Sport Horse Spotlight

Vitalis_img_4461skawx LL_Fotos

Real Estate Spotlight

Driveway

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Trainer drugged my horse... WWYD? Updated

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Trainer drugged my horse... WWYD? Updated

    I attended a an unrated schooling show last weekend with a barn that I recently moved to. The day before we were going to leave, trainer asked if I thought they should give my horse some Ace before they put him on the trailer because he is typically a worrier and had not been anywhere in a while. I replied that he shipped quite a long way to get here and had trailered very well, so I wasn’t worried and didn’t think it would be necessary. I had something going on so I was unable to be at the barn when they were loading the horses. I met them at the show and soon found out in passing from another client that had been present at the barn while they were loading the horses that they gave him Ace. Am I wrong or overreacting to be upset about this? It really rubbed me the wrong way that they would drug my horse without my consent.
    Last edited by masiek; Nov. 1, 2019, 07:06 PM.

  • #2
    First do you 100% know that this report is true? Or is the other client mistaken?

    Second how did horse appear when you arrived at the show?

    Third, is it possible the horse gave the trainers grief and they resorted to drugs?

    For myself I don't travel in circles where horses are regularly sedated other than for vet work. Indeed our vet will hand rasp my mares teeth if she doesn't need much work without sedating her. No one in my world sedates for trailering or showing.

    But I realize many trainers are quicker to sedate and that doping for competition is a thing.

    Anyhow in this as in all things, you need to use your words. That means you go to the trainer in a spirit of enquiry. You say Susy Client mentioned you did end up giving Fluffy a bit of Ace to load him in the trailer. Was he giving you trouble loading?

    Trainer will likely tell you the truth if you don't sound furious.

    From their reply you can move onto a more general discussion where you explore politely the trainers attitude towards sedatives, trailering, etc. Too bad you didn't have this conversation before you moved in but better late than never.

    Go away and mull over their response.

    If there is too big a gap between their ideas of using drugs and your own then you need to move barns.

    It's also possible that your horse is not as easy to load as you believe. How much have you yourself loaded and shipped him or is it always trainer doing this?

    I personally would never sedate a horse to trailer them unless it was an emergency situation with a rank or extremely trailer sour horse. I think they need their balance and wits to travel well.

    So I would not want my horse under this trainer.

    But "getting upset" never helped anything. Figure out what kind of trainer you are dealing with and act don't stew.




    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the hunter world.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
        First do you 100% know that this report is true? Or is the other client mistaken?

        Second how did horse appear when you arrived at the show?

        Third, is it possible the horse gave the trainers grief and they resorted to drugs?

        For myself I don't travel in circles where horses are regularly sedated other than for vet work. Indeed our vet will hand rasp my mares teeth if she doesn't need much work without sedating her. No one in my world sedates for trailering or showing.

        But I realize many trainers are quicker to sedate and that doping for competition is a thing.

        Anyhow in this as in all things, you need to use your words. That means you go to the trainer in a spirit of enquiry. You say Susy Client mentioned you did end up giving Fluffy a bit of Ace to load him in the trailer. Was he giving you trouble loading?

        Trainer will likely tell you the truth if you don't sound furious.

        From their reply you can move onto a more general discussion where you explore politely the trainers attitude towards sedatives, trailering, etc. Too bad you didn't have this conversation before you moved in but better late than never.

        Go away and mull over their response.

        If there is too big a gap between their ideas of using drugs and your own then you need to move barns.

        It's also possible that your horse is not as easy to load as you believe. How much have you yourself loaded and shipped him or is it always trainer doing this?

        I personally would never sedate a horse to trailer them unless it was an emergency situation with a rank or extremely trailer sour horse. I think they need their balance and wits to travel well.

        So I would not want my horse under this trainer.

        But "getting upset" never helped anything. Figure out what kind of trainer you are dealing with and act don't stew.​
        Great response. Do get the full story before you say anything to the trainer. There are far too many things that could be misconstrued about an event that you didn't witness first hand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, I mean, the trainer did ask you if you thought your horse should have ace and you didn't say no - just that you thought it wouldn't be necessary. She evidently disagreed. If you had said 'do not give my horse Ace' and she did without asking/telling you, then that would be something. But that's not what happened. So figure out what your sedation policy is, tell your trainer plainly and unequivocally, and go from there.

