Stallion Spotlight

Zucchero Gold - Wandres, Frederic - 838-BC18_REU2723-foto_reumann

Real Estate Spotlight

DSC_0001
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

In gate anticipation/anxiety

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In gate anticipation/anxiety

    You know, as soon as I run my mouth about this exact topic, here it comes up in my own life...

    Mare is an anxious animal. It's how she's wired, and we can manage to keep a lid on it 99% of the time.

    We are eventers, but she doesn't seem to have much of an issue with the XC start box... just comes unglued waiting for the bell in stadium - running sideways, flicking her head, very excited (first few canter strides are like bunny hops), won't stand or walk quietly.

    I recognize one of the triggers is me shortening the reins, so I spend most of my warm up going between a long rein, shortening to jumping length, waiting for her to chill out, then back to a long rein. It doesn't take her long to figure out to stay chill. But as soon as we go in the actual ring, she's in crazy-pants mode. The second we are done, I can put her back on a loose rein and she's fine, and in the warm up area I can shorten my reins and she doesn't care. ....smart mare.

    FWIW, it's not flatwork related - while we aren't world-beaters in dressage, we are nearly always in the 30-33s. She has no anxiety there, and is quite pleasant.

    I would like for her to be able to walk in a ring and keep a lid on it until it's game time. Right now her idea of when game time starts and mine are about 30 seconds apart from each other's. The show this past weekend, I didn't feel comfortable with the nice volunteer ladies putting ribbons on her, that's how uptight she was about being in the ring with the jumps.

    I was thinking of taking her to a jumper show and entering in all the pee-wee stuff to have lots of in gate practice, and then walk-trot the whole course so she doesn't get that adrenaline kick, or just go on past the 45 second limit if needed - you must relax before we can move out. I will fully admit that she is borderline dangerous in how she behaves when that fired up - I can feel how light her front end is, and she already isn't playing with a full deck sometimes I think. She is not typically a rearer, so that part of it isn't something I can easily recreate.

    While I have no problem taking her to a show with my humble suit on, I was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how to do some work on this at home, or a specific way they've handled this in the past. I know she'll never be a lamb, and I appreciate that she's pumped to do her job, but she needs to keep it "in the box" so we aren't a nuisance. Especially at bigger jumper shows, when they send you in a good while before the previous horse finished, she needs to know how to handle this a bit better than currently.

    TL;DR - how to deal with in-gate anticipation? Exercises to work on at home? A new way to shut it down, and encourage relaxation? Do I just start trotting the second I get in the ring so she never gets that sucked back feeling of "going to explode"? (is that rude to the judge to just give a basic nod, and not a salute because I'm sitting on a keg of dynamite?)

  • #2
    *following* I dont have any answers but my mare is similar so you are not alone

    Comment


    • #3
      The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is just going to some schooling jumper shows and using the rounds to school her on relaxing a bit. Try different methods there, see what helps. If you set up courses at home, does she do the same thing? If not you might just have to go find some cheap shows where you can do a few rounds, it's pretty hard to simulate that whole environment at home.

      Comment


      • #4
        Most jumper judges at USEF shows don’t expect any sort of nod or salute or anything of the kind. They just want you to wait for the bell before you cross the start line. That doesn’t mean you have to stand still or walk until the bell. You can walk or trot or canter a circle (or ten circles) if you want to, as long as you don’t cross between the timers before the bell.

        If you cross the start line before the bell, you are eliminated. If you cross the start line after your 45 seconds are up, you are just more likely to get time faults by the end of the course. There is no other penalty.

        If you are doing an unrecognized show that does not follow USEF rules, they may do things differently.

        I would be much more concerned about the horse acting up around bystanders and other horses near the ingate, strictly for safety reasons.

        There are some horses that trot or canter through the ingate, but I am really not a fan of that practice, again, for safety reasons. It is just way too easy for an accident to happen. It only takes one inattentive person in the vicinity for someone to really get hurt.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post
          The only thing I could think of off the top of my head is just going to some schooling jumper shows and using the rounds to school her on relaxing a bit. Try different methods there, see what helps. If you set up courses at home, does she do the same thing? If not you might just have to go find some cheap shows where you can do a few rounds, it's pretty hard to simulate that whole environment at home.
          No, she can borderline be jumped on a loose rein at home, most days. Occasionally she's a powder keg, but that's maybe 1 out of 10 schooling sessions, and she settles down to something reasonable quickly.

          Ugh, I don't really have the time/money/inclination to show up at a schooling jumper show, but I'll look around at the local guys and see when they've got something going on. She's such a powerhouse, she will jump anything from anywhere. Just wish she would pipe down a touch.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by MHM View Post
            Most jumper judges at USEF shows don’t expect any sort of nod or salute or anything of the kind. They just want you to wait for the bell before you cross the start line. That doesn’t mean you have to stand still until the bell. You can walk or trot or canter a circle (or ten circles) if you want to, as long as you don’t cross between the timers before the bell.

