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Maclay Regionals - Region 8 (CA, HI, NV) - Interesting Night, and Do-Overs

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  • #21
    On the general topic of horse show do overs, I have seen them on very rare occasions in the past, typically when there was some sort of issue that could be considered an act of God.

    At Lake Placid last year, a friend of mine was halfway around the course in the hunter ring when one of the decorative trees blew over next to the jump that was maybe three or four strides ahead of him. His horse stopped, and after a very brief pause, the announcer said that he could either start the course over, or continue from that jump. He elected to continue, had an excellent trip, and ended up fourth in the class. So he got a nice ribbon at Lake Placid with a refusal in a good class of about 30 horses! It was sort of a funny thing, but I think it was the only fair thing to do under those circumstances.

    So a do over is not unheard of at a horse show, but it is not very common, either.

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    • #22
      At region 5 regionals, 4 years ago, it was a blood bath. Almost half the class (might have been more than half) had a refusal at a weird brush/hay bale narrow jump off a very short turn. Many horses came around the turn and halted in their tracks. There was no way to get a good approach for a second attempt. Many very good riders were eliminated. No re-do was offered. Many of the first ones to go didn’t get around. There might have been a couple with one refusal that got through to finals. It was terrible!
      It might be on youtube somewhere...2015 Region 5 Regionals.
      Last edited by KShorseymomma; Sep. 17, 2019, 09:36 AM.

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      • #23
        So, as a nobody in horseshowville who happened to go to spectate and hang out with friends, I'm throwing out my feeble, unqualified opinion on Region 8 simply because it doesn't sit right with me for people to view the do-over as something just done for the heck of it. It seemed warranted--for the good of the horses and junior riders.

        It was pretty clear from practically the beginning that something wasn't right when so many early entrants were having notable issues with this particular fence. Seemed to me that these were good young riders who have experience at national shows, etc., and were riding some fine, been-there, done-that, quality horses (some the kind of horses many of us would make Faustian bargains to ride just once). They've seen their share of difficult, technical courses before and have dealt with tricky questions, jumps with cut-outs and optical illusions, sudden movements, noises, etc. This was different. I could hear everyone buzzing...what IS it with this jump affecting the horses to this degree? the flowers? the fact that the jump was situated was near the rail with people sitting at eye level to the horse? No, that didn't explain it.

        I didn't have a good vantage point, so went to look closer at the jump before the decision was made to change things. The lights were trained down, flooding the dark boxes at the base. Am guessing it looked like a weird abyss/hole or something to the horses. Seemed like some pretty seasoned horsepeople officials made the decision to remove the boxes. Goes without saying that they were fully aware that do-overs aren't something that's done on a whim. Spectators around me had mixed feelings about the decision, but no one seemed to think it was flat-out wrong, even though they hadn't seen it done before. Some of the horses who went back for the do-over had residual issues; something obviously registered way wrong in their horsey brain. I really hope that these horses aren't set back too much confidence-wise or ruined and can regain their mojo quickly.

        I went away thinking, weird, but well, this is an equitation competition that's supposed to have general equitation conventions employed to see who's qualified to represent a region in Finals, not a Who has a Sorta Unusual Horse who didn't React to a Weird Anomaly Light Trick Contest. Seemed to me that you couldn't have this simply be a contest to see who was left standing at the end of it and send them to Finals. If that were the case, you could have just drawn names like a lottery. And then I was thinking furthermore, this was an ASPCA competition after all, and it wouldn't be compassionate to keep sending horses over this weird jump once you determined there was a problem. So here it is, the humble opinion of someone who generally sits in the back and watches/overthinks stuff but doesn't offer commentary in general...

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        • #24
          I COMPLETELY agree with Happy Hooves analysis safety issue and you want the best for everyone and the best to represent your region not a guessing game of bravest horse and or rider winning out. This is an equitation final not a no holds bar gutsy test of who can get over an apparently spooky fence. I think judges and technical delegate made excellent quick decision and tried to be fair to ALL the young riders.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Alterforme View Post
            Isn’t that the reason for the different regionals? To have each region represented by their top riders at finals? Or maybe not?
            Not really. I don't think the purpose of Regionals was ever to "have their region represented by their top riders" so much as they're held simply to reduce the number of entrants at the Finals. Medal Finals takes everyone that qualifies and the final goes on for 12 freaking hours. When the Maclay Finals were held at The Garden, there was simply not space (neither for stalls or room on the schedule) for that many competitors. So Regional competitions were held to get the numbers down to manageable levels. When the National moved out of The Garden, I think they briefly made regionals "optional", where even if you weren't a top finisher you could still go to finals. But I may be mis-remembering that.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by staceymc View Post
              When the National moved out of The Garden, I think they briefly made regionals "optional", where even if you weren't a top finisher you could still go to finals. But I may be mis-remembering that.
              If that happened, I don’t remember it.

