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George Morris on the SS list

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  • It's 5 days to file an appeal, isn't it? I assume that means 5 business days. By my count that would mean an appeal by GM would have to be filed Monday. Or could it already have been and just not made public? Does anyone know the answer?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
      It's 5 days to file an appeal, isn't it? I assume that means 5 business days. By my count that would mean an appeal by GM would have to be filed Monday. Or could it already have been and just not made public? Does anyone know the answer?
      In his statement he said he is in the process of disputing them.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mvp View Post

        And then you litigate that... in small claims court. If you were me, however, you would not let it come to that. Rather, you would show up at that barn as often as it took to make sure the contract was followed....before damage was done and then repaired via some belated legal remedy.

        Look, if this is not your particular hill to die on, don't go there. But disregarding the terms of a signed contract is one of the many things that should not become the norm in this industry. I don't think anyone should be making an argument to others that the best thing is to remove your horse and *allow disgruntled BOs to know that they can violate the terms of their own damn contracts*! It's just a bad precedent to set for this already unregulated business.

        It should not be true that a barn owner would screw over an animal because they are angry at a person. It should not fall to those who are paying for board to make sure that the cotton pickin' contract *devised by the BO* is followed. (I mean, if the BO wrote it, she had every opportunity to make sure her interests were represented.)

        But! The buck stops with the person who pays, it would appear. And so all of us paying into this industry end up having to "ride herd" on its worst actors. Sucks, but there it is: And so it falls to each of us to do that sometimes heavy lifting to make sure this is a business we want to be in.

        And I will say, too, I tend not to find or attract BOs who think screwing over a horse because of an anger issue is an option. So I really haven't walked a mile in the shoes of someone who finds themselves in this kind of exploitative or uneven business relationship.
        THEN YOU WOULD LITIGATE????? You seriously would put your small claims court challenge ahead of your horses? You would camp
        out at the barn 24:7? That is ludicrous and absurd. I’m nobody’s patsy as you infer. I stood up and gave my name. My hill trumps your ant mound.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jonathan Hart View Post

          SafeSport exists to prevent future abuse and misconduct, which I fully support, but I don’t know the case against GM furthers their mission. From my chair I see it ruining reputations, opening old wounds of families and victims, dividing the community, and harming the sport.

          Mr. Hart, thank you for your post.I am so, so sorry for your brother and your entire family. But I can't agree with your post for several reasons. I'll only go into one here.

          Many years ago, I was a crime reporter. Most of the stories I wrote about are lost to my memory but I will never forget one. A 77-year-old man enticed children into his apartment with money. I can't remember if he raped them himself - there was no blue pill back then - but he did teach them to assault each other while he watched.

          Sexual predators do not outgrow their tendencies. They will always be dangerous.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jonathan Hart View Post
            I am Michael Hart’s brother and have been expecting this day to come since I first read MidgeToo’s post on May 16, 2009 over on The Manure Pile. It was a post of a PM sent to MidgeToo by someone going by the name ‘abcdefghi’ that mentioned Michael as one of GM’s victims. It was long post I won’t share unless people want to read what I am referring to. In 2013 I made an angry reply as I just wanted my brother left out of the conversation. As everyone knows, he passed away in 1995 so I saw no reason to bring him into this 34 years after his time at Hunterdon and 14 years after his passing.

            This is is what bothers me most. Everyone knew about GM back then yet no one said or did anything about it. Now an 81 year old man is having his life’s work and legacy eradicated in some “Me Too” moment and, in the case of my family, getting calls from the New York Times and others asking us questions about our dead brother and his relationship with an accused pedophile.

            SafeSport exists to prevent future abuse and misconduct, which I fully support, but I don’t know the case against GM furthers their mission. From my chair I see it ruining reputations, opening old wounds of families and victims, dividing the community, and harming the sport.

            There is much more I could add but I’ve said enough. For the readers who knew my brother, you know
            I’m so sorry about what your family has gone through and continues to go through.

            But nothing can harm the sport more than to continue letting this kind of abuse happen. He was still in a position to harm young people. Younger riders were discussing abuse on Twitter. Not stuff that happened 40-50 years ago.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by prairiewind2 View Post

              Mr. Hart, thank you for your post.I am so, so sorry for your brother and your entire family. But I can't agree with your post for several reasons. I'll only go into one here.

              Many years ago, I was a crime reporter. Most of the stories I wrote about are lost to my memory but I will never forget one. A 77-year-old man enticed children into his apartment with money. I can't remember if he raped them himself - there was no blue pill back then - but he did teach them to assault each other while he watched.

              Sexual predators do not outgrow their tendencies. They will always be dangerous.
              Absolutely. We’re not even talking about a man in such ill health that he is getting his sick jollies masturbating in front of the nurses in the care home. We’re talking about a person who’s still hale and hearty enough to be giving clinics and riding horses.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by aristokat View Post

                It doesn't matter, 13 or 16. Safe Sport defines a minor as anyone under the age of 18. Age of consent isn't relevant.
                Going forward SafeSport sets the age of consent at 18 regardless of your state. If the age of consent in NJ in 1972 was 16, I don’t think they can go after you.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

                  Going forward SafeSport sets the age of consent at 18 regardless of your state. If the age of consent in NJ in 1972 was 16, I don’t think they can go after you.
                  Soresi was 13 when he met Morris.
                  "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu
                  Semantics

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pds View Post

                    The Morris name comes from money. His relative Billy Morris in Augusta, GA. (George Morris references his family roots in Augusta in his book) is/was somewhat of a media tycoon.

