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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by arnikalm View Post

    It is only in the US that sports are so overblown. In Europe, in eastern Asia as well as many other western countries, academics are what is focused on and sports are for fun and exercise. Sports are so important here due to lack of access to colleges by the poor. They see sports scholarships as their only chance. When you can't afford university and you don't have family money, parents push their children into sports, at the expense of their academics.
    no. go tell soccer fans that.

    horse sport is huge in europe, way bigger than here.

    your statement is inaccurate.
    Let me apologize in advance.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ohmyheck View Post

      However in my view the second group, consisting of well informed SafeSport supporters who may point out weaknesses in its execution and ways in which it can be strengthened, are integral to the long term viability of the organization. I say informed because of their background and knowledge, such as being well versed in the law or having firsthand experience with making a report. Or those on the ground with ideas of how it can made more workable in real life.
      I'm going to disagree, sort of, with one piece of this.

      Based on a lot of what I have read, here on the COTH forums and elsewhere, many attorneys and other people who live in the legal world have a tendency to frame all of this in the context of the legal system and seem to want to drag everything into the framework of judicial proceedings.

      SafeSport is, by design, an extrajudicial system. There are good reasons why this is so. I believe that it will be detrimental to SafeSport and its intended function if they implement changes suggested by those "well versed in the law" that change the fundamental extrajudicial nature of the organization.

      I'm not saying that SafeSport can't be improved. Based on what I've read, the organization has already made some changes in policy and procedure based on the experiences gained in the initial investigations. But many of the suggestions I've seen from people who say that they support SS but just want to "improve it" are suggestions that seem to be based on a lack of understanding of the very good reasons that SS has been set up the way it has.

      "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
      that's even remotely true."

      Homer Simpson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by flofleming View Post
        I asked this on the new Facebook group, but I’ll try here as well. Has Conrad spoken up? If not, his silence is deafening. He was the right age, right look, right time period. How was his stay with George? As an Olympic medalist, he needs to have the strength of little Simone Biles and say something, one way or the other.
        I understand the initial thinking behind this, however...

        We don’t know what we don’t know. Anyone who is being publicly silent right now, might have any number of reasons for being silent. I did see a comment somewhere on Facebook - can’t remember where though - in which someone pretty well connected confidently asserted that they KNEW the accusation was BS. And then went on to ask whether or not investigators had talked to Conrad, because this person was positive Conrad would tell them it was BS.

        It came off as very intimidating to me. Given other indications of an ongoing intimidation effort involving any number of people, their family members, etc... that’s pretty awful.

        Another comment I saw that was appalling, was someone snidely saying that they didn’t know how to state matters “delicately,” but wondered if Safe Sport would take into account whether or not a complainant was really “whoreish”... and pretty much “an open door”

        That comment made me want to weep. We now know that Soresi is a complainant. The time period referenced dates back to when he was 13. He was certainly an especially vulnerable kid, having lost a father at an even younger age. Calling any vulnerable minor like that “whoreish?” Presumably because they were abused by multiple people as a minor? That’s sick. Absolutely sick. And if one victim caught up in this thing was abused by multiple people within the same circle... odds are other victims were too.

        Another comment has been posted publicly on a certain person’s Facebook page who is part of the tip top of the sport...

        “Interesting to see, who doesn't have the guts or appreciation for what he did for them, to Stand Up for George.”

        and another individual replied to that comment with

        ”Maybe the obvious ones who dont comment are complicit in aiding this unjust process that is destroying good people before they've been heard in a real US court of law. 🤔”

        So let’s be careful and sensitive. There clearly are a lot of people ready to rip victims apart... one way or another. And it seems like a lot of really nasty intimidation tactics going on. and my guess is the victims are all well aware of this. I hope Safe Sport and USEF make good on prior statements that they won’t tolerate this sort of crap (intimidation of victims who speak up, or anyone who cooperates with investigations). Don’t allow people to be victimized twice. Because that’s what it amounts to.
        Last edited by Virginia Horse Mom; Aug. 9, 2019, 04:44 PM. Reason: Typos

        Comment


        • Originally posted by arnikalm View Post

          It is only in the US that sports are so overblown. In Europe, in eastern Asia as well as many other western countries, academics are what is focused on and sports are for fun and exercise. Sports are so important here due to lack of access to colleges by the poor. They see sports scholarships as their only chance. When you can't afford university and you don't have family money, parents push their children into sports, at the expense of their academics.
          So Eve Jobs, Jen Gates, Jessica Springsteen etc chose to pursue horse sports because they couldn't afford college? I don't think so.

