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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post

    Charged means that it isn't cut and dry what happened. It's possible charges could be dropped. Or not dropped.

    There were several reports that Michael was also injured, and that the Fiance had a knife, saying that there was an argument, the fiance attacked Michael with a knife and then Michael shot Lauren.
    Charged means that there is enough incriminating evidence for a judge or a magistrate to issue warrants for attempted murder and for the prosecuting attorney in that jurisdiction to agree that he/she will prosecute the case.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu
    Semantics

    Comment


    • I just read that article about the charges against GM. What it describes is awful.

      Anybody who would write in their memoir that they had sex with 10,000 people (and counting!) is exactly the type of asshole who would deny that there is any problem turning boys into sex slaves.

      I suspect that many people are getting behind GM because their livelihoods depend on him sending them horses, clients, etc. - I expect he sends a lot of business many people's way, people who, like so many in the horse world, look like they are doing very fine but in fact are three meals away from bankruptcy.

      Comment


      • I love how everyone is a law enforcement expert because of this attempted murder. I’m a total true crime junkie, I listen to podcasts all day long and read true crime forums etc.

        Charges aren’t made without serious evidence supporting the charge. They don’t throw charges out willy nilly because they only get one chance to do it right and not make mistakes for their case. Obviously we don’t know many details to the story but we have to trust that LE did a thorough investigation today and have used their expertise to lay the appropriate charges.

        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FiSk123 View Post

          I completely understand your reaction. However, do keep in mind that this article only digs into cases in which the accusers have agreed to go public & that the last few days have been absolutely terrifying for the claimants and witnesses. Let's just say that "allegedly" there are more survivors who spoke to SafeSport and "allegedly" the accusations span over several decades.
          Thank you for your perspective. I can't imagine how the claimants and witnesses are coping with the landslide of support for George Morris. Many of those people never even met him, but just assume that because he's revered he could do no wrong.
          Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
          EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
            I love how everyone is a law enforcement expert because of this attempted murder. I’m a total true crime junkie, I listen to podcasts all day long and read true crime forums etc.

            Charges aren’t made without serious evidence supporting the charge. They don’t throw charges out willy nilly because they only get one chance to do it right and not make mistakes for their case. Obviously we don’t know many details to the story but we have to trust that LE did a thorough investigation today and have used their expertise to lay the appropriate charges.
            yeah but can you guarantee those investigating were qualified?
            Let me apologize in advance.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Irish Ei's View Post


              Then please read the article for yourself.
              What difference does age make to you ??

              You are confusing USEF junior eligibility age with SS junior age, it seems

              According to the SS website terminology page a minor is anyone under the age of 18.
              USEF Junior age does not apply.
              No need to get snippy. I was just pointing out that not all juniors are minors and giving a specific age would be better. What’s it to you whether I’d like to know their age? To me, there is a difference between thirteen and 17, for instance. Initially, everyone heard Gage’s victims were 17 and he was 23. Later we learn that the victims were 13 and 14, and Gage was late 20’s early 30’s. It matters.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by floppyammy View Post

                Soooo the NYT article, which specifies three minors he is said to have had sexual relations with, whose lives were consequently ruined by drug addiction, felony criminal activity and untimely death was "underwhelming" to you?

                Sorry it wasn't salacious enough for your taste.

                I feel badly for those young men, whom, if allegations are to be believed, had their lives ruined by this man.
                Well, for one thing, it is not entirely clear that the NYT alleges conduct that was illegal. Two of the victims indicated the sexual conduct began when they were 16. Even today, the age of consent in New Jersey is 16. The third victim says it began when he was a "teenager," which again leaves it unclear whether the conduct was illegal. In the 1970's, some states had even younger ages of consent (Hawaii was 14 until 2001).

                Of course, in the 1970's, sodomy was illegal in most places... but I doubt SS wants to hang their hat on the homophobia that ruled the day.

                We don't know if SS has more evidence than what is recounted in the NYT. Sounds like "Fisk" may have inside knowledge that they do... Personally, I would be a lot more comfortable banning someone for conduct that continued at least into this century so you have more confidence they didn't reform or rehabilitate. (Not that there is any evidence GM ever repented for any conduct...)

                For anyone on this board who says "it doesn't matter whether the conduct was illegal back in the day," I urge you to consider the following thought experiment. Suppose in the future, armed with the knowledge of how slow young people's prefrontal cortexes develop, the age of consent is raised to 21. For those of you who slept with someone under the age of 21: would you think it was okay for you to be retroactively banned from the organization that governs your profession? Or would you say, "Hey, that's not fair. When I went to college it was okay for a 21-year old junior to have a relationship with an 18 year old freshman..."

                I am no defender of GM, but there is no doubt that SS could raise interesting and thorny issues, especially if it is challenged in court. All we can do is wait and see...

