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WWYD - Dumped by a sale horse, do you share? - Edited

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  • WWYD - Dumped by a sale horse, do you share? - Edited

    A few months ago I went to try a sale horse. He was advertised as a solid citizen, OTTB but had years off the track.

    Edited because ....
    Last edited by _Zara; Nov. 26, 2019, 12:18 AM.

  • #2
    That's a tough one! You don't want to end up in the middle of a lawsuit--so if it were me, I'd have to roll with "buyer beware" mentality and hope that potential buyers do a trial before committing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yikes, that is scary. Honestly getting involved with something like that such a no-win situation. As frustrating as it is, I would stay away from it. I'm sorry that happened to you. Shame on that trainer for trying to sell him like that, it's such a disservice to the horse (and of course dangerous to new riders).

      You said the horse has been for sale for awhile, I'm sure other people have discovered what you have from the situation. Hopefully, that seller will come to terms with what she really has. You could always try to explain that to the seller, and just say for the sake of your horse they should consider what they are really doing.

      He will really hurt a green rider, and could also end up in a bad home/situation from an ill-equipped people buying that horse, then getting rid of him later because they can't handle him. If the seller is like most horse people though, I doubt they will care/want to hear it from you.

      Comment


      • #4
        How about messaging the seller, “Oh this horse sounds lovely! I noticed he has the same name as the one who launched me, gave me a concussion, and broke my ribs (or whatever) a few months ago. This must be a different horse though because he sounds very safe.” Just kidding, kind of...
        Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Libby2563 View Post
          How about messaging the seller, “Oh this horse sounds lovely! I noticed he has the same name as the one who launched me, gave me a concussion, and broke my ribs (or whatever) a few months ago. This must be a different horse though because he sounds very safe.” Just kidding, kind of...

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            He's practically being given away at this point, so I'm guessing I'm not the only person who didn't agree with him

            Libby2563 I literally LOL'ed

            Comment


            • #7
              I have stepped in when friends are looking at a horse that I have seen/tried or know the history on. However, I won't go about blasting anybody publicly or on social media. Just the other day a friend showed me a horse she was going to see. I knew he had soundness issues they were unable to resolve (first hand knowledge), so I told her not to waste her time. I've done the same thing if I know a rider really well and they discuss a certain horse to go try. I will caution them I don't think it would be a good match, but ultimately its up to them whether they want to go see the horse.

              In this case, I would just tell anybody who asks about him, or people you may know that post on the FB post asking to see him or for more information, etc. Discreetly, and privately, insert your experience (minus any emotion or blaming), and they can make their own decision. I only suggest this if you know the person personally. Otherwise, just pray that others spread the word as he launches another rider or two that comes to try him and pray no one gets hurt.

              Sellers like this make me so angry. Whenever I am selling a horse I give the good, the bad, and the ugly. I want a good fit for the horse, and trying to pass this horse off as a child or grandma safe horse helps no one, could get someone seriously injured (like you already have been!), or worse, killed. And the horse gets labelled as dangerous and ultimately pays for it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Let it go, I think. I tried a horse for my grand daughter (for her 10th birthday, I bought her a horse). I was really picky about what I wanted --but "child safe" was number one. I tried a horse that was fine in the arena, but when we hauled him to a local park and tried him with a group, he was so "animated" I got off and walked him back to the trailer --a first for me --but I wasn't going to get hurt on someone's horse! The horse later sold to a teenager who showed him low level h/j. In truth, he wasn't a "child's horse" but then children, like adults, have different abilities and expectations. I expected him to go pleasantly down a trail in a group --for me he would not. I also tried a "bomb proof" horse for myself "a mare that takes my 84 year old mother on trail rides." In this case, I tried it in the arena where it was alone with me and the seller --horse reared with me when I asked for a turn --I immediately got off. Seller got on --same thing ---seller said, "I don't know why she's doing that --my mom rides her just fine." I believe her --in a group, going where the other horses are going, all good. In a ring, solo, asked to perform --not happening. And the horse I did buy for me three years ago, is not child suitable --he doesn't buck, rear, or bolt --but put anyone on him that doesn't know how to ride well, and he will do exactly nothing --not move --just stand there. But I adore him and ride him first flight at the hunt club.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think I must be absolutely blessed that I have not come off a horse (yet), but then again I have not been riding my whole life (I only started at 40, 7 years ago). I cannot imagine how absolutely furious I would be if a horse dumped me like that, but like the others have said, it's the risk you take and sometimes it's better to stay out of it. Sadly this horse will get sold and probably get passed on over and over.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would stay out of it.

