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Safesport - Aiding and Abetting

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    Originally posted by Midge View Post

    And yet the same people complaining about the 'timely manner' are complaining about SafeSport getting more money. Safe Sport did grossly underestimate the number of cases they expected to be filed. Why should Dads and Moms be careful of giving rides to their kid's friends? Please be specific.
    Really? Let’s go back to the beginning,remembering the original intent of SS — keeping children safe. So sally doesn’t like Susie and says her Dad touched her or hugged her! Dad is in a heap of trouble and Sally got Susie off the team!

    There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?

    Comment


      Originally posted by Alterforme View Post
      This might be a silly analogy, but, the horse world is small... so, I compare it to the social hierarchy of a high school .
      The upper level & upper rich( George Morris level) are the popular kids. ( they think they can do what they want, that rules don’t apply) they will win at all costs. They have huge egos. Drugging horses, taking advantage of children, bad horse sales, etc, etc. the upper level folk think they are the cool kids. They think they can do what they want & no one can touch them. People look up to them & they feel superior.
      Now, SS has come along... like a new principal in a school that doesn’t give out free passes. Their time is up & they are fighting against it, with the safe sport reform & iswg.
      *not all are bad, but I’m just making a simplified analogy.


      Hmmm, it is more like a cult. In a cult there is a hierarchy. People on the bottom suffer humiliation and degradation and those higher up do not. So everyone wants to be higher up. The only way to get higher up is at the say-so of the leader or their assistants so you must kiss people up to get higher in the system. Then you are no longer abused BUT you must go along to abuse those below you when the groups says-so. Maybe you have to stay quiet about a crime or commit one or bring money to the group or whatever.

      If the leader picks favourites they get special treatment and are exempted from the hierarchy. When the favourites fall from favor- they fall to the bottom and people get their revenge on them. I think we see that in the women who complain that teenagers "threw themselves" at Jimmy Williams. They were not the favourites and in their child piece of their brains they are still resentful because they perceive the treatment they had as unfair. They also "dehumanize" people they perceive as lower than them because that is how the leader teaches. If you never grow up and leave that small world you stay in those patterns. Most organisations have many rules and procedures to stop this developing like the army and corporations because it always leads to crime and abuse. Always. This is well studied.

      It is important to remember in this kind of power structure anyone high in the hierarchy for a long time must have deficits in their character. There are going to be no good actors there. Perhaps someone would never have sex with a student or kill a horse personally but they have been able to justify others doing so and have learned well to act without empathy when it comes to the interests of the group and the leaders. I would not trust them to act well with power because of how they have learned and how they perceive power allowing people to act towards others. They will always have problems with family and business and keeping order in their lives, although it might not be visible to outsiders, it is there.

      Comment


        Originally posted by oreo mom View Post

        Really? Let’s go back to the beginning,remembering the original intent of SS — keeping children safe. So sally doesn’t like Susie and says her Dad touched her or hugged her! Dad is in a heap of trouble and Sally got Susie off the team!

        There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?
        Susie's Dad has no position of power over Sally. Safe Sport would have nothing to say about it. I talked to middle aged adult customer of a middle aged adult trainer who seemed to think she could not have dinner one on one with her trainer because of safe sport. Honestly, the ignorance is amazing.
        *****
        You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Midge View Post

          Nor was he, BITD.
          Interestingly, this article discusses Armand Leone's time training and travelling with George as a 17 year old boy...

          https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/20...from-the-past/

          Comment


            Originally posted by oreo mom View Post

            There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?
            The ones who have been misbehaving with junior students.
            *****
            You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

            Comment


              Originally posted by oreo mom View Post

              Really? Let’s go back to the beginning,remembering the original intent of SS — keeping children safe. So sally doesn’t like Susie and says her Dad touched her or hugged her! Dad is in a heap of trouble and Sally got Susie off the team!

              There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?
              Not at all how Safesport works. But, yeah, go ahead, keep regurgitating the same line as all the others who know nothing about how the process actually works. Your ignorance is showing.

              Comment


                Originally posted by EADoug View Post

                Interestingly, this article discusses Armand Leone's time training and travelling with George as a 17 year old boy...

                https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/20...from-the-past/
                All of the Leone brothers rode there for some years and have said good things about the effect on their careers and the coaching. And still he is able to say with a clear voice what is right and what is wrong and draw a line. Proof it can be done. This is the response every prominent rider should have instead of flocking together like sheep.

                Comment


                  Oreo's mom, I'm sure there is an audience for your concerns about all the poor people losing their livelihood because of these rampant and unchecked false allegations...but this probably isn't the audience. Just go donate to the antis fund.