              A little history lesson. They used to take all the entries at the Garden who qualified for the Maclay finals. Finally the logistics got to be too much, and in 1982 they decided to hold a preliminary round at Overpeck in New Jersey a couple of days before the final round on Sunday in city. So all the horses and riders still had to travel from across the country to the metropolitan New York area for the class, but some of them never made it across the bridge into the city if they did not have a good round in New Jersey. (Peter Wylde won that year.)

              The following year, they decided to hold regionals instead, so that people would not have to travel as far to find out if they made the cut for the big day.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                MHM I think I remember reading about that and how Peter was worried he would make it through as the conditions were bad (rain? mud?) and he had kind of a rough time as a result.
                The Evil Chem Prof

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                  MHM I think I remember reading about that and how Peter was worried he would make it through as the conditions were bad (rain? mud?) and he had kind of a rough time as a result.
                  Yes, there was a two part feature in Practical Horseman about his win that I read many, many times.

                  The preliminary round in New Jersey was held in an indoor ring, but I think everyone was very nervous under the circumstances.

                  This video shows the setting for both rounds, and both of Peter’s trips, plus lots of fun background footage. It’s an entertaining look down memory lane.

                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvNxHMT5fI

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by MHM View Post

                    Yes, there was a two part feature in Practical Horseman about his win that I read many, many times.

                    The preliminary round in New Jersey was held in an indoor ring, but I think everyone was very nervous under the circumstances.

                    This video shows the setting for both rounds, and both of Peter’s trips, plus lots of fun background footage. It’s an entertaining look down memory lane.

                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvNxHMT5fI
                    Oh my, back in the day! Before the advent of the now ubiquitous, enormous fake tail.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by skydy View Post

                      Oh my, back in the day! Before the advent of the now ubiquitous, enormous fake tail.
                      Yes, lots of things look very different. The video definitely feels like a time capsule.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Region 8 Maclay Regionals was jokingly referred to as the No Child Left Behind Medal Finals, instead of what it should of been. I was there with Peggy and thought the whole do over thing was a joke. Region 5 Maclay Regionals in 2012 was also full of carnage according to my daughter who ended up eighth. The course favored a bold rider and horse. Heritage did not show up then. My daughter who was from California, was a working student in St. Louis and had to get the Zone 10 qualifying points total in order to compete there, even though her trainer was based in Zone 5.
                        Last edited by PonyPenny; Sep. 21, 2019, 11:11 PM.

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                        • #32
                          Region 8 Maclay Regionals was jokingly referred to as the No Child Left Behind Medal Finals, instead of what it should of been. I was there with Peggy and thought the whole do over thing was a joke. Region 5 Maclay Regionals in 2012 was also full of carnage according to my daughter who ended up eighth. The course favored a bold rider and horse. Heritage did not show up then. My daughter who was from California, was a working student in St. Louis and had to get the Zone 10 qualifying points total in order to compete there, even though her trainer was based in Zone 7.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            If 50% of the first 20% of the class had a major problem at a single fence, that's concerning, and indicative that there's a problem to which the course designer should respond.

                            From what Peggy and HappyHooves said, the design of the fence, in context of the show environmental conditions, were set up to produce a question that horses could not read and could not answer. I wasn't there, but it sounds like the show management handled it appropriately.
                            "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

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                            • #34
                              If anyone has a pic of this notorious fence, I would love to see it

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by StormyDay View Post
                                If anyone has a pic of this notorious fence, I would love to see it
                                This photo popped up on my FB feed today.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Temecula Jumper View Post

                                  This photo popped up on my FB feed today.
                                  Do you know if that was before or after they made the alterations?

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by initiate1987 View Post

                                    Do you know if that was before or after they made the alterations?
                                    My understanding is that this was before the modifications and re-do.

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by initiate1987 View Post

                                      Do you know if that was before or after they made the alterations?
                                      Before. The viaducts and flowers were removed. They were outside the ring with ring crew members perched on them.
                                      The Evil Chem Prof

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Temecula Jumper View Post

                                        This photo popped up on my FB feed today.
                                        Huh. It doesn’t look all that bizarre in the picture, but obviously many horses felt differently about it.

                                        I still remember the year someone had the bright idea to include a decorative fish pond in the ring at Harrisburg for the Medal finals. It was not part of any jump, and the horses had to just go past it on the way to another jump. But quite a few of the horses had a strong reaction to it, including a few that would have been considered favorites that day.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by MHM View Post

                                          Huh. It doesn’t look all that bizarre in the picture
                                          That was my exact thought when I looked at the jump..until I blinked and turned my head slightly and then the boxes morphed into a giant bottomless pit under the jump.

                                          What an interesting situation!
                                          www.DaventryEquestrian.com
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                                          Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
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