Sport Horse Spotlight

Vitalis_img_4461skawx LL_Fotos

Real Estate Spotlight

Birman1

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

George Morris on the SS list

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

    Fifty years ago (literally) my sister and I were showing our ponies at North Shore. We were schooling on the outside course the day before the show. Schooling was going on in a small jumper ring right next to us. George (who was just beginning to be George at the time) was working with a teenage girl I knew. She was 16. He repeatedly, and in a very loud voice, called her a c**t. My father who was there with us was shocked and outraged.

    He marched over to the show office and demanded that GM be removed from the showgrounds. The officials told him that wasn't possible. To try to placate him, they said they would make George come to the office and apologize to him. My father said, "I don't want him to apologize to me. He needs to apologize to that poor girl." Which GM was duly made to do.

    Did anything about his behavior change after that? Nope. If anything it only got worse. Fifty years...
    That is why I am a bit sickened by this part of GM's statement:

    Any allegations that suggest I have acted in ways that are harmful to any individual, the broader equestrian community, and sport that I love dearly are false and hurtful.
    We all know he has acted repeatedly and publicly in ways that have been harmful to individuals. It's been written on this board as testimony from public events for literally two decades, and known before that. People have recounted those stories over and over, and in ways that certainly got back to him.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment


    • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

      USEF has over 100,000 members. There are 2,400 on the closed “I stand with George” page and about the same number signed a pledge to not renew their USEF membership if “substantial reform” of SafeSport was not in place by Sept 30.

      Are they sufficiently delusional to think they represent the majority of USEF members?
      I'm not currently a USEF member, but I will join just to spite the 2,400 in that group

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CPL713 View Post

        I'm not currently a USEF member, but I will join just to spite the 2,400 in that group
        I just looked. It's up to 3.5k now. I'm sure I have quite a few friends in there too.
        Fils Du Reverdy (Revy)- 1993 Selle Francais Gelding
        My equine soulmate
        Mischief Managed (Tully)- JC Priceless Jewel 2002 TB Gelding

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post

          I'm not because:

          1. Based on everything I've learned about the SafeSport process, plus the statistics showing the very small percentage of cases that actually lead to a significant sanction, I have faith in the process and confidence that any sanctions that are imposed are well deserved.

          2. Everything I've read about the appeals process makes me doubt the "justice" of an overturned sanction. For example, remember the guy whose appeal was granted because none of the witness would testify before the arbitrators? The witnesses were involved in a civil suit against the coach and their attorney advised them to not testify at the appeal. Several other cases were discussed on the Rob Gage thread where the individual may have won his appeal, but the appeal did nothing to convince me that the individual had not done what he was accused of doing.



          Point 1: See above. I disagree that a successful appeal necessarily means that the claims weren't justified.

          Point 2: A SS suspension may cause embarrassment and lead some people to avoid the individual, but I think we have ample evidence that people can still have successful equestrian careers even with lifetime bans from USEF. So I doubt that a brief SS suspension that was subsequently overturned is going to have any lasting impacts on a person's career.
          <<STATING THIS AS A GENERAL DISCUSSION POINT, NOT AS A SS HATER OR GM SUPPORTER>>

          Here is my issue with comments like the above against the appeals process... If "we're" asking everyone in the NGOs and general sport community to accept SS's findings as thorough, fair, and ultimately our NGO's law, then we must accept that their appeals process is equally thorough, fair, and ultimately NGO law.

          We can't pick and choose saying that the process is beyond reproach in its initial investigators process and ruling as long as the accused is held at bay, but will probably fall apart when challenged. That makes little sense. If the case is that strong, it should stick. If the witness statements were strong enough the first time around, shouldn't they hold in the second? I get that people may have second thoughts and back out, but shouldn't the initial evidence presented stand?

          If we have faith in the system and its process, giving it the power to permanently remove people from our sport based solely on the system's ruling, then we should maintain that faith throughout.

          I do trust that the system's process is beneficial in removing scum from our sport, including the likely very guilty GM. The stories have been out there and we've all seen his comments either in print or person.

          However, I've also read about too many cases where later evidence exonerated the accused. If we trust the system then we should, you know, trust the system.
          "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RatWrangler View Post

            This is pretty rich considering GM claims to have had sex with 10,000 people
            Where did this come from? I've read it several times, but no one has posted the source. That would be having sex with a different person every day for over 27 years. Even if it was every other day, that'd take 55 years! How do you find the time? How do you meet all those people much less get them into bed??? If you started at age 20, you'd be 75 to hit 10,000 averaging 3.5 partners a week. What am I missing here?
            "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

              Where did this come from? I've read it several times, but no one has posted the source. That would be having sex with a different person every day for over 27 years. Even if it was every other day, that'd take 55 years! How do you find the time? How do you meet all those people much less get them into bed??? If you started at age 20, you'd be 75 to hit 10,000 averaging 3.5 partners a week. What am I missing here?
              It came from his book. And as someone else said earlier.... if you get more creative in terms of considering situations involving multiple partners simultaneously... the numbers become slightly more possible. Though still implausible.