            If you cross the start line before the bell, you are eliminated. If you cross the start line after your 45 seconds are up, you are just more likely to get time faults by the end of the course. There is no other penalty.

            If you are doing an unrecognized show that does not follow USEF rules, may do things differently.

            I would be much more concerned about the horse acting up around bystanders and other horses near the ingate, strictly for safety reasons.
            Totally agreed with the last part, though she does keep it together until we are in (for now, fully aware this can spiral out of control getting worse and worse until she's dangerous before we even head in). I just need "volume" button, or an "off switch" for her.

            At this show, a schooling mini event, it was specifically stated by the announcer that we are to acknowledge the judge and wait for the bell. I knew I wasn't going to do that from a standstill because this mare isn't a stander-stiller, I just don't want to do it from a skittering sideways either.

            So what does acknowledge mean, when the judge is on the second floor of a building behind super shiny glass and I can't see her face to know if she saw my acknowledgement or not!? Gahhh I don't want to be rude...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
              So what does acknowledge mean, when the judge is on the second floor of a building behind super shiny glass and I can't see her face to know if she saw my acknowledgement or not!? Gahhh I don't want to be rude...
              If you are sitting on a fireball, I would certainly think you could just nod in the direction of the judge. At the trot, if necessary.

              When the bell sounds, that means the judge saw your acknowledgment. The whole point of waiting for the start signal is to be sure that the judge is organized for the next round and has the timers set and ready. So once you hear the start signal, you are good to go.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by MHM View Post

                If you are sitting on a fireball, I would certainly think you could just nod in the direction of the judge. At the trot, if necessary.

                When the bell sounds, that means the judge saw your acknowledgment. The whole point of waiting for the start signal is to be sure that the judge is organized for the next round and has the timers set and ready. So once you hear the start signal, you are good to go.
                Ok, this seems much more do-able than getting her totally settled and 110% relaxed. She's a mover, it's how she releases her anxiety. She used to be like this in the warm up, too, but since we have more time to work on it (walk around and around...), we are totally cool there. I honestly don't even jump a warm up jump before stadium unless she feels a little sluggish.

                Next time I will try to immediately set her off on a long trot and see if that keeps the top on the can better. Maybe enter at the trot, whoa, back a step, nod, canter depart and wait for the bell.

                Stinkin' horses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                  Ugh, I don't really have the time/money/inclination to show up at a schooling jumper show,
                  Don't think of it this way. Think of it as you doing what you need to do for your mare to be better. You have the time/money/inclination to do events...this is just making you better for that. Like a dressage lesson, or a XC school.

                  I say that because I think it's your best bet on settling her and getting her more relaxed once she's in the competition ring. Honestly, if there is a difference between the warm-up and the schooling ring...and she's fine with a course of jumps while she's at home, maybe also think about how you, as the rider, are different in the competition ring. I would wager some money that she's feeding off of something you're doing, whether you know it or not.

                  Go to a local show that is a few days. School in the ring on the first day. Go in the ring, trot, exit the ring. Go in the ring, canter, exit. Go in the ring, walk around, exit. Keep doing different things so she isn't sure what to expect. You will also learn quickly if you are part of the problem. If she can go in a ring at a show with a full course of jumps to school, it will point to your energy setting her off.

                  Do ticketed warm-up rounds. Do regular rounds with your goal being a calm entrance/start of the course.


                  Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                  Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post

                    Ok, this seems much more do-able than getting her totally settled and 110% relaxed. She's a mover, it's how she releases her anxiety. She used to be like this in the warm up, too, but since we have more time to work on it (walk around and around...), we are totally cool there. I honestly don't even jump a warm up jump before stadium unless she feels a little sluggish.

                    Next time I will try to immediately set her off on a long trot and see if that keeps the top on the can better. Maybe enter at the trot, whoa, back a step, nod, canter depart and wait for the bell.

                    Stinkin' horses.
                    My bold

                    I wouldn't ever pass on doing a few warm up jumps. If you're not doing that your mare may be feeling like the two of you are going in cold turkey and unprepared and that could cause anxiety. As well she's missing out on the physical need to warm up those muscles differently than in a flat session.

                    A few nice warm up jumps beforehand are another signal to her that this is her next job and you guys are on it.
                    One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
                    William Shakespeare

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by RugBug View Post

                      Don't think of it this way. Think of it as you doing what you need to do for your mare to be better. You have the time/money/inclination to do events...this is just making you better for that. Like a dressage lesson, or a XC school.

