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  • Originally posted by arnikalm View Post

    As an older woman who was abused at the age of 4 and never spoke about it until my own children were grown, I'm sorry that neither of you were believed. I've worked with traumatized and sex trafficked girls and that is not an uncommon experience. ☹

    When I finally opened up about my experience, I found that my little sister had also been abused by the same neighbor. She told our mother who refused to believe her as well, as horrifying as that is. She struggles with that to this day. I was very open about the possibility of abuse with my children and luckily I was able to find a balance between caution and strength for them and they have become strong, independent adults, without our trauma. Here's hoping that society becomes more accepting of victims and less of perpetrators.
    Sometimes that feels as bad as the abuse. I'm sorry that happened to you both. I remember telling my mother finally when I was in my 40's and she still stuck up for her brother. I stewed on that for a few years and haven't spoken to my mother in 8-9 years. Her response exponentially was worse.
    "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

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    • Excellent post, Soaponarope. Predators need to be outed and punished.

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      • It's self-control, right? A simple understanding of that, how you can get yourself in trouble, and appropriateness. But still circles back to SELF- CONTROL. Male, female, and on and on.

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        • Originally posted by poltroon View Post
          The idea that only kids with irresponsible or inattentive parents are molested or raped is not only dead wrong, it's also a factor in why these crimes don't get reported.

          They can happen to ANYBODY. Just like anyone can have money stolen. Don't fool yourself into thinking you and your family are safe based upon your superior virtue.
          True -- let's not forget, there were many instances when the parents were IN THE ROOM when Nassar assaulted their daughters and they still didn't know it. https://www.npr.org/2018/11/20/669669746/the-parents

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          • Originally posted by Figment View Post
            It's self-control, right? A simple understanding of that, how you can get yourself in trouble, and appropriateness. But still circles back to SELF- CONTROL. Male, female, and on and on.
            Even the Rolling Stones sang "You can't always get what you want."

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            • deleted, wrong forum.

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              • Originally posted by alicen View Post

                Even the Rolling Stones sang "You can't always get what you want."
                Lol my horse’s name is I Don’t Get No

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                • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                  Just a note to say that we contacted Stubben about their sponsorship of River Chase Farm. They indicated that they had had multiple calls about it and had pulled out of the relationship.

                  I did note that the RC website still lists Stubben as a sponsor as of this afternoon, but they (RC) have pulled all mention of Tom Novarro's name from it. Hopefully, the other sponsors will re-think as well.
                  I have reached out to [a certain vet practice] myself to find out what their stance is on this. In 2018 they announced their participation in the SafeSport certification program; I don’t know how they can say they support SafeSport and encourage people to speak up, yet still sponsor Navarro/RCF. Maybe they don’t sponsor them anymore, but like Stubben, they are still listed on the RCF site as a sponsor. I would encourage others to contact [the Practice] as well.

                  We need to put pressure on businesses who sponsor a farm that is owned by or has a head trainer that is (or was) on the sex offender registry for sexual acts against a minor.

                  ETA- I am removing the vet practice’s name from my posts now that the sponsorship page is no longer listed on the website. I suspect that RCF has taken the page down for damage control, but I want to give the practice the benefit of the doubt and consider that perhaps they contacted RCF and requested to be removed; if that’s the case maybe between them and Stubben RCF decided to remove the page. Or, it could simply be that RCF is getting flak from sponsors over being contacted, and the page is being removed just to prevent further inquiries. Either way, I don’t think it’s fair to call out a practice when their association / “sponsorship” is no longer on the website, regardless of why it was taken down.
                  Last edited by AlterHalter2019; Aug. 13, 2019, 12:45 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                    I want to respond this post to explain myself. I understood what you have been saying. Having worked for and educated by attorneys who handle these cases and appellate cases all the way up to the SCOTUS is why I was rude. If ones only responses to these threads are akin to a legal exercise one sounds like Bonnie Nevin to me. I apologize but still think the legal backbends would have been better in its own thread.
                    You know, that assumption is very inappropriate. There were several posts asking for the exact information I provided (clarifying how such a claim could even happen). Not to mention dozens “getting it wrong” about the private club vs. constitutional due process right issue. I believe my posts are and were factual and realistic explanations of how such a case can be challenged in federal court, when SS doesn’t have an appeal right to the court system.

                    i am appalled to be compared to Bonnie Nevin, honestly, who clearly has an agenda/is defending the accused and seems to have a very loose understanding of the law. If you go back to the RG thread you will see how I posted about how awful her response was. Basically illiterate and inaccurate. I don’t believe you can say the same for my posts. GM convicted himself to SS in his book, which I said 50 pages ago and still believe.

                    having another thread is counterproductive as I have simply tried to inject some actual knowledge in this thread as people have really mangled the legal issues throughout. After many many pages of cringing I finally decided to explain how these cases often come up. I have tried to adopt a neutral, explanatory tone so anyone from any perspective can grow their knowledge without feeling attacked.

