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  • Not sure if this is the right page, but.....

    I have a young horse who has learned to make a quick 180* and bolt. And nk\o one can hold on, I have tried: putting the lunge line over his nose and his pole. I have tried a western bridle that is supposed to tighten over his nose. None of thse things works because he has realized that he will get free quickly.

    Suggestions? I used to have a tack noseband but no more. I have thought of that gizmo which tightens over 1 foot, so the horse goes ass over teakettle, but is that fair to the horse? I would love to hear how other people have solved this problem,
    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

  • #2
    Is this in-hand or with a rider up? or both?
    ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

    Comment


    • #3
      Only had one that was chronic as you describe. I sold him, with disclosure, to a young Pro who fixed him, sort of. He never was anything past average and never anything but a Pro ride. Just didn’t seem to have good sense or any desire to work with you. Later learned his mother was the same way.

      Think you should send him out to somebody as well as ruling out the usual health suspects. You need to get him to unlearn that and relearn proper behavior and respect.

      And IIRC Happy Birthday. No way anybody our age needs to mess with stuff like this. 40, 50 years ago it would have been fun.Actually, think I was around 35 when I sold that spin and speeder, it wasn’t really much fun even back then, even with the western saddle with handle and that sucker did it on the ground too, no warning.
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


      • #4
        I presume you are talking about when the horse is being lunged...

        I had one that did this...the Pessoa Rig gave me great control and I made it a tad snug and lunged a tad less. Because when mine tried to go the other way...the head came flinging up and they spun to the outside (even in a round pen), but the Pessoa kept them from flinging their head up.

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        • #5
          Or they throw themselves over or fall down and yes they can too in something like a Pessoa if they get dramatic enough and don’t care if they hurt themselves. Hopefully LHs youngster is not one of those and a good handler can get him figured out and on the right track for her with nobody getting hurt.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

          Comment


          • #6
            I had a young mare that needed to be long-lined for the first ~3 months until she learned manners on the lunge line. If she wasn’t trying to spin away (and she’s spin herself until she was basically hogtied), she would turn in and give indications that she was going to charge.
            Long-lining was the only way I could get control of her outside shoulder/hip, and keep her going in the direction that *I* wanted her to go.

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            • #7
              Lunging cavesson with a wrapped bicycle chain as the noseband.
              "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

              "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

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              • #8
                Mine did this twice at 4. I put him in a neck stretcher with a bridle (happy mouth bit) to a surcingle. I’m not typically a fan of neck stretchers but easy on/off and more control than just side reins. Gave me enough control to end it. He’s now 8 and knock wood no third time. I don’t lunge him often but I still am wary. Bad habit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by findeight View Post
                  Or they throw themselves over or fall down and yes they can too in something like a Pessoa if they get dramatic enough and don’t care if they hurt themselves. Hopefully LHs youngster is not one of those and a good handler can get him figured out and on the right track for her with nobody getting hurt.
                  Totally agree. Mine was just being a wise banana from time to time (only did it in one direction) and mine did not do it while leading or being handled.

                  Serious issues need to go off to professionals for behavior modification.
                  Last edited by Elouise; Sep. 7, 2019, 04:29 PM. Reason: clarification/typos

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                  • #10
                    Do you have access to a round pen?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
                      I have a young horse who has learned to make a quick 180* and bolt. And nk\o one can hold on, I have tried: putting the lunge line over his nose and his pole. I have tried a western bridle that is supposed to tighten over his nose. None of thse things works because he has realized that he will get free quickly.

                      Suggestions? I used to have a tack noseband but no more. I have thought of that gizmo which tightens over 1 foot, so the horse goes ass over teakettle, but is that fair to the horse? I would love to hear how other people have solved this problem,
                      Is this all about longeing?

                      Honestly IME they all have the ability to bolt on longe. I would get the horse into an arena or round pen and free longe/chase him at a gallop until you get the wiggles out, and then settle down to longe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You need to be in a round pen. Are you?
                        and i would first teach him to go forward on a 12 ft cotton lead. Not a regular longeline. They can trot on that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My appaloosa gelding did the spin, buck and gallop off thing ONLY when being let out in his paddock/pasture - when removing the halter. He'd stand quietly, let you unbuckle the halter, but as soon as you reached for the crown piece, all bets were off!!! Perfect everywhere else - leading, crosstieing, lungeing... no issue at all. Odd thing, is that he only spun clockwise - every single time. So I fixed his little OMG I'm Free Whoopeee! by standing him right next to the run-in shed, head facing the water trough, then took his halter off.

                          First couple of times he tried to spin clockwise, we whacked himself in the shoulder of the 4-board wall of the run-in shed, and then looked at me like "who the heck put that there?". After a few times, he gave up, and I can now remove the halter without him going postal - though I still put him in the same place, just in case.

                          So if this is indeed a lunging issue only, then I recommend only lunging in a round pen or very small paddock - something with solid sides 360° around. If he tries to bolt, he has nowhere to go. And if he does try, I'd canter him around and around and around, until he figures out that isn't a whole lot of fun.
                          ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes a lunging pen is better but we don't have one.

                            For turning when I don't want it. I add an outside lunge rein. No side reins but the outside rein goes through the stirrup on the top hole and around the rump.

