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Maclay Regionals - Region 8 (CA, HI, NV) - Interesting Night, and Do-Overs

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  • MHM
    replied
    Originally posted by skydy View Post

    Oh my, back in the day! Before the advent of the now ubiquitous, enormous fake tail.
    Yes, lots of things look very different. The video definitely feels like a time capsule.

    Leave a comment:


  • skydy
    replied
    Originally posted by MHM View Post

    Yes, there was a two part feature in Practical Horseman about his win that I read many, many times.

    The preliminary round in New Jersey was held in an indoor ring, but I think everyone was very nervous under the circumstances.

    This video shows the setting for both rounds, and both of Peter’s trips, plus lots of fun background footage. It’s an entertaining look down memory lane.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvNxHMT5fI
    Oh my, back in the day! Before the advent of the now ubiquitous, enormous fake tail.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    Originally posted by Peggy View Post
    MHM I think I remember reading about that and how Peter was worried he would make it through as the conditions were bad (rain? mud?) and he had kind of a rough time as a result.
    Yes, there was a two part feature in Practical Horseman about his win that I read many, many times.

    The preliminary round in New Jersey was held in an indoor ring, but I think everyone was very nervous under the circumstances.

    This video shows the setting for both rounds, and both of Peter’s trips, plus lots of fun background footage. It’s an entertaining look down memory lane.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvNxHMT5fI

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    MHM I think I remember reading about that and how Peter was worried he would make it through as the conditions were bad (rain? mud?) and he had kind of a rough time as a result.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    Originally posted by staceymc View Post
    When the National moved out of The Garden, I think they briefly made regionals "optional", where even if you weren't a top finisher you could still go to finals. But I may be mis-remembering that.
    If that happened, I don’t remember it.

    A little history lesson. They used to take all the entries at the Garden who qualified for the Maclay finals. Finally the logistics got to be too much, and in 1982 they decided to hold a preliminary round at Overpeck in New Jersey a couple of days before the final round on Sunday in city. So all the horses and riders still had to travel from across the country to the metropolitan New York area for the class, but some of them never made it across the bridge into the city if they did not have a good round in New Jersey. (Peter Wylde won that year.)

    The following year, they decided to hold regionals instead, so that people would not have to travel as far to find out if they made the cut for the big day.

    Leave a comment:


  • staceymc
    replied
    Originally posted by Alterforme View Post
    Isn’t that the reason for the different regionals? To have each region represented by their top riders at finals? Or maybe not?
    Not really. I don't think the purpose of Regionals was ever to "have their region represented by their top riders" so much as they're held simply to reduce the number of entrants at the Finals. Medal Finals takes everyone that qualifies and the final goes on for 12 freaking hours. When the Maclay Finals were held at The Garden, there was simply not space (neither for stalls or room on the schedule) for that many competitors. So Regional competitions were held to get the numbers down to manageable levels. When the National moved out of The Garden, I think they briefly made regionals "optional", where even if you weren't a top finisher you could still go to finals. But I may be mis-remembering that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Not a BNR
    replied
    I COMPLETELY agree with Happy Hooves analysis safety issue and you want the best for everyone and the best to represent your region not a guessing game of bravest horse and or rider winning out. This is an equitation final not a no holds bar gutsy test of who can get over an apparently spooky fence. I think judges and technical delegate made excellent quick decision and tried to be fair to ALL the young riders.

    Leave a comment:


  • Happyhooves
    replied
    So, as a nobody in horseshowville who happened to go to spectate and hang out with friends, I'm throwing out my feeble, unqualified opinion on Region 8 simply because it doesn't sit right with me for people to view the do-over as something just done for the heck of it. It seemed warranted--for the good of the horses and junior riders.

    It was pretty clear from practically the beginning that something wasn't right when so many early entrants were having notable issues with this particular fence. Seemed to me that these were good young riders who have experience at national shows, etc., and were riding some fine, been-there, done-that, quality horses (some the kind of horses many of us would make Faustian bargains to ride just once). They've seen their share of difficult, technical courses before and have dealt with tricky questions, jumps with cut-outs and optical illusions, sudden movements, noises, etc. This was different. I could hear everyone buzzing...what IS it with this jump affecting the horses to this degree? the flowers? the fact that the jump was situated was near the rail with people sitting at eye level to the horse? No, that didn't explain it.

