Sport Horse Spotlight

Real Estate Spotlight

Sale Spotlight

  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Warmblood Import Nightmare

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • So, is there a plan to get this poor house out of limbo? Euthanasia? Shipping back to Europe? Or is he still sitting there with no solution in sight?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WildLittleWren View Post
      So, is there a plan to get this poor house out of limbo? Euthanasia? Shipping back to Europe? Or is he still sitting there with no solution in sight?
      Seems to be.

      I'm a bit confused on who is Jet Pets' actual client. The trainer posted email correspondence between the importing company (Horseflight) and Jet Pets about the increased day rate. So is Horseflight the client of Jet Pets, and the trainer/owner the client of Horseflight? Trainer claims to get nothing but non-itemized 5k invoices - but those invoices are from Trans World Equestrian, which is Horseflight's legal name. So it looks like Horseflight is the go-between/ actual client of Jet Pets here, which may be why Jet Pets is not talking directly to the trainer.
      Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

      Comment


      • My understanding is that HorseFlight is the import agent and that, as the agent, correspondence with JetPets should be through them. There are multiple players here (seller, buyer, trainer, agent, importer, government), but for some reason Jet Pets is bearing the brunt of the criticism. I truly believe everyone has just been working toward doing what’s best for the horse, but ultimately, the owners need to make a decision.

        ETA: That’s why I mentioned earlier that I would have thought the agent (HorseFlight) had a contract of some sort with Jet Pets.
        Last edited by FlaxenChestnut; Jan. 20, 2020, 11:51 AM. Reason: ETA

        Comment


        • I do wonder when they'll make a decision. So unfair for the horse to be stall bound for months.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by js

            I’m confused:

            The article says the gelding is 18 yrs old and was showing in Europe by the owners of Hyperion Farm in FL for showing by them. The girl he was purchased is 20 according to her webpage not 15, she has also trained in Europe, so they don’t sound terrible strapped for cash. And as an 18 yr old dressage horse with extensive show records and win, guessing his price was more than stated.
            Says horse was flown into Miami not LAX.

            I’m I missing something? Because the stories are a bit different.
            I will edit my post with the link to the Hyperion Farm announcement to make it clearer, but that was about Sagacious, a different horse that ran into a similar issue with the Glanders test in quarantine back in 2017.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by js

              I’m confused:

              The article says the gelding is 18 yrs old and was showing in Europe by the owners of Hyperion Farm in FL for showing by them. The girl he was purchased is 20 according to her webpage not 15, she has also trained in Europe, so they don’t sound terrible strapped for cash. And as an 18 yr old dressage horse with extensive show records and win, guessing his price was more than stated.
              Says horse was flown into Miami not LAX.

              is This about the same horse or two different horses and two different stories?
              What article? People have posted articles about similar situations in the past. There's no articles about this case, just the FB postings and this thread.
              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

              Comment


              • Originally posted by js

                I’m confused:

                The article says the gelding is 18 yrs old and was showing in Europe by the owners of Hyperion Farm in FL for showing by them. The girl he was purchased is 20 according to her webpage not 15, she has also trained in Europe, so they don’t sound terrible strapped for cash. And as an 18 yr old dressage horse with extensive show records and win, guessing his price was more than stated.
                Says horse was flown into Miami not LAX.

                is This about the same horse or two different horses and two different stories?
                What you quoted is the story of Sagacious SF, a dressage horse who went through similar quarantine issues in 2017 (see: https://dressage-news.com/2017/08/24...s-clear-horse/ for more about Sagacious). The horse in this story is a 6yo jumper owned by a 15yo in California.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by js View Post
                  I would tend to agree that there is likely nothing wrong with the horse. The stress of the trip probably got him run down enough to spike a fever and have questionable blood tests but nothing positive. I don't think I would have issue with owning him.

                  Is there a quarantine period prior to shipping or just a one time blood test for glanders? So horse tested negative in Europe with a better blood test for Glanders, then he some how contracted it in flight or even at the quarantine facility in the US. As the owner I would sue Jet Pet's for not have properly clean facilities at the shipping point, in the plane and even at the US quarantine facility. If the horse truly didn't have Glanders when he left then he got it from some thing or another horse enroute. Either there was a horse onboard that is a carrier or has Glanders but somehow tested negative or there was one at some point on the plane or at either facility where the horse contracted it. Have they retested any other horses that were on the flight?

                  Maybe impossible to prove but the horse got it somewhere if the USDA is saying that is the case. I wish the owners would demand or could demand the European test be done here. Otherwise I would be looking to sue to recoup my costs claiming the horse was exposed inflight or at the facility in the US. Make them prove otherwise because he left Europe with a clean bill of health.
                  The horse could be a carrier and the trip brought forward the disease - no one knows for sure. The problem is that he keeps testing positive and the USDA isn't going to change their standing on not allowing him into the country with a positive test. Different test, but the positive result says the horse has something the USDA doesn't want in the country and that's the law. Doubt he picked it up on the trip since the other horses all tested negative on the second test for them.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Applecore View Post

                    What you quoted is the story of Sagacious SF, a dressage horse who went through similar quarantine issues in 2017 (see: https://dressage-news.com/2017/08/24...s-clear-horse/ for more about Sagacious). The horse in this story is a 6yo jumper owned by a 15yo in California.
                    Got it. Either I've had too much coffee or not enough Thanks for straightening me out.