                    Billy Morris owns The Equine Journal, Western Horseman, Quarter Horse News, Barrel Horse News, National Barrel Horse Association, Western Retailer among many others.
                    Whoa I did not know GW is a member of the Augusta family. They had a newspaper monopoly decades ago which included the Savannah papers. Big scandal when one of them got involved with a married person and was sent back to Augusta in disgrace. Had to have been something really bad as Savannah natives have always been tolerant. Darn I was too young to ask my father about it back then.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post

                      Whoa I did not know GW is a member of the Augusta family. They had a newspaper monopoly decades ago which included the Savannah papers. Big scandal when one of them got involved with a married person and was sent back to Augusta in disgrace. Had to have been something really bad as Savannah natives have always been tolerant. Darn I was too young to ask my father about it back then.
                      If memory serves, George’s father Harry H. Morris Jr. was the brother of Billy Morris’ father.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 2bayboys View Post

                        Soresi was 13 when he met Morris.
                        That is partly my point; SafeSport does not apply their “AOC is 18 even if in your state the AOC it is 16” retroactively. So if SafeSport is going after him for something in 1968 (Soresi) it would be because the victim was under 16.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jonathan Hart View Post
                          SafeSport exists to prevent future abuse and misconduct, which I fully support, but I don’t know the case against GM furthers their mission. From my chair I see it ruining reputations, opening old wounds of families and victims, dividing the community, and harming the sport.
                          I'm so sorry for what your family has gone through. I understand reliving this must be extremely painful, especially when your brother is not here to defend himself.

                          But I struggle with the idea that you would rather allow an abuser to be idolized for eternity within a sport than for him to be held accountable for his actions. Had everyone continued to keep quiet about this issue, GM's legacy would have not died with the individual. We can't keep continuing to allow felonies to be normalized in our sport just because the perpetrator is talented.
                          Last edited by Texarkana; Aug. 11, 2019, 11:13 AM.
                          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oneequestrienne View Post

                            In his statement he said he is in the process of disputing them.
                            Ah, but that was a PR statement. He is disputing them via his minions on Facebook. But will he appeal?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                              It's 5 days to file an appeal, isn't it? I assume that means 5 business days. By my count that would mean an appeal by GM would have to be filed Monday. Or could it already have been and just not made public? Does anyone know the answer?
                              I don't know the answer for sure, but SafeSport makes almost nothing public except their decisions regarding suspensions, so I would assume the latter.

                              For others who have appealed, the only way the public has been made aware that the arbitration process was completed was by the removal of the "subject to appeal" verbiage from the website. For the rare cases where the appeal was successful, the individual's name was removed from the list entirely. But there was no press release, no fanfare during the process.
                              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                                It's 5 days to file an appeal, isn't it? I assume that means 5 business days. By my count that would mean an appeal by GM would have to be filed Monday. Or could it already have been and just not made public? Does anyone know the answer?
                                In most court systems, you get something like 30 calendar days to file an appeal. 5 days seems incredibly short to me.
                                "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                  As I understand it, and I could be wrong, they can’t have USEF sanctioned clinics. So if a banned member wants to hold a clinic at their farm or a private farm there’s nothing stopping them. The ban is only for things that are under control of the USEF. Ie if the USEF is renting or leasing a property and the person wants to hold a clinic on that property during the period of the lease.
                                  As I understand it, there is an aiding and abetting clause in which USEF members are not supposed to support a banned member.

                                  So as a USEF member it is a violation for me to ride in his clinic. I can’t imagine I would receive a lifetime ban for going do, though.

                                  I actually think the aiding and abetting clause is problematic, in part because I don’t see how it can be enforced. If you can’t or don’t enforce a rule, don’t have it on the books.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                    In most court systems, you get something like 30 calendar days to file an appeal. 5 days seems incredibly short to me.
                                    I may be wrong, but I suspect filing an appeal with SafeSport is a less convoluted process than filing one with the court system.

                                    If I've learned anything from the constant SafeSport debate this summer is that they operate pretty darn swiftly. Hearings for interim suspensions have occurred as quickly as within 24 hours of announcement. Some final decisions have been reached in as quickly as a week, especially when there is no evidence that a stiff penalty needs to be assigned. The more complicated and/or less time sensitive situations seem to take longer.

                                    GM's case allegedly took a year or more to investigate, but from the little bit of information made public by the press, his case involved allegations that occurred years in the past and had complications such as victims who had been convicted of other crimes or are no longer living. (I know there has been talk of incidences occurring more recently, threats against those who have come forward, etc., but I'm just sticking to what has been discussed in the press)

                                    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                    Comment


                                    • For those worried that this doesn’t prevent future abuse, think of the kids in abusive situations now who have been thinking, “No one will believe me”. This should give them hope that no matter how powerful the trainer, if they are abusing kids, SafeSport will investigate and ban.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                        In most court systems, you get something like 30 calendar days to file an appeal. 5 days seems incredibly short to me.
                                        I think it is 5 days to indicate you wish to exercise your right to appeal. It’s not like you need 30 days to write the brief.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

                                          As I understand it, there is an aiding and abetting clause in which USEF members are not supposed to support a banned member.

                                          So as a USEF member it is a violation for me to ride in his clinic. I can’t imagine I would receive a lifetime ban for going do, though.

                                          I actually think the aiding and abetting clause is problematic, in part because I don’t see how it can be enforced. If you can’t or don’t enforce a rule, don’t have it on the books.
                                          Seeing as how lifetime bans are reserved for the most serious of offenses, no, I don't believe violating the aiding & abetting rules would garner someone such a penalty.

                                          According to SafeSport's Response & Resolution Process, I suspect the NGB (USEF) would be tasked with handling cases involving aiding & abetting. Your guess is as good as mine as to what their reaction may be. However, USEF does have a responsibility to adhere to the SafeSport Code. Turning a blind eye to claims could land them in trouble.
                                          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                          Comment

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