                Comment


                • no definitely middle aged trainers screwing sixteen year olds should be shown the door also.

                  because they're professionals in positions of power and these are children.
                  Let me apologize in advance.

                  Comment


                  • Safe sports is a code of conduct for a club and an industry. if you want to roll the dice on statutory rape, that's your choice, but you can't be in the club.
                    Let me apologize in advance.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                      Well, for one thing, it is not entirely clear that the NYT alleges conduct that was illegal. Two of the victims indicated the sexual conduct began when they were 16. Even today, the age of consent in New Jersey is 16. The third victim says it began when he was a "teenager," which again leaves it unclear whether the conduct was illegal. In the 1970's, some states had even younger ages of consent (Hawaii was 14 until 2001).

                      Of course, in the 1970's, sodomy was illegal in most places... but I doubt SS wants to hang their hat on the homophobia that ruled the day.

                      We don't know if SS has more evidence than what is recounted in the NYT. Sounds like "Fisk" may have inside knowledge that they do... Personally, I would be a lot more comfortable banning someone for conduct that continued at least into this century so you have more confidence they didn't reform or rehabilitate. (Not that there is any evidence GM ever repented for any conduct...)

                      For anyone on this board who says "it doesn't matter whether the conduct was illegal back in the day," I urge you to consider the following thought experiment. Suppose in the future, armed with the knowledge of how slow young people's prefrontal cortexes develop, the age of consent is raised to 21. For those of you who slept with someone under the age of 21: would you think it was okay for you to be retroactively banned from the organization that governs your profession? Or would you say, "Hey, that's not fair. When I went to college it was okay for a 21-year old junior to have a relationship with an 18 year old freshman..."

                      I am no defender of GM, but there is no doubt that SS could raise interesting and thorny issues, especially if it is challenged in court. All we can do is wait and see...
                      While the age of consent in NJ is 16, if the victim is less than 18 and the partner has a position of authority over them (or is a relative or guardian), then the partner can be prosecuted. It doesn't specify if there is a difference between hetero and homosexual contact. (source - (sorry) Wikipedia)
                      Last edited by Peggy; Aug. 8, 2019, 11:42 PM.
                      The Evil Chem Prof

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                        The messenger is a convicted child molester
                        ???
                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                        Comment


                        • Although several comments state that he will continue to give clinics/lessons etc. if you read the SS rules, any USEA member caught participating will be sanctioned/banned for life as well = guilty by association.....which opens up another whole can of worms where people can report people who continue to do business with the banned people.(Can anyone say witch hunt?) I feel if the SS committee feels there is credible evidence they should report this to the civil authorities as all the offenses are illegal to begin with, and if, or after they are convicted in a court of law, sentenced etc. then they should be banned from the sport. This pseudo SafeSport investigation/conviction process is a mockery - they can declare someone a sexual predator but other than being ejected from a sport, nothing punitive happens to them? Outrageous! They can go anywhere, live anywhere & no one knows, sort of makes the national registry of pedophiles a joke as it will be missing some people....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ClassicalStarGazer View Post
                            Although several comments state that he will continue to give clinics/lessons etc. if you read the SS rules, any USEA member caught participating will be sanctioned/banned for life as well = guilty by association.....which opens up another whole can of worms where people can report people who continue to do business with the banned people.(Can anyone say witch hunt?) I feel if the SS committee feels there is credible evidence they should report this to the civil authorities as all the offenses are illegal to begin with, and if, or after they are convicted in a court of law, sentenced etc. then they should be banned from the sport. This pseudo SafeSport investigation/conviction process is a mockery - they can declare someone a sexual predator but other than being ejected from a sport, nothing punitive happens to them? Outrageous! They can go anywhere, live anywhere & no one knows, sort of makes the national registry of pedophiles a joke as it will be missing some people....
                            No clinics and, since George Morris, is an FEI member and there is reciprocity between USEF and FEI, no international clinics either. At least I read that someplace. Not sure I remember where. As someone noted upthread, it's been a whacky week.
                            The Evil Chem Prof

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ClassicalStarGazer View Post
                              Although several comments state that he will continue to give clinics/lessons etc. if you read the SS rules, any USEA member caught participating will be sanctioned/banned for life as well = guilty by association.....which opens up another whole can of worms where people can report people who continue to do business with the banned people.(Can anyone say witch hunt?) I feel if the SS committee feels there is credible evidence they should report this to the civil authorities as all the offenses are illegal to begin with, and if, or after they are convicted in a court of law, sentenced etc. then they should be banned from the sport. This pseudo SafeSport investigation/conviction process is a mockery - they can declare someone a sexual predator but other than being ejected from a sport, nothing punitive happens to them? Outrageous! They can go anywhere, live anywhere & no one knows, sort of makes the national registry of pedophiles a joke as it will be missing some people....
                              I hate it when a new kid comes to ride and they talk big eq, but clearly ride in the pre childrens.
                              *****
                              You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                              Comment


                              • I am addressing access to NYT article. If you register, you can get 10 articles free per month, per browser. I have 4.

