Stallion Spotlight

C-Quito1

Real Estate Spotlight

DJI_0011-HDR
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Pricing the Complicated Horse (with AA-show record)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by kara155 View Post

    HOWEVER: He may or may not always jump. When he's good, he's really, really good. When he does stop, it happens 2-3 strides away from the jump - never a "dirty stop" - it's more of a slow-motion spook. And he's not a particularly "spooky" horse - it's only triggered by jumps (or stacks of poles that resemble jumps) coupled with any tension or anxiety he senses from the rider.
    I think you will have to be very honest with yourself about how often this happens. No one wants to go into the ring with a 50/50 chance that the horse is simply not going to want to play ball that day. That isn't fun, and, frankly, selling him on to a jumping home under those circumstances will be setting him up to fail.

    I do think that someone on relative budget will be willing to take a chance if it really is occasional, and he then can be convinced to jump around afterward. Does he have the stop/look, and then jump the fence on the second attempt and continue on? Or does it become a point of contention?




    Comment


    • #22
      I’m not currently shopping. But I’m a good riding amateur who would take on this kind of project. I’d look to spend around 10k with hopes of a solid program would bring him to the point of a 3’ type with other future good riders and looking to sell him in a year or so.

      I bought a similar type with a different issue (lead changes) summer of last year for 8k. Less the record though. I was able to turn him around and would have had him for sale this fall if he wouldn’t have gone and died on me.

      I then followed up that buy on a horse with no record and no holes but a little bit of age for around double what I’m recommending for your price.

      Your kind of buyer is out there. But whomever said finding the right rider will be hard is right.
      My adventures as a working rider

      theworkingrider.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • #23
        I think this is something you disclose clearly in the sale ad, while trying to sell him for a price in the under $20k range. The challenge, I think, is that if he's really picky about riders and comes undone so easily, you really risk setting him back every time the "wrong" rider tries him.

        But I don't necessarily see any harm in marketing him with a good show video, a low price, and very clear disclosures, and seeing what comes of it. I recently saw an ad on Facebook for a similar horse: Big record, relatively low pricetag, disclosure that he won't jump for just anyone. That one was from a big dealer, and she wanted to basically sell just off the video. So it is maybe possible. I would think the lower the price and the better (and more recent) the video, the more likely you could convince someone serious that it would be worth taking a risk.

        I'm the kind of amateur who rides relatively well and doesn't have a huge budget, so I might be open to a good horse with a known hole, as long as I thought I could manage it. But I would probably, personally, want to arrange some kind of lease-option deal to be sure the match made sense for my program.

        Comment


        • #24
          My guess is you could get $15-20k for him right now as an amateur dressage prospect with the temperament you describe. He's probably ready to go at first level and likely has the athleticism to do 2nd and 3rd after some training.
          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

          Comment


          • #25
            OP, is this your horse? Or is their an owner you are working fir to get him sold?
            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

            Comment


            • #26
              OP, look at this horse like a racehorse. Good racehorses get sold for big money at the yearling sales, go on to have some varying degree of success or failure at the track, then do other things. They don't remain racehorses forever.

              Your horse had his time as a show hunter, with some success. Let him go on to do other things.
              "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu
              Semantics

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                My guess is you could get $15-20k for him right now as an amateur dressage prospect with the temperament you describe. He's probably ready to go at first level and likely has the athleticism to do 2nd and 3rd after some training.
                I agree with this option. Find a decent trainer in your area, explain your problem, pay them to ride the horse once or twice AND in a video. Presuming he has correct changes, make sure they are in video. He's got the size, he's a WB, he's otherwise sane and has done horse shows. He would sell.

                IMO if you try to find him a home that involves jumping, it can only have a crappy ending.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Sounds like he needs his special person who is willing to drop him back down to 2'3"-2'6" and raise the bar slowly over MONTHS. However, that is not guaranteed to work. If he is pretty and fancy and could do dressage, maybe get a dressage trainer on him 3 months and go from there. As a jumper, I would be inclined to pay $5K because whatever I'm going to do has a slim chance of working. If it does, major score for me. If it doesn't, I'm hosed. I'm an eventer by the way and we sometimes see this in horses that were overfaced and scared themselves.
                  "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Like CindyCRNA above, I have seen horses that were overfaced behave like this. They were forced, tried to
                    please anyway, hurt themselves and got scared. Then got punished for being scared and not wanting to get hurt more.