                    I'm aware of a situation like the one you describe, but from the other side. The horse I know was correctly, honestly, and fully represented. I wasn't there to see it happen, but a young rider came out to try him and left the property in an ambulance. I have no idea what on earth happened that day, but I know that the horse was advertised as being exactly what he is, and every other day in the 7 years I've known him I'd put a short stirrup kid on him and tell the kid to go out on a trail ride, see you in two hours.

                    I'm not saying that this happened in your case, but horses spook. Unless you have a relationship with someone who is looking at the horse, I don't see that any value can come of chasing this one down.

                    I will say that I did once say something when I had a personal relationship with the new owner. I had had the horse on trial. He was lovely until... and when he got to that "until" he would bolt through or over anything in his path. No self preservation. I thought I could get to the bottom of it but after he nearly took out my sister, her pony, two innocent bystanders, my trainer, and a fenceline in about 30 seconds, I sent him home. He ended up donated to a school program. I learned about this because I used to braid for them and when I came in one night to see him on my braiding list I thought "oh my goodness, some kid is going to die." I did tell the trainer my experience with the horse. She thanked me and said he'd been donated with full disclosure and they'd figured out how to manage it. I later met the horse's previous owner of record at a horse show by happenstance and she was horrified that he'd been represented the way he had been because her opinion was that he had a screw loose. But that's another story.
                    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I fully realize that a lot of falls are rider error, and I admittedly had been out of fighting shape for a few months. But I wasn't asking for a lead change, or even trotting over a pole, I was simply asking for a canter in a corner. My thoughts are that he's got ulcers or it was some other pain response, which makes me even sadder for the situation.

                      Someone found me on Facebook (I'm friends with the seller, not sure how they connected me to her but it didn't involve this thread) to tell me about a ghastly story involving stolen money, switched horses... the stuff out of crappy mystery novels. I doubt that overselling a horse's abilities is the biggest issue at hand.

                      I literally broke my face, but I think I got out pretty easy, considering I probably would have bought the thing if it didn't send me packing!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post
                        I would stay out of it.

                        I'm aware of a situation like the one you describe, but from the other side. The horse I know was correctly, honestly, and fully represented. I wasn't there to see it happen, but a young rider came out to try him and left the property in an ambulance. I have no idea what on earth happened that day, but I know that the horse was advertised as being exactly what he is, and every other day in the 7 years I've known him I'd put a short stirrup kid on him and tell the kid to go out on a trail ride, see you in two hours.

                        I'm not saying that this happened in your case, but horses spook. Unless you have a relationship with someone who is looking at the horse, I don't see that any value can come of chasing this one down.

                        I will say that I did once say something when I had a personal relationship with the new owner. I had had the horse on trial. He was lovely until... and when he got to that "until" he would bolt through or over anything in his path. No self preservation. I thought I could get to the bottom of it but after he nearly took out my sister, her pony, two innocent bystanders, my trainer, and a fenceline in about 30 seconds, I sent him home. He ended up donated to a school program. I learned about this because I used to braid for them and when I came in one night to see him on my braiding list I thought "oh my goodness, some kid is going to die." I did tell the trainer my experience with the horse. She thanked me and said he'd been donated with full disclosure and they'd figured out how to manage it. I later met the horse's previous owner of record at a horse show by happenstance and she was horrified that he'd been represented the way he had been because her opinion was that he had a screw loose. But that's another story.
                        I've been on this side, too. I was offering a free lease on my semi-retired, nationally decorated western horse (only going with people I know, taking precautions, that kind of thing). I was absolutely honest about the fact that he does spook over loud noises, and that it's a scoot forward that shouldn't be hard for anyone but a beginner to ride. For a beginner, earplugs usually resolve that issue nicely. A local trainer messaged me, I advised her of the spook as well as x-rays of his feet, offered copies of vet records, etc... Also referred her to two local trainers who had worked with this horse previously when he was in their show string and knew him really well. She advised that she was looking for a total beginner horse and that one of her students was rebuilding confidence after a really bad wreck off another horse. I told her up front I thought he might not be a good fit for what she needed. She wanted to try him anyway. Came out, complained over the fact I wasn't willing to sell, only to lease... I rode him first, had someone make a loud noise so she could SEE the spook... She still wanted to try him. Gets on, spends the entire time complaining about how he's trained and how tricky he is to ride, horses are so much better in her native country... He spooked at a helicopter, same scoot forward three strides, stop, dragon snort he always does... She nearly ate dirt. She gets off complaining about how naughty he is and she can't believe I'd offer him as a lesson horse.