              I find the mentality of anyone who makes such a claim BIZARRE. There is no good explanation. Malignant narcissism.

              Comment


              • Isn’t it ironic that Mason Phelp’s PR company is handling George? The grapevine hearsay has worse stories about Mason. Even George recounts in his book how Mason dosed him with acid, but that’s minor compared to other gossip out there. You do wonder who’s next. I shouldn’t be enjoying this, but I kind of am, to be honest.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                  Where did this come from? I've read it several times, but no one has posted the source. That would be having sex with a different person every day for over 27 years. Even if it was every other day, that'd take 55 years! How do you find the time? How do you meet all those people much less get them into bed??? If you started at age 20, you'd be 75 to hit 10,000 averaging 3.5 partners a week. What am I missing here?
                  His book, Unrelenting.
                  "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Raine View Post

                    It occurs to me that GM was not simply the “Father of the sport”, but likely the father of a lot of the worst aspects of our sport’s CULTURE. Hard to believe that others weren’t emboldened by observing his behaviors over the years...and knowing that people felt powerless and scared to speak up.
                    Trainer of trainers.

                    As was Jimmy Williams.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                      Where did this come from? I've read it several times, but no one has posted the source. That would be having sex with a different person every day for over 27 years. Even if it was every other day, that'd take 55 years! How do you find the time? How do you meet all those people much less get them into bed??? If you started at age 20, you'd be 75 to hit 10,000 averaging 3.5 partners a week. What am I missing here?
                      Orgies? (oops I see VGH already covered it)

                      but no I agree it sounds outrageous
                      One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
                      William Shakespeare

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by flofleming View Post
                        Isn’t it ironic that Mason Phelp’s PR company is handling George? The grapevine hearsay has worse stories about Mason. Even George recounts in his book how Mason dosed him with acid, but that’s minor compared to other gossip out there. You do wonder who’s next. I shouldn’t be enjoying this, but I kind of am, to be honest.
                        Ahhhh - and there we go, another Jimmy Williams pupil. Quite a trainer of young people.

                        So so sick.

                        Comment


                        • Is anyone in the FB group to monitor and let us know of anything upcoming that we might want to know about? Crowdfunding, lawsuits, protests etc? Who to avoid....
                          Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                            It came from his book. And as someone else said earlier.... if you get more creative in terms of considering situations involving multiple partners simultaneously... the numbers become slightly more possible. Though still implausible.

                            I find the mentality of anyone who makes such a claim BIZARRE. There is no good explanation. Malignant narcissism.
                            If you factor in bathhouses and other venues for anonymous activity, it’s possible.
                            A helmet saved my life.

                            2017 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!

                            Comment


                            • Diane Carney is asking people on Facebook to contact the White House. What would the executive branch do? Comes off as quite desperate to me. She has had GHM in for clinics for years.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Room for a Pony View Post
                                Diane Carney is asking people on Facebook to contact the White House. What would the executive branch do? Comes off as quite desperate to me. She has had GHM in for clinics for years.
                                Lol the current administration signed the SS legislation into law. Goodness.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by 541hunter View Post
                                  Hey FiSk123 I know you were putting together a spreadsheet/list of all the permanent ineligibility sanctions from Safe Sport's website...have you completed that yet? I was trying to verify some of your earlier posts on the RG thread that were reposted here (namely, the 292 total bans vs. 32 non-criminal disposition, and the details of those 32) but I'm having a bit of trouble with the Safe Sport website, since you can't just browse through all sanctions. I'd be happy to buckle down and comb through each sport individually but I figured if you'd done the work already and had a list of names I could use that as a jumping off point for verification.

                                  edit Virginia Horse Mom it was me that asked where you heard about the investigation timeline! I just want to clarify that I didn't ask because I don't believe it; I just like to be able to point to a good source to back up any claims I might make in a discussion. Can you tell I went to journalism school?
                                  I have! It's been done since early July - my apologies for not posting it earlier. Does anyone know if I can attach an excel sheet here? If not, I could also just copy and paste each of the entries. I also need to update it with a few names (July 10-onwards).