                  Collectively, I would say many of us understand what you're peddling, we just aren't buying it.
                  Let me apologize in advance.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by oreo mom View Post

                    Really? Let’s go back to the beginning,remembering the original intent of SS — keeping children safe. So sally doesn’t like Susie and says her Dad touched her or hugged her! Dad is in a heap of trouble and Sally got Susie off the team!

                    There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?
                    “Witch hunts?” Really? You’re going to have to explain that one. Is there a long list of trainers out there who have been the victims of false accusations? In only case I have heard of the person was cleared and reinstated, which seems to confirm the system works.

                    Comment


                      & the trainer who was listed, cleared & reinstated, seems to have suffered NO ill effects in his business, or reputation.

                      Which is what I hear the SS reform group shouting about... the loss of business & reputation.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by oreo mom View Post



                        Dads out there— be careful of giving rides to your daughters friends!

                        Moms — be careful of giving rides to your son’s friends.

                        Stop repeating yourselves and wake up!
                        Disclaimer- I don't have children.

                        About 10 years ago I was boarding my horse with a woman that had a daughter who was around 14 years old at the time. We would trail ride together, foxhunt together. Sometimes she would come to my house and hang out. I made darn sure that my husband never drover her somewhere by himself and he was never by himself with her in the house. It wasn't that I didn't trust him. I just never wanted anyone else to question the situation. I never wanted there to be an opportunity for a false accusation. This was well prior to Safe Sport. I was not in a position of authority over her.

                        So my suggestion for Dad and Mom go ahead and give that ride to your child's friend but bring your child with you. This has nothing to do with Safe Sport. It has everything to do with being smart and aware of perception. It protects both the child and the adult.

                        To me most of the Safe Sport guidelines are just common sense. I am just a boarder at a barn not a trainer. I see no issue with being at the barn alone with a junior. I don't even see a problem with a trainer being at the barn alone with a junior. Don't go upstairs to the trainer's apartment with the junior. At the barn there is always the opportunity for another student, a parent or boarder to show up. At the private residence not so much.

                        I think it is always a good practice to be mindful of how we interact with minors that are not our own children. It is just a good practice regardless of Safe Sport.

                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by oreo mom View Post
                          .............
                          Dads out there— be careful of giving rides to your daughters friends!

                          Moms — be careful of giving rides to your son’s friends.

                          Stop repeating yourselves and wake up!
                          Wake up to what? The world as it is today? Definitely!

                          I am not sure of the intent of the quoted remarks --- but nothing to do with riding, heck yeah every parent needs to have their own personal policies of how they interact with their children's friends. Friends of any gender.

                          Every parent I know absolutely has such guidelines, and they often work with other parents or their spouse to make sure they aren't alone with other people's children at any time. Car, house, school activity, whatever.

                          It's called "common sense". What's so radical about that? There has been a need for these precautions for *decades*. This is *not* new in any way.


                          Originally posted by oreo mom View Post

                          Really? Let’s go back to the beginning,remembering the original intent of SS — keeping children safe. So sally doesn’t like Susie and says her Dad touched her or hugged her! Dad is in a heap of trouble and Sally got Susie off the team!

                          There are many sides to this issue and the witch hunts are only beginning. I wonder when the hunter trainers will fall like dominoes?
                          So what if silly Sally claims Susie's dad hugged her? Since Susie's dad sensibly was not alone with Sally at any time, that accusation falls flat in a hurry.

                          Sally is the one who will be having a serious talk with a mentor to help her grow up a bit and understand that some stories she may have heard were not exactly the way things work. Susie's dad will be getting an embarrassed apology from someone, if not from Sally, then from some adult who is helping to guide Sally through life.

                          Again - common sense is not hard to practice. Just do it, and stop worrying about false accusations that will have no traction.
                          Last edited by OverandOnward; Dec. 6, 2019, 12:28 PM.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by charlieTBD View Post

                            All of the Leone brothers rode there for some years and have said good things about the effect on their careers and the coaching. And still he is able to say with a clear voice what is right and what is wrong and draw a line. Proof it can be done. This is the response every prominent rider should have instead of flocking together like sheep.
                            Exactly. It boggles me that this wasn't the sort of response we got. Instead, I'm just constantly being disappointed by my childhood idols. Even the ones who haven't said anything - they have chosen to be silent when strong voices are needed.

                            Comment


                              not

                              Comment


                                https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ed/2629777001/

                                Comment


                                  Zimmerman has a newborn baby girl. Hope nobody sends her pics of their junk in 13 years.

                                  Comment


                                    Livestream available for tonight’s USHJA Safesport Q & A at 6:10pm Eastern
                                    https://cdn.digitalservices.online/USHJA-2019/

                                    Comment

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