                        Lesson learned, no matter HOW honest you are, someone isn't going to believe you. Even the BEST horses are still horses and stuff happens. Or someone seriously doesn't understand their own limitations.
                        Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lol hard to say because I don’t know the whole story but I’d let it go. While I think there are certainly no shortage of shady people out there trying to unload difficult horses on people, in my experience I’ve encountered a lot more people who really just don’t realize that just because the horse is nice for them doesn’t mean it’s nice for everyone, especially if you’re buying from someone who’s not an established trainer. I have unfortunately learned this lesson the hard way too lol. All of my lesson horses are very safe and saintly but will dump someone under just the right circumstances lol. Sometimes even people who are pretty good riders in general don’t mesh with certain horses.

                          The most dangerous OTTB I ever had I got from someone I had a really good relationship with and had always been very accurate and honest about her horses personalities, quirks, and potential soundness problems. If they’re retiring from racing because of an injury she even rehabs them for you first and sends them over cute and chunky. According to her the horse was always a little sassy but very manageable. But he was 9 year old track veteran and she thought he should move on to another career. Great! The older sound track veterans are usually the easiest and most fun in my experience. We tried 4 times to ride him with and without lunging and every time he would try to flip himself over (things like this are why I never get on an ottb I don’t know without someone holding it so luckily I was safe).
                          I was like wtf you said this guy was nice are you trying to kill me? Idk what was wrong with him but I didn’t have the time or budget to deal with him so I sent him back to her and she really could not believe me that he was so awful because he was so nice at the track always. She thought I was just being a wuss so she sent him to another h/j trainer where he did flip over on someone. I don’t know the whole story but I know he went back to racing after that and was successful and fine so whatever. He’s just retired in a field now. I’ve gotten horses from her since then and they’ve all been nice, so just a weird situation. I’m sure that horse had something physically wrong with him but he was okay at that track after that and now he’s just chilling in her backyard and she did not attempt to sell him again after someone else had the same experience as me. I believe her that she really didn’t think the horse would be like that. I don’t know what she told the 2nd trainer she sent the horse to but I can kind of understand why if you’ve had a horse that you see every day for years behaving one way you’d doubt what someone else said about it.
                          Conversely, one of the best horses I got from her was apparently a nightmare at the track. Difficult in the mornings but won 4 races then in the 5th spooked and jumped and flipped over the inside rail and she wanted nothing to do with him after that. Idk what his issue was but he was always great for my students and I lol. Sold him for a good price because he was big and pretty and athletic, think he’s still jumping around.

                          Anyway bigger point is that horses and the horse business are weird and it’s not worth potentially getting into drama with people who may be shady but also maybe just have a different experience than you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In my world there are people who are real friends and would trust me to tell them if I knew anything wrong about a horse, and I would tell them. Then there are acquaintances that don't trust my advice more than, say, their coach or else figure they know more than me, and I don't bother trying to give such people advice. And then there is the vast majority of people that are total strangers and it would just be very very wierd if I messaged them slamming some random horse.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Having been there, done that, and gotten the t-shirt, I’d do nothing. And when it happened to me I did nothing. Except ice my kidneys and rant to my spouse about how much of a hot mess everything about that situation was.

                              Things ended up catching up with the owner down the line, when someone finally had irrefutable proof of the owner doing some particularly unfavorable things. That got splashed all over the internet, and it turned out that there were a lot of other people in the area who had been screwed over by her.

                              Internet gossip tends to go badly unless you’re dang sure that what you have is solid enough or emotionally wrenching enough to bring people over to your side. So yeah, if it happened to me again I’d probably still do nothing, except maybe, maybe quietly get in touch with people interested in doing business with that person. Maybe. For instance if children were involved, or something similar.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I tried a horse that I had seen go, he reared and bucked and I came off him like a weeble. I kept out of it when I saw his sale ad. I think they were representing him fairly and for a fair price- it was more of a "come and try him he can be tricky".

                                Now- just 2 weeks we reached out to an acquaintance who had a horse for sale for my daughter. Someone at the barn private messaged me on FB and asked me to call her. She would not give specifics but said she would not want her daughter on the horse and to watch him very closely. She was concerned about blow back if she got too in to it with me.

                                Fast forward to last weekend, the trainer brought the horse to a clinic. After the horse crashed through some jumps and some other issues, the clinician said the horse could not be ridden and should be assessed by a vet.

                                Unless it was a dear friend or close acquaintance- I would not say anything.
                                Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I would probably just let it go, unless you know someone personally considering him, then I would be honest about my experience (and fall/injuries occurred on him). Otherwise, buyer beware. It's just not worth starting any drama over.

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