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Live Feed of USEF Medal Final at Harrisburg 2019

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  • Originally posted by talltails View Post
    For example, many years ago she once tested a medal class by asking riders to leave the line, execute a figure eight at the canter before jumping one jump and returning to line. The whole point was to see if the riders understood the definition of a figure eight (should require only one change of lead). None of them did and she gave them all a lecture afterwards.
    I know this is off-topic, but would you explain this further? I'm curious now, I definitely would have done this wrong!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by talltails View Post
      From a USDF educational flyer "It is very important that the walk rhythm is maintained, so sticking with a hind leg is a serious fault, as is stepping backwards. Other common faults include performing a small half circle, the horse throwing itself around the turn, losing activity of the walk, and a lack of obedience to the aids."

      Basically the faults in a turn on the haunches in order of severity are:
      1) Front legs failing to move around hind legs (i.e. performing a circle)
      2) Stepping backwards and/or pivoting around the hind legs without continuing a four beat walk
      3) Incorrect bend (horse should be bent into the direction of movement - a temporary loss of bend is more minor)
      4) Too large (the hind legs may describe a circle of up to one meter)

      None of the riders executed a truly correct turn on the haunches (Erin Floyd probably had the best one but partially completed outside the box).

      That said, I thought both of Emma's walk transitions in the line were less than ideal so it could have gone either way. However, I have known Kip as a judge for many, many years and I know she is a stickler for riders truly understanding the definitions of the tests and exercises. For example, many years ago she once tested a medal class by asking riders to leave the line, execute a figure eight at the canter before jumping one jump and returning to line. The whole point was to see if the riders understood the definition of a figure eight (should require only one change of lead). None of them did and she gave them all a lecture afterwards. With that in mind, I'm betting that, at least for her, Jordan's "stuck" turn on the haunches meant she didn't understand that test and therefore was penalized fairly heavily.
      So interesting - so, technically, does that make Jordan’s test fall in #2 where just planting the hind Legs and not keeping the movement of the turn is an incorrect turn?

      I rewatched this morning as well and think Emma’s second round was the best of any of them, and turn on the haunches out, liked Emma’s test better as well.

      Comment


      • can we all stop being armchair medal finals riders and congratulate Emma on a job well done and a terrific win. Both riders did great. Youre at Medal Finals. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the risk takers who gamble and gamble well and execute flawlessly are going to be rewarded. Everyone at Medal Finals wants to see flawless rounds. But it isn't about strictly flawless rounds and never has been. It's about riding aggressively and executing perfection while doing so. Emma did so and her confidence in executing said risks were well rewarded as they should've been. You don't turn up to test at Medal Finals with a plan to ride conservatively.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
          can we all stop being armchair medal finals riders and congratulate Emma on a job well done and a terrific win. Both riders did great. Youre at Medal Finals. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the risk takers who gamble and gamble well and execute flawlessly are going to be rewarded. Everyone at Medal Finals wants to see flawless rounds. But it isn't about strictly flawless rounds and never has been. It's about riding aggressively and executing perfection while doing so. Emma did so and her confidence in executing said risks were well rewarded as they should've been. You don't turn up to test at Medal Finals with a plan to ride conservatively.
          I agree with this 100%. Emma won the class with her bold hand gallop and the counter canter serpentine. That moved her to the front of the class and Jordan down to third. There was a lot of movement in the second round, Avery Glynn was as second and dropped to 9th?

          I think they were looking for more separation in the work off and the turn on the haunches was not the differentiator they had hoped for. But having ridden with one of the judges for a week in Wellington, I know she would heavily penalize a lack of forward in a turn on the haunches. I also think Emma had the horse properly bent in the direction of the turn, which is pretty important. I also would be surprised if she favored a lighter seat as well.

          I thought they both brought a lot of quality to their rounds. I myself would judge a controlled element like a turn on the haunches more severely than a horse landing a bit split after 3 grueling rounds of competition. From what I know of one of the judges and some of her beliefs, I feel pretty confident she would have loved to award the blue to an African American rider if she felt she was the best. I don’t think this was a case of racial bias. I think they felt Jordan came up short and offered her the best horse as consolation prize.

          still I thought there was some very impressive riding out there. And I applaud the judges for making waking on a loose rein and patting your horse a part of the test. It is nice to have these soldiers acknowledged.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by greysfordays View Post

            I agree with this 100%. Emma won the class with her bold hand gallop and the counter canter serpentine. That moved her to the front of the class and Jordan down to third. There was a lot of movement in the second round, Avery Glynn was as second and dropped to 9th?

            I think they were looking for more separation in the work off and the turn on the haunches was not the differentiator they had hoped for. But having ridden with one of the judges for a week in Wellington, I know she would heavily penalize a lack of forward in a turn on the haunches. I also think Emma had the horse properly bent in the direction of the turn, which is pretty important. I also would be surprised if she favored a lighter seat as well.

            I thought they both brought a lot of quality to their rounds. I myself would judge a controlled element like a turn on the haunches more severely than a horse landing a bit split after 3 grueling rounds of competition. From what I know of one of the judges and some of her beliefs, I feel pretty confident she would have loved to award the blue to an African American rider if she felt she was the best. I don’t think this was a case of racial bias. I think they felt Jordan came up short and offered her the best horse as consolation prize.

            still I thought there was some very impressive riding out there. And I applaud the judges for making waking on a loose rein and patting your horse a part of the test. It is nice to have these soldiers acknowledged.
            I mostly agree BUT her horse was the clear winner. Definitely not a consolation prize. I always feel bad for second place when their horse wins... it feels kind of cruel to me lol

            Comment


            • Originally posted by harrisburgrules View Post

              I mostly agree BUT her horse was the clear winner. Definitely not a consolation prize. I always feel bad for second place when their horse wins... it feels kind of cruel to me lol
              Agreed, it's almost like the message to the rider is "well, you didn't win, but you had the best horse, just think how far down you might have been if you didn't have that advantage".