          Comment


          • #6
            IMHO,the default setting should not be that it's ok for the trainer to drug your horse unless told explicitly *not* to.
            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
              IMHO,the default setting should not be that it's ok for the trainer to drug your horse unless told explicitly *not* to.
              Yup.

              OP, is your horse a bad loader or did the pro think he'd kick or paw in the trailer such that he upset the other horses?

              If someone drugged my horse after I explicitly told them not to, I'd have a conversation with them about it. They'd need to know that I knew that they went against my instructions, but I'd also ask them for context. If there was not a good reason do to it, that pro would know they would lose me as a client the next time anything like this happened.

              I moved my horse to a hunter barn that might like to belly up to the line of legal drugging. The pro and I had a conversation about that. We agreed that no one, not me nor her nor the staff would give my horse so much as a gram of bute without all others on the team knowing about it. I told here I'd care for my own horse at shows and sign on the "Trainer" line on entry forms. She was cool with it.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • #8
                Ghazzu is right on. If this is true, and the barn didn't tell you about it immediately, I'd be out.

                I don't even care if the horse was rank about getting on the trailer and presented a safety issue- if that's the case, I can see medicating him to get him on, but only after calling you. You should have heard about it from them.

                But do verify first that this is accurate.
                "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
                  IMHO,the default setting should not be that it's ok for the trainer to drug your horse unless told explicitly *not* to.
                  Best answer ever!!
                  Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post
                    Ghazzu is right on. If this is true, and the barn didn't tell you about it immediately, I'd be out.

                    I don't even care if the horse was rank about getting on the trailer and presented a safety issue- if that's the case, I can see medicating him to get him on, but only after calling you. You should have heard about it from them.

                    But do verify first that this is accurate.
                    I understand the safety aspect of trying tog et a scared horse on a trailer. However, this means that the horse arrived at the show and likely showed under the influence of ACE. Not only is this against the spirit of competition but it is also unsafe for you as the rider. If the horse cant be loaded safely without drugs, it needs to be worked with prior to trying to show. I am not against the use of certain drugs as a training tool for things like clipping and loading (or vet procedures)
                    Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would think of it in the context of a teacher giving my child a prescription medication without my knowledge or consent. What would you do in that situation?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think Scribbler's answer says it all very well. Worth emphasizing is that there are barns with different tolerance levels for this sort of thing; and you'll be happiest at one whose philosophy is closest to your own.

                        I once had another trainer, not mine (!) with whom we had hitched a ride to the show, give my horse Ace because there had been scrambling and banging in the van and she aced all the likely culprits.

                        I had to scratch my morning classes because the horse was too sedated to ride safely.

                        The barn I was riding with didn't even have Ace on hand at the barn. Needless to say, we never hauled with her again.
                        The plural of anecdote is not data.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Everything Scribbler said. 👍

                          I used to have a similar issue "back in the day" when I showed Hunters & Trainer was an advocate of using bute if show ran over 2 days or ground was hard or <insert excuse>
                          I countered by saying if my horse was sore I wanted to know & would rather scratch than have him play through the pain.

                          Make certain you have the facts, not hearsay secondhand info.
                          Advise trainer of your views on sedation, and be prepared to discuss options.
                          *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                          Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                          Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                          Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I guess I was spoiled with my last barn and trainer. NOTHING ever happens before or after the fact that she did not inform me about.

                            Horse lived out 24/7. During high winds or extra severe weather she would bring him in. I always got a text. Something in the routine changed, I heard, Noticed an odd moment, step, equipment issue, I heard. She respected me as a horse person and a horse owner.