                            For the darling that came here for retraining and I was told to only lunge him in a round pen I soon found out why. If too much rein was given in canter, even I could not hold him. He was an expert at getting away and he knew exactly how to do it.

                            So I now had a horse bolting off dragging the lunge rope around a 60m arena. I tightened the side reins to the maximum of his training and I kept him moving. I called him. When he faced me I lowered the lunge whip and in a calm voicesaidcgood boy.. When he went past me I whacked the lunge whip as hard as I could behind him to make him go faster.

                            It didn't take him long to realise it was a lot of work and halted when I called halt. He did it twice that day. Once the next day and didn't do it again for me. I am sure he would try it with the next person as he was such an expert at it.
                            It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by fourfillies View Post
                              Mine did this twice at 4. I put him in a neck stretcher with a bridle (happy mouth bit) to a surcingle. I’m not typically a fan of neck stretchers but easy on/off and more control than just side reins. Gave me enough control to end it. He’s now 8 and knock wood no third time. I don’t lunge him often but I still am wary. Bad habit.
                              By "Neck stretcher" do you mean "Chambon"?
                              "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I see the neckstretcher as a cheap DIY Chambon that is easier to get on and off. Basically a bungee cord with an adjustable loop at the poll and clips for the girth/surcingle. You could get them from Dover a few years ago, actually called neckstretchers. I’d never ride in one but folks do. Was a very cheap, thankfully effective, option for my the acting out phase of my red headed but not violent young one.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Over the years I have learned that well fitted pair of side reins can avoid the spin and bolt on the longe. I usually use a cavesson over a bridle., and occasionally if really pushed a chain over the nose, set up properly.

                                  Undersaddle I have seen people ride in Vienna reins , again well adjusted, for a horse that bolted, as most horses who do so go above the bit. I've never tried it myself.
                                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                                  • #18
                                    I'd send him out.

                                    I'd not try to save a little cash here, because if you send him out to someone who's pretty good... but not good enough to fix the problem...y ou now have a bigger problem, and it will take more time with a better ''problem fixer' than it would have in the first place.

                                    So spending the $$ on the person with the stellar reputation, a long waiting list and a monthly fee three times what everyone else charges...might actually be the quickest and cheapest, and most effective option.

                                    And if you get some Really Good help, you might learn some things about this horse in particular that will be helpful for a very long time.

                                    Susan Hopkins at Sullivan Farms Hannoverians sponsors a Buck Brannaman clinic in North Carolina. She would probably know who in the area might be able to help you, without making a rogue mess out of your horse.

                                    I would have a few other ideas of how to find Really Good Help if you want to pm me.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I know of a horse who was initially allowed to get away with it in hand leading out to turnout by barn staff, and it then progressed to happening while longing, and the long and short of it is that it's now an ingrained habit. He knows he can do it and he does it when he feels like it. And I've seen his owner end up face down in the dirt more than once, and I almost did myself - and would have if I hadn't let go in time.

                                      If this becomes ingrained, it is a major issue and in my opinion, it's a trick that needs to be dealt with quite seriously because it can so easily lead to injury - either to the handler, to the horse if he's loose, or to others when he's loose. The horse I know of has gotten loose at every single show he's been at (or almost every single show) and he has injured his owner twice.

                                      The round pen seems easiest BUT you don't have access to a round pen at shows. So while I'd perhaps use it as a stepping stone, just be aware that some are smart enough to know when they can get away with it and when they can't.

                                      I think what's important is to make sure you have something on him that he respects, be it a bit (as strong as needed) or a shank over the nose or some sort of longing aids (neck stretcher, chambon, draw reins, pessoa, etc.). You need to be able to stop him from doing this. Again, it only takes a handful of successes for it to become a nasty habit and this can be dangerous.

                                      If he can throw the head up and the shoulder toward you, you're toast. So a longing aid that keeps the head down and the shoulder straight or bent to the inside should theoretically help keep enough control that he can't get enough strength. And you need to be lightening quick with a strong enough response that you shut it down right away.

                                      The aforementioned horse's owner chose to deal with it by one of the very popular natural horsemanship methods. I think natural horsemanship works on many things, and perhaps the owner hasn't applied it correctly, but the soft rope halter does absolutely nothing to stop her 1300 lb warmblood from busting away from her, and all the exercises on the ground when he's paying attention hasn't at all stopped him from deciding to leave when he wants to. So just be careful to choose a method that stops it quick, because to me (perhaps due to having seen this horse get away over and over and over) this is an issue to be dealt with as strictly as possible because of it's propensity to cause harm.

                                      Also - I would never, ever let this horse loose in an arena and for playtime. He'd get turnout in a true turnout paddock/pasture or he'd get longed (if we worked the kinks out) but I think that being loose playing in an arena only enforces the idea to a horse. Thought that's worth mentioning because I know some people will turn them out to chase/play in the arena prior to riding in lieu of turnout or longing, but I'd be very careful with that. You don't want one who wants get away having tons of fun loose in his place of work.
                                      Jennifer Baas
                                      It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Stacie View Post
                                        Lunging cavesson with a wrapped bicycle chain as the noseband.
                                        People actually do stuff like this? Ugh.

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