                    I have a law job that helps small family-owned business owners on a daily basis, and am not for hire outside of that if that makes you feel better. I cannot and would not take clients wishing to challenge SafeSport.

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                    • Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                      You know, that assumption is very inappropriate. There were several posts asking for the exact information I provided (clarifying how such a claim could even happen). Not to mention dozens “getting it wrong” about the private club vs. constitutional due process right issue. I believe my posts are and were factual and realistic explanations of how such a case can be challenged in federal court, when SS doesn’t have an appeal right to the court system.

                      i am appalled to be compared to Bonnie Nevin, honestly, who clearly has an agenda/is defending the accused and seems to have a very loose understanding of the law. If you go back to the RG thread you will see how I posted about how awful her response was. Basically illiterate and inaccurate. I don’t believe you can say the same for my posts. GM convicted himself to SS in his book, which I said 50 pages ago and still believe.

                      having another thread is counterproductive as I have simply tried to inject some actual knowledge in this thread as people have really mangled the legal issues throughout. After many many pages of cringing I finally decided to explain how these cases often come up. I have tried to adopt a neutral, explanatory tone so anyone from any perspective can grow their knowledge without feeling attacked.

                      I have a law job that helps small family-owned business owners on a daily basis, and am not for hire outside of that if that makes you feel better. I cannot and would not take clients wishing to challenge SafeSport.
                      Copy. My bad. But understand your law school hypothesizing makes you look like a sympathizer. And you legitimately don’t get it from a moral standpoint.

                      And you wanted to interject actual knowledge about what? Appeals? I get your a lawyer with experience arguing the Sherman act but I ask my friends who have more experience and morals and yeah they won’t goon record with those arguments nor would they argue that in court.

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                      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                        Copy. My bad. But understand your law school hypothesizing makes you look like a sympathizer. And you legitimately don’t get it from a moral standpoint.
                        No, I don’t think my helpful posts from a practitioner of the field, clarifying the applications of the law to this case and other SS cases, will be interpreted like that by people who are interested in accuracy.

                        If someone assumes that making neutral, factual posts is taking a position against their perspective, that is on them. Not me. Either side could do that here.

                        A neutral post should be read as just that. If not, that says more about the reader than the post.

                        And if you can’t see the clear agenda behind Bonnie Nevin’s posts, God help you. If you think those sounded neutral...I don’t know what to say. They had very little relation to the actual SafeSport regulations.

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                        • Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                          No, I don’t think my helpful posts from a practitioner of the field, clarifying the applications of the law to this case and other SS cases, will be interpreted like that by people who are interested in accuracy.

                          If someone assumes that making neutral, factual posts is taking a position against their perspective, that is on them. Not me. Either side could do that here.

                          A neutral post should be read as just that. If not, that says more about the reader than the post.

                          And if you can’t see the clear agenda behind Bonnie Nevin’s posts, God help you. If you think those sounded neutral...I don’t know what to say. They had very little relation to the actual SafeSport regulations.
                          I see the clear agenda with Bonnie and then I see y’all trying to exercise your legal minds on these threads like y’all don’t get enough work. Practitioner of what law in general or appeals?

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                          • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                            Copy. My bad. But understand your law school hypothesizing makes you look like a sympathizer.
                            You're reading things into posts that aren't there.

