to 30 years with their chosen honorable career, and then retired and spent time with the family. Please understand that neither Denali nor myself nor anyone else who mentioned the impropriety of bringing up the military service in the go fund me plea was trying to beat up on this family or be mean. But some of us do actually know people and families who have lost loved ones, or have lost friends ourselves... and that Go Fund Me account rubbed us the wrong way.

                              This family is fortunate to have their father home with them after his many years in uniform. It’s honestly that simple.

                              They can fund raise for the horse all they want via go fund me and Facebook... but the military service part of the public pleas for financial assistance should have been edited out days ago.
                              To be fair it’s the trainer mentioning the military everywhere and its people on CoTH giving me the push back. That being said, the trainer playing the military card also adds to my distaste for how she has handled all of this. I’m assuming not immediately suggesting to the family to send the horse back has to do with her inexperience and/or the commission.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post

                                Seriously- using the military aspect by them has been beaten to death by you and others. As a member of a military family (I am) - let it freaking go.
                                As the actual service member...... it’s not something we take lightly and service members who play the card are frowned upon. At least in my branch.

                                ETA: As well as their friends and family who do the same. It’s just not cool.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post

                                  Seriously- using the military aspect by them has been beaten to death by you and others. As a member of a military family (I am) - let it freaking go.
                                  I respectfully disagree that it has been beaten to death. I have sat on my hands for days not posting any number of things I could say about this.

                                  And thank you to your family for their service.

                                  Comment


                                  • Based on the FB Update - seems like a no brainer - there is such a thing as throwing good money after bad and this trainer seems very good at it. Yes of course it's heartbreaking, yes of course you want to try to save this animal - but again at what cost to the owners? Why on earth are they even contemplating spending additional cash to ship the horse back? I just read some of the comments post Update - trainer says they might send the horse back, pay board and Training fees so it can be resold. Common sense has to override emotion at some point. It's hard to tell how much the owners are actually involved - and at some point when the expenses are mounting you eliminate the 3rd party and take over, take action. There is no way I would not be the 1st point of contact and decision maker in something like this.

                                    What is the status of the horse ? still ongoing fever? positive tests etc.
                                    Last edited by gottagrey; Jan. 23, 2020, 12:00 PM.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom

                                      Both the trainer and the mother posted about it. And the child’s older brother is currently active duty, and that was also brought up in comments on Facebook trying to drum up sympathy.

                                      Furthermore, the trainer specifically wanted the go fund me plea to be shared to military families... presumably because she assumed that military families would be inclined to sympathize with this family and donate money. And brainstorming on social media included sharing the go fund me with Gary Sinise... because he does so much fundraising for wounded vets and their families. They did actually share it to his public page.

                                      For the record... I have immediate family who closely follows some of the fundraising that Gary Sinise does because they are also double amputees (like his Forest Gump character). Sinise does GREAT work. Sharing this GFM to his page... it’s inappropriate.
                                      Oh I missed all that. Holy moly!

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom

                                        Both the trainer and the mother posted about it. And the child’s older brother is currently active duty, and that was also brought up in comments on Facebook trying to drum up sympathy.

                                        Furthermore, the trainer specifically wanted the go fund me plea to be shared to military families... presumably because she assumed that military families would be inclined to sympathize with this family and donate money. And brainstorming on social media included sharing the go fund me with Gary Sinise... because he does so much fundraising for wounded vets and their families. They did actually share it to his public page.

                                        For the record... I have immediate family who closely follows some of the fundraising that Gary Sinise does because they are also double amputees (like his Forest Gump character). Sinise does GREAT work. Sharing this GFM to his page... it’s inappropriate.
                                        OMG - they shared this on Gary Sinise's page? I skimmed thru the FB posts and honestly tweets to the President, wanting to get news/media attention so celebrities would pitch in - pitch if for what? This is a horse that potentially has or is a carrier of a once eradicated disease and these screwballs want to drum up cash from people ? This is considered a luxury item - it's not a home or a car for a disabled vet. They want to sympathy and funds to help cover bad decisions they or the trainer continues to make on the owners behalf. It's one thing to set up a GFM for a trainer who's barn has been hit with EVH-1 and they're doing everything they can to save their horses but this. SMH

                                        Comment


                                        • Sharing with Gary Sinise is the epitome of disrespect. His foundation and good works help so many veterans and their families. It’s not to help a family that over spent on a horse purchase due to being ill advised by the professional they trusted.

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