          I think a lot of what draws kids to horse sports is the horse. A lot of what draws parents to big time HJ stuff is prestige, status, money, lifestyle, and rubbing elbows with other folks in the same socio-economic stratosphere. A lot of people on the inside of that world have scratched and clawed their way to the innermost circle and are pretty comfy there. They want to stay there. They want their world to continue to be about who they know and who they can do a deal with and not acknowledge what they may have done to get there. It is much more about lifestyle than sport.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by arnikalm View Post

            It is only in the US that sports are so overblown. In Europe, in eastern Asia as well as many other western countries, academics are what is focused on and sports are for fun and exercise. Sports are so important here due to lack of access to colleges by the poor. They see sports scholarships as their only chance. When you can't afford university and you don't have family money, parents push their children into sports, at the expense of their academics.
            There is a lot of misinformation in that post.

            For example, Europe may not have school sports, but they have club sports and youth academies that produce the same results and have the same impacts. Here's a snip from a newspaper article that turned up in a simple Google search of "Europe school sports."

            Wild grew up near Stuttgart, Germany, and as a 10-year-old started to show a prowess for scoring goals. Wild played for his local team in Leonberg until a scout from Mainz – a club in Germany’s top professional league, the Bundesliga – lured him away.

            At the age of 15, he moved 90 miles from his family and friends and joined the Mainz youth academy. He lived in a big house with his teammates where his days were regimented between training and schoolwork.

            “We’d get up early in the morning to train for a couple of hours, then we went to school,” Wild said. “In the afternoon, we’d be back on the training field or in the gym to work out. Then dinner, studies and go to bed.”

            Some of the top players were paid by the club to play for the academy, but most players like Wild received free room and board and access to a local school for their education.

            “It was such a professional environment,” Wild said. “You are basically a professional athlete when you are 14, 15 years old. That’s the way they treat you and that’s what they expect from you.”
            I don't see how that's better than the US system with school sports.

            I'm also not sure what any of this has to do with equestrian sports, which aren't really school sports in the traditional sense.
            "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
            that's even remotely true."

            Homer Simpson

            Comment


            • Talk about memories...had several male friends in my teens and early 20s.. circa 1965 to 75 who were in the closet and conflicted. I never cared but they had a terrible time with it. One was a very talented actor accepted into USC theatrical program, did some auditions and bit parts here and there working to build contacts.. Something happened, something he never shared. Was not the same. Killed himself at 19.

              The other had a celebrity mother who was known ( and contractually required) to be free from any hint of scandle. To this day if I google Mom, her bio says she had a son still living. No mention of his younger brother, my friend who committed suicide at 30.

              Also had a straight male friend who was moleted by a much older male celebrity in his early 20s.. He was never the same and had problems. Nobody believed him or said he was a queer and asked for it,

              So, yeah, I know why they did not want to speak up.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


              • Anyone who is a current or former business partner or romantic partner of GM is likely having a very very tough time right now regardless of their role in the investigation. They aren't obligated to indulge our curiosity. Let them be. They will talk, or not, when they have something to say.
                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                Comment


                • I can’t seem to find it on my phone could you repost the fb group that’s the opposite of the I stand with a sexual predator one.

                  Comment


                  • It’s kind of unfortunate timing, or not. He named all the names in Unrelenting. *I couldn’t actually get through it. This just occurred to me..
                    That book always seemed like it was written in a rush, aka pretty poorly. I was surprised while reading it that even a ghost writer would pen such a thing. I wonder if it’s a coincidence that it came out two years ago or if he was telling all those people, hey, I got your number.