                    Comment


                    • #FREEHIRENO
                      Last edited by downen; Jan. 20, 2020, 02:34 PM.
                      TypaGraphics
                      Graphic Design & Websites
                      typagraphics.com

                      Comment


                      • What a nightmare for everyone! I can't imagine the stress that's causing, not only financially but mentally as well. I had a pony when I was younger who was imported from Canada, but thankfully I bought him from the person who imported him so didn't have to deal with quarantine, etc.
                        Hope the poor pony gets some resolution soon. (Yes I know it's not a pony, but all horses are ponies regardless)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                          I’m with you on not releasing the horse. It’s sad, but protocol is protocol... it needs to be followed. I just can’t figure out why the family and trainer aren’t focusing on how to get it back k to Europe yet... or just putting the poor horse down at this point.

                          Insurance was brought up earlier in the discussion. Per comments made by the trainer on social media... the insurance company has expressed the position that the horse had some sort of “Pre existing condition” Prior to shipping... so it is not covered. Also, the fact that there is a different CFT test in Europe than the one used here might be an issue negating the policy as well.
                          Livestock insurance should cover this very case though. It does for cows. you should get a long time of coverage for quarantine if there is a problem. I think it is 2 months or so standard coverage. It sounds like maybe the insurance was not bought correctly unless they do not offer the same cover for horses as for other livestock? And of course you should not accept the insurance saying 'no" without argument. They often try to deny claims. I would consult a legal expert.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post
                            What a nightmare for everyone! I can't imagine the stress that's causing, not only financially but mentally as well. I had a pony when I was younger who was imported from Canada, but thankfully I bought him from the person who imported him so didn't have to deal with quarantine, etc.
                            Hope the poor pony gets some resolution soon. (Yes I know it's not a pony, but all horses are ponies regardless)
                            Importing from Canada doesn't have the quarantine requirements as importing from overseas.

                            Comment


                            • I do not think anyone would be raging against the USDA and JetPets about this if the family wasn’t cash strapped. Yes horses get held up in quarantine but from posts on the FB, by people who routinely import, say they cut there losses at the first negative BECAUSE of this. More power to the poster seeing this through with her horse and others who do the same.

                              I do think the USDA needs to get onboard with the more accurate testing, however, I also believe this family was led astray by the very professionals they trusted to guide them through this process. I feel terrible for the family and the horse. The trainer leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I ponder what she did/said to get a cease and desist letter. I also have a bad taste in my mouth about the trainer for not asking for advice sooner (clearly she’s in over her head) and heeded the advice she got.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by caryledee View Post

                                Importing from Canada doesn't have the quarantine requirements as importing from overseas.
                                Out of curiosity, does anybody know what Glanders test Canada uses for European imports?

                                Comment


                                • I just had a scary thought.

                                  There were 15 horses held as they were contacts of Hireno. Those owners will have related costs somewhere in the 70-80 K (collectively) Are those owners in a position to place a claim against the owner of Hireno for reimbursement of related expenses? If so, that poor family is potentially up for another shock.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by punchy View Post

                                    Out of curiosity, does anybody know what Glanders test Canada uses for European imports?
                                    From the https://inspection.gc.ca/animal-heal.../1325285922473 website, where more details can be found:

                                    “During post entry quarantine in Canada, the horses must be retested for Glanders using a complement fixation test negative at 1/5 or, where applicable, an alternate test acceptable to CFIA.”

                                    I believe Canada also offers some compensation, where eligible, for owners whose animals need to be euthanized upon positive test results for these controlled diseases.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by FlaxenChestnut View Post

                                      From the https://inspection.gc.ca/animal-heal.../1325285922473 website, where more details can be found:

                                      “During post entry quarantine in Canada, the horses must be retested for Glanders using a complement fixation test negative at 1/5 or, where applicable, an alternate test acceptable to CFIA.”

                                      I believe Canada also offers some compensation, where eligible, for owners whose animals need to be euthanized upon positive test results for these controlled diseases.
                                      All US would have to do to change protocol is make a proposal to OIE that WB or alternative to CFt would be accepted, as it is in many other countries. I have no idea, when this issue happens as frequently as it does, why the change hasn’t happened yet or when it will. I would imagine it will take deep pockets, several parties and a few savvy attorneys to get the wheels in motion.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by paintedpony View Post
                                        I just had a scary thought.

                                        There were 15 horses held as they were contacts of Hireno. Those owners will have related costs somewhere in the 70-80 K (collectively) Are those owners in a position to place a claim against the owner of Hireno for reimbursement of related expenses? If so, that poor family is potentially up for another shock.
                                        While we should never underestimate the creativity of plaintiffs' attorneys, I don't see how they would have a viable claim. Hireno's owners owe no duty to the owners of his fellow travelers. There is no evidence they knew or should have known Hireno would test positive, so it's not like they knowingly or even negligently exposed others.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by charlieTBD View Post

                                          Livestock insurance should cover this very case though. It does for cows. you should get a long time of coverage for quarantine if there is a problem. I think it is 2 months or so standard coverage. It sounds like maybe the insurance was not bought correctly unless they do not offer the same cover for horses as for other livestock? And of course you should not accept the insurance saying 'no" without argument. They often try to deny claims. I would consult a legal expert.
                                          I hear you. I’m just repeating what the trainer’s comments on Facebook indicated about a lack of coverage. And someone way earlier on this thread mentioned the differences in the North American CFT vs European CFT could pose a problem as well with an insurance policy.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X