                                Per browser is operative phrase.
                                Have you ever noticed that all squirrels behave like it's their first day being a squirrel?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Peggy View Post

                                  While the age of consent in NJ is 16, if the victim is less than 18 and the partner has a position of authority over them (or is a relative or guardian), then the partner can be prosecuted. It doesn't specify if there is a difference between hetero and homosexual contact. (source - (sorry) Wikipedia)
                                  I'm sorry, I think you have misunderstood the point I was making. It isn't a question of what is illegal now; it is a question of what was illegal in the 1970's. And the follow-up question is: if SS bans someone based on conduct that was legal at the time it occurred, will that be upheld in a court of law (assuming someone challenges it).

                                  Of course, this may all be moot if "Fisk" is correct that SS is basing the sanction on more recent conduct and/or conduct that was clearly illegal. We will just have to wait and see.

                                  Comment


                                  • [QUOTE=ladyj79;n10448948]Judy, I appreciate everything you have brought to this discussion over the last year, but the process has happened.

                                    Wait because I took lessons from George is no more appropriate than wait because George didn't molest my handsome husband who was an adult."

                                    I frankly don’t care if you appreciate my participation. Read for comprehension and stop inserting your interpretation. I am simply willing to wait for the appeal FOR ANY ONE ACCUSED. There is a process for a reason. Let’s let it happen.

                                    Your “ Wait....” comment is insulting in the extreme. How dare you. .


                                    Last edited by fair judy; Aug. 9, 2019, 10:06 AM. Reason: edited to take my comment to Ladyj79 out of italics.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                                      I'm sorry, I think you have misunderstood the point I was making. It isn't a question of what is illegal now; it is a question of what was illegal in the 1970's. And the follow-up question is: if SS bans someone based on conduct that was legal at the time it occurred, will that be upheld in a court of law (assuming someone challenges it).

                                      Of course, this may all be moot if "Fisk" is correct that SS is basing the sanction on more recent conduct and/or conduct that was clearly illegal. We will just have to wait and see.
                                      I was addressing your first paragraph. My point was that, while the age of consent is, and maybe was,16, there are circumstances that could effectively make it 18.
                                      The Evil Chem Prof

                                      Comment


                                      • Well, we know that Jonathan Soresi was 13 when he went to live with GM. That's underage for sexual activity by anyone's standards--except that it's entirely possible that age of consent laws only applied to females back then; that was certainly true in many states. If homosexual sex or unnatural sex sodomy were illegal back then, sexual activity would have been illegal no matter what age the parties were.

                                        It seems to me that if one is going to rely on the laws back then, all of the laws prohibiting behaviour have to be taken into account, and that means that the sex in question was very likely illegal no matter what laws you want to apply.

                                        Remember that state laws against "Unnatural sex" were held to be legal by the US Supreme Court as recently as 2007.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by ClassicalStarGazer View Post
                                          Although several comments state that he will continue to give clinics/lessons etc. if you read the SS rules, any USEA member caught participating will be sanctioned/banned for life as well = guilty by association.....which opens up another whole can of worms where people can report people who continue to do business with the banned people.(Can anyone say witch hunt?) I feel if the SS committee feels there is credible evidence they should report this to the civil authorities as all the offenses are illegal to begin with, and if, or after they are convicted in a court of law, sentenced etc. then they should be banned from the sport. This pseudo SafeSport investigation/conviction process is a mockery - they can declare someone a sexual predator but other than being ejected from a sport, nothing punitive happens to them? Outrageous! They can go anywhere, live anywhere & no one knows, sort of makes the national registry of pedophiles a joke as it will be missing some people....
                                          THIS^ The obvious solution for those who wish to continue to exercise their right of free association is to drop their USEF membership and fill out recognized show entries paying the rat-bite "non-member fees." I would urge the same for anyone who'd like to go back to running their business normally without the paranoid overlook of the SS Stasi, which has no jurisdiction over United States interstate commerce whatsoever.

                                          Has anyone even considered what "message" these SS "rules" send to young people? You can't trust ANY adult. Everyone is a predator. You can never think you're safe, anywhere or with anyone, male or female. Never relax. Never confide. Never let anyone touch you for any reason. All men are rapists. Everyone's a victim and helpless. You still need a babysitter at 17, with mommie cc'd on every text. You're not allowed to exchange messages with younger friends because YOU might be accused!

                                          Does that sound like a recipe for resilient mental health in young adulthood? This is triple overkill, people!

                                          Comment

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