Sport Horse Spotlight

8ISF-5732

Real Estate Spotlight

97 Spring Lane (1)

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Warmblood Import Nightmare

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I have been following this horrible situation from the beginning. What a nightmare for all involved.
    I am curious why you decided to bump the test forward a couple of days? Is he done with antibiotics?

    Jingles for a miracle test result today.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bingbingbing View Post
      I have been following this horrible situation from the beginning. What a nightmare for all involved.
      I am curious why you decided to bump the test forward a couple of days? Is he done with antibiotics?

      Jingles for a miracle test result today.
      From what I understand, they have given up hope and don't want to waste even more $$ postponing the inevitable.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CanteringCarrot View Post

        Yeah, I agree. I wasn't going to go there, but it was odd. Who cares/why mention they're a "military family/dad was in/retired" she is a "tall skinny girl" All irrelevant and weird IMO.

        But I do get emotions are running high and that the trainer is really trying to help a client.
        People mention the military thing to garner sympathy and/or special treatment. It drives me nuts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post
          This whole situation is just really weird. I absolutely understand the strict protocol on preventing glanders from coming back into the US, but something about the way this has all gone down just really bothers me. I think it's that the horse was isolated for so long with no treatment for anything, not even the possibility of treatment (like, we can treat for this and then retest in X time), and if they are doing hardcore quarantining the horse was probably only handled by people wearing that quarantine gear. I'm sure he was super stressed out by all of it, which you know doesn't help anyone get healthy.

          I don't think they should have just said "oh well, he tested positive on our tests that we are legally required to go by but negative on others so we should just let him go free". But I also don't think an apparently sick horse should go that long without treatment, or that a possibly perfectly healthy horse *I dont count a momentary fever during a period of high stress as being unhealthy) should just be euthanized without even trying to treat him.

          And that this was all dragged out with the family footing the bill for it all? There has to be something illegal about that. Or at least a way for them to get something back for all of that.

          Agree that the letter from the trainer was entirely too emotional. If I were the vet I probably would have just rolled my eyes at it and then ignored it.
          So the horse isnt sick but should still get antibiotics to treat some imaginary illness to pass a test? Or is the horse actually sick in which case there is a concern the test isnt a false positive?

          As an owner you assume the price of quarantine and following the requirements that go along with it. There's a flowchart I posted above that goes over testing protocol. It's the USDA document easily googled. Why shouldn't the family foot the bill? Nobody is drawing anything out. You have to wait several days/week between tests.

          The USDA vet could love this horse, this family, and probably feels absolutely broken up by this but he/she is not losing their job/license/reputation over it. If they release this horse without proper testing results and it infects other horses causing the US to lose its negative status hell will break loose.

          Comment


          • I'm very sad for this family and this horse, but I understand why the horse is not being allowed in. Glanders in horses is typically a chronic or latent infection - they don't necessarily show clinical signs but they are infected and can infect others. It's easy to reintroduce the disease into a disease-free population.

            https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0214963 I found this article quite helpful for explaining the difference in the CFT versus the Western in terms of their sensitivity (ability to correctly detect a negative result) and specificity (ability to correctly detect a positive result).
            https://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CanteringCarrot View Post

              Yeah, I agree. I wasn't going to go there, but it was odd. Who cares/why mention they're a "military family/dad was in/retired" she is a "tall skinny girl" All irrelevant and weird IMO.

              But I do get emotions are running high and that the trainer is really trying to help a client.
              First off, I feel horrible for this family and for this horse that has been stuck in a quarantine stall for 8 weeks. They probably thought they were safe importing a gelding vs a mare, much less to go wrong. The money that has been sunk into this horse beyond the initial purchase and import is likely going to severely hamper this family for many years.

              I'd be pretty tempted if I were the family to question whether all the requirements that the USDA put forth to move the horse to Chino are being met at Jetpets.

              About the above quote - it's definitely designed to garner additional sympathy. My cynical side sees plenty of horses being offered to the girl to ride/show if this horse does not get out of quarantine/goes back to Europe.

              Comment


              • When’s the test? Holding my breath

                Comment


                • Correct me if I’m wrong but if there is a true case of Glanders isn’t that horse’s country of origin banned from exporting until the disease is isolated and eradicated within the country? Wouldnt it be in both countries interest to prove this isn’t glanders, preferably with the horse still alive? I would try reaching out to the appropriate European representatives and equine lawyers in Europe to try to get the horse back on his own turf, where he has passed their tests and they can prove he doesn’t have it, if they are willing to do it without autopsy, which seems likely since they have more thorough animal welfare laws than the US (see correspondence with european Glanders expert a few posts above) Is the agent still willing to take the horse back? Still not convinced Europe will not grant the horse access into the country. At least, when our horse was a 1 and we were looking at possibly sending him back, he would have been allowed reentry had he not finally tested negative on the CFt here.

                  If the family is not still in touch with Chapman, now would be a good time to reach out to him to try to ensure the horse’s return to Europe...if its financially feasible, that is.
                  Last edited by AppaloosaDressage; Jan. 14, 2020, 11:54 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by AppaloosaDressage View Post
                    Correct me if I’m wrong but if there is a true case of Glanders isn’t that horse’s country of origin banned from exporting until the disease is isolated and eradicated within the country? Wouldnt it be in both countries interest to prove this isn’t glanders, preferably with the horse still alive? I would try reaching out to the appropriate European representatives and equine lawyers in Europe to try to get the horse back on his own turf, where he has passed their tests and they can prove he doesn’t have it, if they are willing to do it without autopsy, which seems likely since they have more thorough animal welfare laws than the US (see correspondence with european Glanders expert a few posts above) Is the agent still willing to take the horse back? Still not convinced Europe will not grant the horse access into the country. At least, when our horse was a 1 and we were looking at possibly sending him back, he would have been allowed reentry had he not finally tested negative on the CFt here.
                    Was he on antibiotics at the time his CFt was going down and his status was in question?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post