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Room for a Pony View Post
                                    Diane Carney is asking people on Facebook to contact the White House. What would the executive branch do? Comes off as quite desperate to me. She has had GHM in for clinics for years.
                                    Not a political commentary as far as left vs right.

                                    However:

                                    Going to someone who thinks "Grab them by theirs p^$$Y'" is locker room talk is the height of.................. someone fill in the blank for me. I am losing IQ points reading some of the posts.
                                    Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Standard Bread View Post

                                      The USEF is a corporation. They don't need a legal judgement to deplatform someone if they so choose.
                                      That's true, however the point many are making (Canadian Eric Lamaze included) is the lengthy time span. Although the timing of complaints have been debated and discussed here, it remains a concern for lots of people.

                                      Take SS out of the picture for a moment, and focus just on USEF as a sports corporation with bylaws, and membership rules. Would USEF ban a member for doping, cheating, horse abuse, etc that happened 50 years ago, yet was only recently alleged ? Probably not, because USEF has protest rules that have a time frame for a complaint. However, if there's a criminal conviction, USEF can move swiftly and take action on their own.

                                      When so many members - some very accomplished and respected - of a large organization push back against their organization's mandated partnership with a government entity that has the power to override the organization's own rules, and a commonly accepted standard of judicial due process, their concerns are worth listening to. No member voted to have USEF join SS, yet the membership is quickly dividing.

                                      Last edited by Mardi; Aug. 7, 2019, 01:02 PM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by FiSk123 View Post

                                        I have! It's been done since early July - my apologies for not posting it earlier. Does anyone know if I can attach an excel sheet here? If not, I could also just copy and paste each of the entries. I also need to update it with a few names (July 10-onwards).
                                        Could you upload it to Google Sheets? It's free and you can make it so anyone who has the link can view, but not edit.

                                        On an unrelated note, I know one of the main (and IMO, most valid) complaints about Safe Sport's bans is the lack of transparency around the investigative process. One of my friends who's an attorney posted something that got me thinking. (I know she reads this board so feel free to jump in if I'm mischaracterizing your statement—I couldn't remember whether you said it here or on Facebook so I couldn't refresh my memory.) She talked about how the process of disbarment for things like sexual misconduct is more transparent and maps closer to the court system than the Safe Sport investigative process. Now I think it makes sense that the process for disbarring an attorney would be closer to the normal legal system than it would for sanctioning a member of a sport club, but it did get me thinking about how that maps on to other professional licensing bodies, so I looked into it a bit.

                                        In my state (Oregon), the medical board's investigation process is remarkably similar to Safe Sport's. Even the flow chart looks pretty much the same, though it does include the flow into the court system which Safe Sport's doesn't. Our state medical board's policy maps on very closely to the Federation of State Medical Board's policy document Addressing Sexual Boundaries: Guidelines for State Medical Boards so it's not just Oregon. You'll notice how Section IV advocates for the discretion to close hearings related to sexual misconduct to encourage victim participation, though it does mention that some states may have statues on the books that preclude closed hearings for medical board complaints.

                                        The notices of disciplinary action from the Oregon Medical Board are very interesting to me, and I wonder if adopting a similar process might help with some of the more mild pushback from folks in these high-profile cases. The board releases a monthly summary of actions taken that includes a summary of the process and findings of fact, both with the statute numbers the licensee was accused and found of violating. Here's the most recent month's; I found Duane Stanley Bietz's case on page 8 of the PDF to be a good example. Obviously medicine has very strict patient confidentiality laws, and as you can see the report has no real details on what happened, just the specific statutes that were violated. It's really just an extension of what Safe Sport puts out already, but with citations that tie back to the code and a summary of the actions the board took to reach the decision.

                                        Now, I'm not naive enough to think that this would be enough to pacify everyone; there's a significant chunk of our sport that just doesn't want to believe ANY report of sexual misconduct, and even more in cases that might involve a BNT/BNR. But I do think something like that summary of actions would help educate reasonable people on the Safe Sport process and alleviate some of the backlash (which, IMO, is deeply harmful to survivors).

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Room for a Pony View Post
                                          Diane Carney is asking people on Facebook to contact the White House. What would the executive branch do? Comes off as quite desperate to me. She has had GHM in for clinics for years.
                                          This is hilarious.

                                          Trump is anti chil abuse, not to get into a political debate AT ALL - Im not American people lol but anyways, he is one of the reasons for the fall of Hollywood and Epstein. Regardless of what people think of him, he 100% would not support a man who is thought to abuse children. The me too and victim strength movement are makings of this government.
                                          Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X