    I didn't have a good vantage point, so went to look closer at the jump before the decision was made to change things. The lights were trained down, flooding the dark boxes at the base. Am guessing it looked like a weird abyss/hole or something to the horses. Seemed like some pretty seasoned horsepeople officials made the decision to remove the boxes. Goes without saying that they were fully aware that do-overs aren't something that's done on a whim. Spectators around me had mixed feelings about the decision, but no one seemed to think it was flat-out wrong, even though they hadn't seen it done before. Some of the horses who went back for the do-over had residual issues; something obviously registered way wrong in their horsey brain. I really hope that these horses aren't set back too much confidence-wise or ruined and can regain their mojo quickly.

    I went away thinking, weird, but well, this is an equitation competition that's supposed to have general equitation conventions employed to see who's qualified to represent a region in Finals, not a Who has a Sorta Unusual Horse who didn't React to a Weird Anomaly Light Trick Contest. Seemed to me that you couldn't have this simply be a contest to see who was left standing at the end of it and send them to Finals. If that were the case, you could have just drawn names like a lottery. And then I was thinking furthermore, this was an ASPCA competition after all, and it wouldn't be compassionate to keep sending horses over this weird jump once you determined there was a problem. So here it is, the humble opinion of someone who generally sits in the back and watches/overthinks stuff but doesn't offer commentary in general...

    Leave a comment:


  • KShorseymomma
    replied
    At region 5 regionals, 4 years ago, it was a blood bath. Almost half the class (might have been more than half) had a refusal at a weird brush/hay bale narrow jump off a very short turn. Many horses came around the turn and halted in their tracks. There was no way to get a good approach for a second attempt. Many very good riders were eliminated. No re-do was offered. Many of the first ones to go didn’t get around. There might have been a couple with one refusal that got through to finals. It was terrible!
    It might be on youtube somewhere...2015 Region 5 Regionals.
    Last edited by KShorseymomma; Sep. 17, 2019, 09:36 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    On the general topic of horse show do overs, I have seen them on very rare occasions in the past, typically when there was some sort of issue that could be considered an act of God.

    At Lake Placid last year, a friend of mine was halfway around the course in the hunter ring when one of the decorative trees blew over next to the jump that was maybe three or four strides ahead of him. His horse stopped, and after a very brief pause, the announcer said that he could either start the course over, or continue from that jump. He elected to continue, had an excellent trip, and ended up fourth in the class. So he got a nice ribbon at Lake Placid with a refusal in a good class of about 30 horses! It was sort of a funny thing, but I think it was the only fair thing to do under those circumstances.

    So a do over is not unheard of at a horse show, but it is not very common, either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
    If that press release is accurate and 8 of the first 12 had a refusal or a fall at that one fence, I think revision of that fence and re-rides for those first 12 definitely makes sense. That's a course design problem, not a "it's not your day, oh well" problem.
    It was six if you count the person whose horse over jumped fence two, ultimately causing her to fall at the next fence. Eight of the first twelve opted for a re-ride. I took notes.

    Leave a comment:


  • supershorty628
    replied
    If that press release is accurate and 8 of the first 12 had a refusal or a fall at that one fence, I think revision of that fence and re-rides for those first 12 definitely makes sense. That's a course design problem, not a "it's not your day, oh well" problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alterforme
    replied
    Kids in all regions work really hard all year to get to finals. If what happened at regionals 8, happened at finals do you think they would let kids have a redo & change the fence? Probably not.
    My thoughts on Heritage going outside of their region... not really fair to take spots from those kids from region 5 that have worked just as hard, but might not be as privileged to show all year. Plus, poor horses to have to ship all that way for a weekend when the same class is offered so close to the home barn. I understand that the top riders are the ones that make it to finals, however it’s also all about the $. If heritage showed in there home region , less of their riders would get through, but the top riders would still be on top at finals. It would just give the less privileged regions a chance to send kids to represent their region.

    Isn’t that the reason for the different regionals? To have each region represented by their top riders at finals? Or maybe not?