                      I say that because I think it's your best bet on settling her and getting her more relaxed once she's in the competition ring. Honestly, if there is a difference between the warm-up and the schooling ring...and she's fine with a course of jumps while she's at home, maybe also think about how you, as the rider, are different in the competition ring. I would wager some money that she's feeding off of something you're doing, whether you know it or not.

                      Go to a local show that is a few days. School in the ring on the first day. Go in the ring, trot, exit the ring. Go in the ring, canter, exit. Go in the ring, walk around, exit. Keep doing different things so she isn't sure what to expect. You will also learn quickly if you are part of the problem. If she can go in a ring at a show with a full course of jumps to school, it will point to your energy setting her off.

                      Do ticketed warm-up rounds. Do regular rounds with your goal being a calm entrance/start of the course.

                      Oh I'm sure I'm totally guilty of doing something that sets her off. Probably my leg is a little more "on" in the sense that I'm about to jump and will need the grip. Or my breathing changes, or something.

                      I don't really budget heavily for showing, but a few $15 classes I can probably swing, to test. To my knowledge, schooling shows don't do ticketed warm ups, but maybe I can find one with baby-baby hunter stuff and go make an ass out of us both in the hunter ring.

                      *cue someone telling me I can get dog care for the cost of an extra schooling show*

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ohmyheck View Post

                        My bold

                        I wouldn't ever pass on doing a few warm up jumps. If you're not doing that your mare may be feeling like the two of you are going in cold turkey and unprepared and that could cause anxiety. As well she's missing out on the physical need to warm up those muscles differently than in a flat session.

                        A few nice warm up jumps beforehand are another signal to her that this is her next job and you guys are on it.
                        It does not help, it makes things exponentially worse, and she has already done XC that day so she knows what she's doing. I've tried it both ways, and no warm up jump before stadium is 10x better for her/us. This is beginner novice, 2'6", not the 1.20m or anything.

                        I don't think horses comprehend "cold turkey" the way you're describing it, personally. The muscle warm up, I'd argue that at such a low height she's borderline stepping over them, but when she over jumps by 2 ft, I would have to agree.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          By cold turkey I mean 'what is next?'. Horses certainly wonder that. A couple of warm up jumps are one more piece of that puzzle for them.

                          But if it makes her worse then maybe you can talk with a coach who is already onsite to help you guys work through the whole stadium process.

                          We've done that before when we've had the need. It helped mightily!
                          One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
                          William Shakespeare

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Honestly, my first thought was just have her trot in through the in gate. I've seen people do it at shows. I mean, maybe it will make your problem worse, but maybe not? When you know you're about 2 out in warm up or something, just casually pick up your reins, maybe do another jump, get her supple at the trot, do transitions, do whatever to get her brain engaged and then when it's your turn just trot right on into the arena. Sometimes "forcing" them to relax has the exact opposite effect. Is she an OTTB?I find this with my mare, if I think "relax, DAMNIT!" then that's a surefire way to make her have a stick of dynamite up her butt. In our dressage warm up (our biggest struggle), I have to let her do lots of stretch trot work and strech a bunch at the canter before we can actually go to more collected work - if I try to make her walk too soon she just gets pissed.

                            It's interesting she doesn't have that same reaction in the start box though, so there must be something related to the stadium ring and going in there. At one event that I go to a lot, the stadium warm up is in a dark, indoor crowded chaotic arena and then the show jump ring is beautiful and open and bright and all the horses always go "woahhh WHAT" at first LOL. So I wonder if it's just anxiety over the difference between warm up ring and the actually stadium ring?

                            My first couple of shows I didn't even know you were supposed to formally acknowledge the stadium judge (oops LOL). After I learned, I always just nod to them - it's never been an issue.
                            I just started a blog!
                            Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rnichols View Post
                              Honestly, my first thought was just have her trot in through the in gate. I've seen people do it at shows. I mean, maybe it will make your problem worse, but maybe not?
                              Just make sure to ask permission from and coordinate this with the gate person first. The angriest I’ve ever seen a gate person was when someone didn’t ask/give heads up on this - I can no longer recall if there were official show rules backing him up but he definitely threatened to have them scratched from the rest of the show if they ever pulled that again. Keep your gate people happy!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Redlei44 View Post

                                Just make sure to ask permission from and coordinate this with the gate person first. The angriest I’ve ever seen a gate person was when someone didn’t ask/give heads up on this - I can no longer recall if there were official show rules backing him up but he definitely threatened to have them scratched from the rest of the show if they ever pulled that again. Keep your gate people happy!
                                Just as a general FYI. It is specifically against the USEF rules in all hunter and equitation classes to enter or leave the ring at anything other than a walk. It is cause for elimination from the class on the spot.