                            That this trainer, if she did indeed Ace the horse, NEVER TOLD YOU, I feel is a bad sign

                            get the facts and come to an understanding
                            _\\]
                            -- * > hoopoe
                            Procrastinate NOW
                            Introverted Since 1957

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Silk View Post

                              I understand the safety aspect of trying tog et a scared horse on a trailer. However, this means that the horse arrived at the show and likely showed under the influence of ACE. Not only is this against the spirit of competition but it is also unsafe for you as the rider. If the horse cant be loaded safely without drugs, it needs to be worked with prior to trying to show. I am not against the use of certain drugs as a training tool for things like clipping and loading (or vet procedures)
                              I agree. That’s why there needs to have been a phone call- to discuss the use of ace and that the options were ace the horse to get it on the trailer and the horse show becomes an outing to get off the farm with no classes involved and the mission only to give the horse a good experience, or to leave it home. Either way the owner should have participated in the decision.
                              "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by punchy View Post
                                Well, I mean, the trainer did ask you if you thought your horse should have ace and you didn't say no - just that you thought it wouldn't be necessary. She evidently disagreed. If you had said 'do not give my horse Ace' and she did without asking/telling you, then that would be something. But that's not what happened. So figure out what your sedation policy is, tell your trainer plainly and unequivocally, and go from there.
                                Hum... No.

                                Not the trainer’s horse, not the trainer’s decision.

                                Especially without mentioning it to the owner.

                                The OP said it would not be necessary, therefore no ACE should have been given without asking again.

                                I get it could have been a last minute decision for a complicated situation, horse being startle and getting dangerous to load, but yet, the owner should have been informed, asked and should have been allowed to give permission.

                                If the horse was so difficult/dangerous, the trainer should have called the OP.
                                If the OP couldn’t be reached, the horse should have been put back into its stall and left behind.

                                A thorough discussion about what is acceptable or not in term of drug use should have then be done.

                                If the OP’s trainer would have been honest, s/he would have told the OP right away that her horse had been drugged for the trailer trip.

                                The OP needs to have a discussion with the trainer and learn what happen for real.
                                ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                Originally posted by LauraKY
                                I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                HORSING mobile training app

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for the input everyone. I’ll try my best to answer some of the questions a few of you had.

                                  The client that mentioned the Ace to me has ridden with them forever and has the resume to understand what she saw. She wouldn’t mistake it for something else. I know this did happen.

                                  This was an unrated show so they didn’t need to worry about drug testing which is, I assume, why they were so quick to jump to the Ace.

                                  The show was 2 hours away and I arrived several hours after they did so the drugs had plenty of time to wear off. He appeared normal, not sedated in any way when I got there.

                                  When I got to the show trainer informed me that the horse was hesitant to get on the trailer and stood at the bottom of the ramp for a few minutes. She said they used a broom and then he walked right on.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by masiek View Post
                                    Thanks for the input everyone. I’ll try my best to answer some of the questions a few of you had.

                                    The client that mentioned the Ace to me has ridden with them forever and has the resume to understand what she saw. She wouldn’t mistake it for something else. I know this did happen.

                                    This was an unrated show so they didn’t need to worry about drug testing which is, I assume, why they were so quick to jump to the Ace.

                                    The show was 2 hours away and I arrived several hours after they did so the drugs had plenty of time to wear off. He appeared normal, not sedated in any way when I got there.

                                    When I got to the show trainer informed me that the horse was hesitant to get on the trailer and stood at the bottom of the ramp for a few minutes. She said they used a broom and then he walked right on.
                                    Are you saying the trainer effectively lied to you, claiming he got on with a broom and not mentioning that he was given Ace?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      She said they used a broom and then he walked right on.
                                      A broom is not a good training tool for trailering issues, (nor for anything else as a general rule.)

                                      I wouldn’t be happy knowing the trainer lied about the drug and used a broom to get my horse on a trailer.
                                      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                      Originally posted by LauraKY
                                      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                      HORSING mobile training app

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Horsegirl's Mom View Post

                                        Are you saying the trainer effectively lied to you, claiming he got on with a broom and not mentioning that he was given Ace?
                                        I don’t think the part about the broom was a lie. How I believe it went down was, they gave him the Ace before they even tried to load them. Then when they did go to load him, he was hesitant so they used the broom.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X