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    Back in Region 8, here’s a link to the press release. It does briefly discuss the incident. No video, except for interviews, from what I can see. Since when is a fall referred to as a dismount? I suspect that the decision was catalyzed by some combo of a well-known rider falling off and a complaint.

    https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=21VB7WNq-6U

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    If anybody finds video of the original course, could you please post the link here? I would be interested to see it. TIA!

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    Originally posted by Temecula Jumper View Post
    Thanks for the great recap, Peggy. Do you know of any video from the class? I looked for a livestream beforehand but could find nothing. I really wanted to watch since I couldn't make it in person this year.
    I don’t know of anything official. You might be able to nose around on Facebook (try Elvenstar, for example). I videoed one person and will attempt to upload that to Dropbox and PM the link.

    And if you, or anyone, ever goes and wants to meet up, let me know. I’m there pretty much every year.

    Leave a comment:


  • KShorseymomma
    replied
    I was there. I have been at Region 5 Maclay regionals for the past 4 years which is when Heritage started coming. Each year they bring more students. This region encompasses many states and requires far fewer points to qualify as the number of horse shows available is very low. It creates a very unequal playing field. Of the 22 spots awarded for finals, only 6 riders were legitimately from region 5. Heritage isn’t the only barn using region 5 but they, by far, bring the most students.
    49 total riders participated in the class, 18 were “out of region” riders. If the rules were as they were all those years ago when I rode, in region 2, riders would only be allowed to attend their home region or the home region of their trainer. The rules as they stand now are very unfair to riders in the regions with fewer showing opportunities.
    I think there is a better way that could be beneficial to the smaller regions and still allow bigger barns to spread out for regionals. First, you have to declare you region earlier in the season, like March 1, not August 15th. This will help show managers better prepare for the influx of entries not normally seen at shows. Second, riders (trainers) wishing to participate in a region other than their home region must compete in at least 3 shows in that region. This rule will provide better competition in the smaller regions and give support with additional entries to show managers in that region.
    In addition, have an “approved” equitation course book compiled by a committee with trainers, judges and course designers to ensure that all riders across the country are being prepped and tested equally. I was shocked and dismayed to see the types of courses riders in our area qualified on. The “big eq” classes (minus the jumper phases) are always in the hunter ring with a two stride, bending line and maybe a rollback. Kids from bigger regions jump courses that are very technical with multiple combinations, triple bars, end jumps, skinny jumps without wings, etc.
    Not everyone has the means to take off to FL or CA for a winter circuit. The playing field can be leveled somewhat by bringing better competition to all regions and testing riders with courses that ask the same questions no matter where you show and qualify. We need to do better for these kids!
    Last edited by KShorseymomma; Sep. 17, 2019, 09:28 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    I think that is dumb. Show in the region you’re in. Not good enough? That’s life.

    On topic, do-overs? Really?

    Leave a comment:


  • initiate1987
    replied
    FYI on the subject of choosing which region to qualify from. Heritage has been in the game for a long time. They know how to get their kids to Finals. Taken from the Maclay specs:

    Selecting or Changing a Region

    Riders have the option to compete in any Regionals. This may be in either their home region based upon the point requirements of their own official USEF state of residence, or any other region based upon the highest point requirements of any state within that chosen region, whichever is greater (Exception: Riders whose home regions are either in Region 1 or Region 2 may change into Regions 3 through 8, however, those riders may not alternate between Regions 1 or 2)

    Example: If a rider from Florida, which requires 38 points, chooses to compete in the Regionals in Region 1 “Northeast” (CT,MA,ME,NH,RI,VT), he or she would have to have obtained 50 points which is the requirement of the state (CT) within the chosen region with the highest point requirement for qualifying.

    A rider may only change Regions one time per qualifying year. Once a rider completes the paperwork to compete in another Regionals other than his or her own home region, no other Region changes can be made and that rider may not revert back to their home Region.

    Any rider wishing to compete in a different region than their home region must notify the NHS in writing by August 15 using the official form provided by the NHSAA (forms may be downloaded from NHS.org website). On this form each rider will be asked to state his or her intention to compete in the Regionals and in which Region.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    So people can pick which zone just to qualify? I dislike college sports for this reason. Too bad so sad you’re in the zone your in.

    Leave a comment:

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