                    You can do this to a horse in a week. Easy. One of the very few ways you can really ruin a horse. Never saw one completely get over this. They trusted and were betrayed and when you show them a fence or even get near one, they remember they did as they were asked and got hurt then asked again and punished if they won’t try.. They are done. Quite happy doing something else, try their hearts out for you...long as there’s no jump involved.

                    Sorry. Shouldn’t have happened but a career change would seem to be in his best interests. Especially since it seems this has happened to him twice in his short life. Don’t blame him one bit for reacting this way. It’s self defense.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I have a horse who is kind of similar, very sensitive. He's almost 18h, great and very fancy looking. We moved him over to jumpers from the hunters and for the most part, he is awesome. But sometimes I feel like he doesn't really like his job.

                      He is unreal fun on the flat, he can do every kind of lateral move you want, he'll happily canter half passes for you, do big expressive changes if you set him up for them, collect extend etc. He is a beautiful mover and really wants to please.

                      I do not feel right selling this horse. I just feel like some equitation barn would get him and torture him to make him quiet and competitive.

                      Do dressage folks do leases? Are they different than HJ leases? Is my best bet to find a nice dressage trainer?

                      I would really like to retire him properly, he is such a kind loving horse, he deserves that for sure.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Dressage folks do leases, but they tend to be free/care leases unless the horse is doing the mid/upper levels.

                        OP: I'd recommend you find a local dressage trainer with a solid show record to come ride him a few times. If he can be really soft and pleasant at first level (which most hunters should be capable of), you might find it best from a cost perspective to sell him without additional dressage training.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
                          Dressage folks do leases, but they tend to be free/care leases unless the horse is doing the mid/upper levels.
                          I agree with this. You give the average dressage trainer your modest lease price in terms of hunter pricing for a dressage prospect and they will go . But greysfordays doing a cheap to free/care lease on your horse could be a way to step him down appropriately off of your bill. If his flatwork is good enough at the moment to get someone their bronze maybe you could get a small-ish fee with the lease.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by OnDeck View Post
                            I would sell this horse with full disclosure that horse will stop with the wrong person. Then it's going to be a long search for the right person. His price is whatever that person is willing to pay. I imagine this type of horse going to a good riding junior on a budget, probably the kid of a pro. If he jumps with you it's at least worth a shot to find someone else he will trust... the stars may align.
                            This

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It seems that you and your trainer have figured out the key to this horse. Your best bet would be a scenario where the buyer or potential buyer could spend time riding him with you and or your trainer to see if they "work." Despite the successful record, selling him as a "show horse" is probably off the table.
                              There might be a good young pro looking to make a name who would be willing or a good riding ammy who would be willing to try a horse like this but his price would have to reflect the fact that as is, he isn't a legit show hunter.
                              The other option is to allow him to try other things like dressage or fox hunting. Maybe he's just looking for a change?
                              F O.B
                              Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                              Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Another vanishing one time poster?
                                Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                                  Another vanishing one time poster?
                                  Nope, she’s got 6 posts and describes this same horse spooking at “ everything in the ring” last November, check her profile.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    This is the exact type of horse I look for to lease for my clients or buy if the cost is right. Currently have one that had early stage ring bone. Owner wanted to have him stop jumping and a good home. Have had him for two years and he’s a great Dressage horse. He’s leased out to a client and teaches two lessons per week.

                                    I did get him for free with understanding that that I can’t maintain him and he is no longer sound with all options for vet care used, I will euth. Sad but I completely understand and agreed. I’m still in contact with old owner and send video clips and updates.

                                    Something similar to my situation may be worth looking into so you stop hemorrhaging money immediately. Now your horse is sound and quite young so would be worth some money for sure unlike the one I have who was 10 and had a bad and short prognosis.

                                    I would be curious if there are horses like this common in the hunter/jumper world? I don’t have a lot of connections in that world and would certainly be interested in horses that have been injured or older need maintenance etc. maybe I’ll start another thread....
                                    http://www.windsweptfarmllc.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      OP, I would try to sell this horse to a non-jumping home. This is a well-trained horse who enjoys flatwork, right? Yes, there is a buyer. The buyer is a rider who is stepping down from h/j stuff: maybe less and less interested in jumping, and more interesting in just riding at home for fun, or showing in local shows in english flat classes. This is going to be a low $ sale, but yes, this buyer is out there. IMHO, your horse may have a problem that is developing, slowly, regarding eye sight or some other low-level neuro problem. Best wishes to find this buyer!

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X