                    Comment


                    • Is there any truth to the story about him making a student roll in the dirt, or is that fictitious?
                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                      Comment


                      • I am continually shocked by the number of people who think the 5% of false allegations are more important than the 95% that are true.
                        *****
                        You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                        Comment


                        • Another comment from Sarah Maslin Nir:

                          "It’s really something. As if the Federation would ban its biggest star on rumor and innuendo! Safe Sport conducted a huge investigation and he got the strongest ban possible, they knew what he did, well beyond even what my reporting could reveal. SafeSport can let accusers be Anonymous, the New York Times can’t. Some victims told me what happened, and that they wanted to speak to me but were afraid to do so on the record. With this cruel mob response, I see why."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Room for a Pony View Post
                            Another comment from Sarah Maslin Nir:

                            "It’s really something. As if the Federation would ban its biggest star on rumor and innuendo! Safe Sport conducted a huge investigation and he got the strongest ban possible, they knew what he did, well beyond even what my reporting could reveal. SafeSport can let accusers be Anonymous, the New York Times can’t. Some victims told me what happened, and that they wanted to speak to me but were afraid to do so on the record. With this cruel mob response, I see why."
                            Where was this posted originally? I follow her on Twitter but obviously the comments there are much shorter (since that's how Twitter works lol). Is this on Facebook?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 541hunter View Post

                              Where was this posted originally? I follow her on Twitter but obviously the comments there are much shorter (since that's how Twitter works lol). Is this on Facebook?
                              She has a personal facebook page. It was in response to a comment about her article.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ClerkofCourts View Post
                                It’s kind of unfortunate timing, or not. He named all the names in Unrelenting. *I couldn’t actually get through it. This just occurred to me..
                                That book always seemed like it was written in a rush, aka pretty poorly. I was surprised while reading it that even a ghost writer would pen such a thing. I wonder if it’s a coincidence that it came out two years ago or if he was telling all those people, hey, I got your number.
                                For me, I see someone who thought that if they aired their own dirty laundry, with their spin on it, it would all be OK.

                                **See- this is just me being me** and the rest of the world is supposed to accept the fact that he IS GHM, and therefore, the lines should be a little more blurred. But, they aren't. They are black and white for him, as well.
                                When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • Room for a Pony Thanks!!

                                  Comment


                                  • Here is an article from earlier this year about Nir. Very interesting in terms of how she investigated JW. That's how you do journalism...she's the real deal (which is pretty unusual nowadays).

                                    My two vocations rarely intersected — until I came across a story about Jimmy A. Williams, a trainer who coached many young female riders to Olympic fame, while sexually abusing them.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                      Is there any truth to the story about him making a student roll in the dirt, or is that fictitious?
                                      Unrelenting has short sections by people who knew Morris, but which aren't written in Morris' own voice. On page 29 of the hardcover Harriet Kennaby, who describes herself as one of George's oldest friends writes:

                                      "I remember a clinic where some girls were wearing Christmas sweaters and one girl in particular was talking to her friend and showing off her sweater and not paying attention to George as he was talking. He told her to get off the horse and made her roll in the dirt in the ring for a few minutes. Then he told her to get back on, because now she'd have nothing to talk about!"

                                      So no, it's not something that personally happened to someone posting in this thread or something George has mentioned himself, but it is in Unrelenting. Softcover or Kindle will have a different page number, but it's in the 1950s section.
                                      Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                                      Comment


                                      • GHM also proudly tells a pretty horrific story in the book about setting up (I think?) Melanie Smith Taylor to flip a horse in an exercise because he thought she was too cocky.

                                        Amazing to me how many of my horse circle are talking about what a fantastic horseman he is.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by 541hunter View Post
                                          GHM also proudly tells a pretty horrific story in the book about setting (I think?) Melanie Smith Taylor to flip a horse in an exercise because he thought she was too cocky.

                                          Amazing to me how many of my horse circle are talking about what a fantastic horseman he is.
                                          I must have gave up on it before I got to that story. What a travesty.

                                          Comment

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