              I definitely understand that the definition of a correct turn on the haunches is different for dressage vs what would be expected in AQHA and similar where sticking the pivot foot but maintaining forward motion is required. I am assuming that there is a reference somewhere in the rules that govern equitation classes that repeats or refers to the USDF definition?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by greysfordays
                I think they felt Jordan came up short and offered her the best horse as consolation prize.
                I don't- that horse is an outrageously fabulous animal. He can come home with me any day of the week.

                I understand why the judges pinned the turn on the haunches the way they did, I will assume they didn't see the split lead, and I had Emma as my winner after the second round and didn't see the need for further testing so I can envision that they also had her far enough ahead that there was margin for error. I do think that Jordan had the stronger test.
                "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post

                  I don't- that horse is an outrageously fabulous animal. He can come home with me any day of the week.

                  I understand why the judges pinned the turn on the haunches the way they did, I will assume they didn't see the split lead, and I had Emma as my winner after the second round and didn't see the need for further testing so I can envision that they also had her far enough ahead that there was margin for error. I do think that Jordan had the stronger test.
                  he is a well know Eq mount. Of course he's a fabulous horse. He is definitely not new to this caliber of competition,

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                    he is a well know Eq mount. Of course he's a fabulous horse. He is definitely not new to this caliber of competition,
                    My point was that his recognition as best equitation horse was a well-deserved award, independent of the way he was ridden on the day.
                    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post

                      My point was that his recognition as best equitation horse was a well-deserved award, independent of the way he was ridden on the day.
                      Exactly!! He’s a well known eq mount because he’s amazing. Well deserved

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post

                        Agreed, it's almost like the message to the rider is "well, you didn't win, but you had the best horse, just think how far down you might have been if you didn't have that advantage".

                        I definitely understand that the definition of a correct turn on the haunches is different for dressage vs what would be expected in AQHA and similar where sticking the pivot foot but maintaining forward motion is required. I am assuming that there is a reference somewhere in the rules that govern equitation classes that repeats or refers to the USDF definition?
                        Oh I always think it seems like “you had the best horse and that other person STILL beat you” haha

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post
                          Emily Perkins quite good, tactful through a little spook to 2, though beatable in the second counter canter by someone who takes the shorter track and keeps a more consistent pace through.
                          I wondered why she didn't move up into the top 12. Rookie question: but does it not count higher if you land the counter canter and hold it than having to go down to a walk to pick it up? Maybe not since the judges said you can get the counter canter no matter how you want??

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BITSA View Post

                            I wondered why she didn't move up into the top 12. Rookie question: but does it not count higher if you land the counter canter and hold it than having to go down to a walk to pick it up? Maybe not since the judges said you can get the counter canter no matter how you want??
                            I think she was just too far down in the order to make it 15 places up with a spook. I imagine they held that against her. I was surprised Zayna moved up as far as she did- it's quite a jump up the leaderboard.
                            "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Renn/aissance View Post

                              I think she was just too far down in the order to make it 15 places up with a spook. I imagine they held that against her. I was surprised Zayna moved up as far as she did- it's quite a jump up the leaderboard.
                              Thats what surprised me, was Zayna's move huge up... and I was so impressed by the land and hold counter canter!

                              Comment


                              • Jordan’s horse is listed as Quite Cassini and USEF has this listed as its first year doing the equitation. Am I missing something or did it show under a different name? I’ve never heard of it before.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by blondewithchrome View Post

                                  I agree that those who can ride handiness will be rewarded. This is a long trip, but I really like the tests. The bending S Line demands accuracy to get a good distance, then the landing off the third element could get you into trouble if you aren’t prepared and able to really ask for a nice tight turn. I have seen a few riders come in and ride the course but they just look loose and a bit sloppy trying to “get it done.”
                                  The judges usually design the course.
                                  "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post

                                    The judges usually design the course.
                                    No. It was Alan Lohman.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by sassy View Post
                                      Jordan’s horse is listed as Quite Cassini and USEF has this listed as its first year doing the equitation. Am I missing something or did it show under a different name? I’ve never heard of it before.
                                      Looks like Quite Cassini is a 14 year old Holsteiner stallion that was competing at the top Grand Prix in Europe until recently. Nice horse, and obviously very well schooled. You Tube has several videos of him competing in Europe. Markings look the same.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post

                                        The judges usually design the course.
                                        perhaps for the final test, but this year it was done by Alan Lohman. I think he gave the riders a good number of questions in both round 1 and 2 and let the judges pick what they wanted to reward. Lots of sleepers to fence 1 and lots of lackluster hand gallops in round 2. I loved round 2 course.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by blondewithchrome View Post

                                          perhaps for the final test, but this year it was done by Alan Lohman. I think he gave the riders a good number of questions in both round 1 and 2 and let the judges pick what they wanted to reward. Lots of sleepers to fence 1 and lots of lackluster hand gallops in round 2. I loved round 2 course.
                                          Alan is the course designer, but he has alway said for Medal finals that he judges tell him what they want, and he is the one out there executing it. I assume that it was the same this year.

                                          Comment

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