                                It is not against the rules in jumper classes, but as noted above, it is a very good idea to communicate and coordinate with the starter ahead of time, just for the sake of safety.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  We have a couple that are total fireballs, not eventers, just jumpers (surprise, they're all chestnuts!). Once they get past the in gate they can't walk or stand. Usually their rider will pick up a gallop, weave around the arena, stop them, back them, then go. Somewhere in that process the buzzer is rung. If you have a type you can't stop and back we have found weaving around some fences so they have to think about what they're doing helps engage their brains and prevents you from having a fight about just walking, which they will. not. do. Some of them just need to be mentally engaged the second you walk in the ring in order to contain their adrenaline.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post

                                    It does not help, it makes things exponentially worse, and she has already done XC that day so she knows what she's doing. I've tried it both ways, and no warm up jump before stadium is 10x better for her/us. This is beginner novice, 2'6", not the 1.20m or anything.
                                    My former mare did best with a flat warm-up and then doing her first jumps in the competition ring. She was a former hunt horse and when she came to live with me, she went from being in very large groups, to doing just about everything by herself. When she got to shows...she was so excited to be in company that a warm up ring could spin her out. It was best to be early in the morning for the ticketed warm-up and then do as little as needed in the warm-up ring.

                                    I've also used the minimal warm-up when their is bad footing in the schooling ring. Do as little as possible in that ring and build your classes so you can get some warm-up in the competition ring. 'Course this is all contingent on a show schedule that allows that to happen.

                                    So, that is to say, I support you doing what you need for your mare.

                                    All of our local shows have some sort of ticketed warm up or schooling options. Hopefully you have something around you that allows the same.

                                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      These are all some really great suggestions. I'll remember just the nod, and will not wait for the judge to acknowledge me back past the bell/buzzer. That alone will be a huge help in being able to just focus on the task at hand, which for 20 seconds is "don't die" and after that we jump like freaks.

                                      She was actually REALLY good after her little melt down. One of our more rideable, quiet rounds, with a really good flow - only one fence did she play the "liverpool" game on me (she takes landing poles as personal challenges, she prefers a close spot and landing further out), but there was a rollback right after which got her back without a fight. Just a little kink to work out at the beginning of the round.

                                      Thank you everyone, I am excited to try the suggestions. There is a jumper show this weekend with three peewee classes, but I'm not down to show two weekends in a row (yeah, I'm a wimp). I believe there is one next month a little further out - I'll look into it and play a little "trial and error" game with her. She's a sensitive gal but jumps her heart out. Annoying as it is, I know she's just excited so I can't be pissed. Just trying to make it safer for us both.

                                      Plus, that whole dance-dance crap won't be so funny if she has studs in and steps on herself.

                                      Thanks again everyone!

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Rnichols View Post
                                        Honestly, my first thought was just have her trot in through the in gate. I've seen people do it at shows. I mean, maybe it will make your problem worse, but maybe not? When you know you're about 2 out in warm up or something, just casually pick up your reins, maybe do another jump, get her supple at the trot, do transitions, do whatever to get her brain engaged and then when it's your turn just trot right on into the arena. Sometimes "forcing" them to relax has the exact opposite effect. Is she an OTTB?I find this with my mare, if I think "relax, DAMNIT!" then that's a surefire way to make her have a stick of dynamite up her butt. In our dressage warm up (our biggest struggle), I have to let her do lots of stretch trot work and strech a bunch at the canter before we can actually go to more collected work - if I try to make her walk too soon she just gets pissed.

                                        It's interesting she doesn't have that same reaction in the start box though, so there must be something related to the stadium ring and going in there. At one event that I go to a lot, the stadium warm up is in a dark, indoor crowded chaotic arena and then the show jump ring is beautiful and open and bright and all the horses always go "woahhh WHAT" at first LOL. So I wonder if it's just anxiety over the difference between warm up ring and the actually stadium ring?

                                        My first couple of shows I didn't even know you were supposed to formally acknowledge the stadium judge (oops LOL). After I learned, I always just nod to them - it's never been an issue.
                                        She's a wicked smart mare, honestly. Anxiety is her vice, movement is the cure, and any attempt at throttling that is liable to get a reaction. We have gotten 100% better, but have 100% more to go before I'd say she's ok. That said, I know she is who she is, and while I could skin her some days, I love her all the same.

                                        I don't think I force her to relax, though the idea is on my mind so I bet I'm doing stuff subconsc iously. I did install a "head down" cue to assist, but in situations like my OP, too much fiddling around and she's going to let you know where to shove it. It's best to be still, quiet, and direct, while letting her have a little leeway in how she expresses it. This past weekend was a little further than I wanted as far as her expression, so I want to politely and tactfully contain it or direct it, without putting myself in the hospital.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X