                      Was he on antibiotics at the time his CFt was going down and his status was in question?
                      No antibiotics, however this horse wasn’t started on SMZ until very late and the game and the offer to return to Europe was still on the table before then, when he was a 3 on the CFT, and the USDA did not believe it was Glanders then. So why would it suddenly no longer be an option?
                      Last edited by AppaloosaDressage; Jan. 14, 2020, 12:40 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Maybe it’s my ignorance on the topic, but I feel like we are not getting the whole story.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AppaloosaDressage View Post

                          Right... but it tested negative 8 times on what is widely accepted as the more reliable test.
                          But it still tests positive on another test, to my understanding.

                          I'm also not sure why they would continue to hold the horse and retest and retest over and over with the same end result.

                          If a horse tests positive, what is the official protocol? One and done? How many retests? Tests negative on which tests?
                          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                            Maybe it’s my ignorance on the topic, but I feel like we are not getting the whole story.
                            Yeah, didn’t want speak up directly but...nobody personally involved has been on here and that trainer letter that was posted was...weird and rambling. We can’t really do anything about this except offer sympathy to the owners and recommend the OP here, who I assume is in close, daily personal contact with tthe owners to tell them to hire a lawyer and do as directed by said lawyer.
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by findeight View Post

                              Yeah, didn’t want speak up directly but...nobody personally involved has been on here and that trainer letter that was posted was...weird and rambling.
                              I can’t imagine the USDA would act in such a manner as is being presented without a reason. I understand others have had struggles with imports but this seems even beyond that.

                              The whole “military family” thing made me think about it.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                As someone above pointed out, the Facebook post from the trainer is public. Anyone that feels they are not getting the full story can go there and ask your questions directly to the parties involved, and you can feel free to tell the trainer that she’s a terrible writer and that the family should quit playing the military card.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Temecula Jumper View Post
                                  As someone above pointed out, the Facebook post from the trainer is public. Anyone that feels they are not getting the full story can go there and ask your questions directly to the parties involved, and you can feel free to tell the trainer that she’s a terrible writer and that the family should quit playing the military card.
                                  I was saying we are not getting the full story from you. I do understand that you are not privy to everything, but I doubt we’d get the full story from the trainer as well.

                                  Yes it is embarrassing and and really crass to use the military card. People choosing the military for a career should not be used to gain special treatment.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post

                                    But it still tests positive on another test, to my understanding.

                                    I'm also not sure why they would continue to hold the horse and retest and retest over and over with the same end result.

                                    If a horse tests positive, what is the official protocol? One and done? How many retests? Tests negative on which tests?
                                    This is for basically everything tested for at quarantine. Theres a flow chart for glanders in there. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...JDnsM9n-vMjcot

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by kmwines View Post

                                      So the horse isnt sick but should still get antibiotics to treat some imaginary illness to pass a test? Or is the horse actually sick in which case there is a concern the test isnt a false positive?

                                      As an owner you assume the price of quarantine and following the requirements that go along with it. There's a flowchart I posted above that goes over testing protocol. It's the USDA document easily googled. Why shouldn't the family foot the bill? Nobody is drawing anything out. You have to wait several days/week between tests.

                                      The USDA vet could love this horse, this family, and probably feels absolutely broken up by this but he/she is not losing their job/license/reputation over it. If they release this horse without proper testing results and it infects other horses causing the US to lose its negative status hell will break loose.
                                      If you read what I said, I agree with you, they shouldn't just release the horse. I sure as heck dont want any horses here getting glanders.

                                      My point was, if the horse is sick (with glanders or something else), I would think that they would have had some kind of option for treating the horse. If it does have glanders, from what I understood, antibiotics might cure symptoms but the disease would still be present and presumably come up positive still (though I may very well be wrong). But if the whole thing was "he came up positive on this test that can have false positives, but he also has a fever so we are going to assume he has glanders and not bother trying to treat him"? Idk, that's weird to me.

                                      And not to mention, isn't glanders treatable anyways? I mean, could you not try treating it, give it some time if needed before testing so you don't get a false negative (if you even can with the test they used, sounds like it's more likely to show a false pos), and then release him? And if that isn't an option, then tell them straight up their options are euthanasia or sending the horse back, or to retest and wait for results which will take this specific amount of time then decide between the options if it's still positive, but they cannot under any circumstances let this horse anywhere in the US? Which may be what they did say, it just sounded to me like they were kind of vague about what could be done to the family.


                                      Thinking about it though...if they did say that the only choices were euthanasia or to send the horse back, but can't euthanize without the family's consent, EU wouldn't take the horse back, and THAT's why the horse has been stuck in limbo...that's a whole different story.

                                      I think I feel the worst for that poor horse. I don't think he is going to make it out of this situation.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                                        Maybe it’s my ignorance on the topic, but I feel like we are not getting the whole story.
                                        I actually completely agree.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post

                                          I actually completely agree.
                                          I feel this is most likely a bureaucratic catch-22 situation, and those don't get resolved quickly.

                                          Horse is most likely fine, and USDA vet most likely knows that, given the prevalence of this disease in the country of origin as well as the multiple negative WB results. Hence no panic up the import chain. However, the recognized test to clear horses for US import is the CFT, which while it is known to give false positives and has cross-reactivity with other organisms, is the official test the horse must clear.

                                          That's why they probably gave so many re-test chances, in the hope the false positive would clear. But if it is cross-reacting with something else, it'll keep popping positive.
                                          Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X