                            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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                            • Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post

                              You're reading things into posts that aren't there.
                              I’ll admit to that with having conversations with lawyers who do not flex with me. It’s a normal conversation. Not some wanna be law school exercise

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                              • Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                Does he own the farm or is the farm owner employing him?
                                It's owned by an Americanized middle-eastern family, as one of their "business ventures", under their company "The Dorgham Group" and the property is informally called "The D-Ranch". The owners are rather disconcerting as there's nearly a dozen suspicious "home businesses" registered at their home in Oakton, which has recently gone up for sale, and I'm not sure why they own a farm, but from what I've read many ME families are buying up farms along the East Coast for unknown reasons. Given the number and nature of businesses apparently associated with them, I wouldn't be surprised if it's for something you might not want to know about. The husband is a pretty blank slate character while the wife is a high-up exec in the TSA, though she's got no apparent work history before she appeared out of thin air to work there in a high-level position, so that's a bit disconcerting on it's own.
                                Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

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                                • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                  I see the clear agenda with Bonnie and then I see y’all trying to exercise your legal minds on these threads like y’all don’t get enough work.
                                  Really? You think I am I underemployed? Lolololol. You repeatedly have declined to ask me about my credentials, as I offered, as you didn’t think I was an attorney at all until several people who know me IRL assured you I was, and then you didn’t care to follow up.

                                  If you want to arrange a conference call between me with you and your mysterious friends who do criminal and antitrust appeals to discuss this case, I would be happy to do that, just out of the principle of the matter. Please PM, my schedule is pretty open Friday.

                                  Still I know you won’t, because who cares about being accurate when you can spend your time attacking people for trying to help others, instead of jumping on the outrage and attack at all costs bandwagon. Neutral posts have to be against you, I guess. I am glad to say others have PMed me in support of my efforts to inform neutrally, people who you have made afraid to post openly.

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                                  • Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                                    Really? You think I am I underemployed? Lolololol. You repeatedly have declined to ask me about my credentials, as I offered, as you didn’t think I was an attorney at all until several people who know me IRL assured you I was, and then you didn’t care to follow up.

                                    If you want to arrange a conference call between me with you and your mysterious friends who do criminal and antitrust appeals to discuss this case, I would be happy to do that, just out of the principle of the matter. Please PM, my schedule is pretty open Friday.

                                    Still I know you won’t, because who cares about being accurate when you can spend your time attacking people for trying to help others, instead of jumping on the outrage and attack at all costs bandwagon. Neutral posts have to be against you, I guess. I am glad to say others have PMed me in support of my efforts to inform neutrally, people who you have made afraid to post openly.
                                    Um wow. I just know I can have normal conversations with lawyers. Like when I bring up a legally charged subject they talk to me like a normal person and they do not flex their lawyer muscles. Glad people support you. I believe your credentials I just don’t get why every Safe Sport thread has to be about a law school exercise.

                                    And no I won’t because I’m booked on Friday’s. Honestly my job is such that I don’t know when I’m not booked.

                                    ETA: FYI I stand by my statements and don’t really need to validate them by saying “ people have PM’d me their support”. So I guess that’s our impasse.

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                                    • Because people are asking if there is legal recourse possibly?

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                                      • Originally posted by AlterHalter2019 View Post

                                        I have reached out to Total Equine Veterinary Associates myself to find out what their stance is on this. In 2018 they announced their participation in the SafeSport certification program; I don’t know how they can say they support SafeSport and encourage people to speak up, yet still sponsor Navarro/RCF. Maybe they don’t sponsor them anymore, but like Stubben, they are still listed on the RCF site as a sponsor. I would encourage others to contact Total Equine Veterinary Associates as well.

                                        Has anyone reached out to SmartPak and Saddlery liquidators? We need to put pressure on businesses who sponsor a farm that is owned by or has a head trainer that is (or was) on the sex offender registry for sexual acts against a minor.
                                        Navarro and Jay Joyce are buddies, so don't expect any change. Joyce is also the barn vet.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by LexInVA View Post

                                          It's owned by an Americanized middle-eastern family, as one of their "business ventures", under their company "The Dorgham Group" and the property is informally called "The D-Ranch". The owners are rather disconcerting as there's nearly a dozen suspicious "home businesses" registered at their home in Oakton, which has recently gone up for sale, and I'm not sure why they own a farm, but from what I've read many ME families are buying up farms along the East Coast for unknown reasons. Given the number and nature of businesses apparently associated with them, I wouldn't be surprised if it's for something you might not want to know about. The husband is a pretty blank slate character while the wife is a high-up exec in the TSA, though she's got no apparent work history before she appeared out of thin air to work there in a high-level position, so that's a bit disconcerting on it's own.
                                          Great. Thanks for the information though. Especially the heads up that there is much I probably don't want to know.

                                          I'm already freaked out by too much information on the Dressage forum. I can only handle so much in one day.

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