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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by Minxitbabe View Post

    Absolutely it is. I was taught from a very young age what was and was not appropriate and what was to happen if anything not appropriate transpired. I sleep like someone who doesn't have to worry about what a ridiculous sports group will make mandatory next.
    (my bold)

    SafeSport is mandatory for most competitive sporting organizations nationwide and elsewhere. Out of all of these sports groups, negative hostile reactions such as yours are primarily found within the equestrian populace.

    Can you explain that?

    Are equestrian sports operating in their own bubble of purity? Taking place in a different sphere from virtually every other sport? An extraordinary place where bad things don't happen to athletes?

    Should SafeSport make an exception for the superior ethical community that is found in horse sport?

    Insight please. Because at this point I'm finding myself filling in my own blanks and it isn't pretty.
    One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
    William Shakespeare

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Alterforme View Post
      Vanessa Brown on her fb is encouraging people to read the SS information. The comments are all anti SS.
      An interesting comment by Jim Giorgio- He feels” a class action suit is right around the corner “. He suggests the “ need to raise $500k to unleash the sharks.” He states that if 25,000 USEF members each donate $20, or 50,000 members each donate $10, that in a SS minute the funds will be raised .”
      Really? No words.
      This is just what I want my sport to be known for - a grassroots effort to dismantle protection for child athletes from sexual predation, led by a sex offender.
      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

      Comment


      • In other news, a rather interesting public post on Kristin Medall Simpson-Ferguson Hardin’s page in the last few hours.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by poltroon View Post

          This is just what I want my sport to be known for - a grassroots effort to dismantle protection for child athletes from sexual predation, led by a sex offender.
          Didn’t Vanessa marry Buddy Brown? You know, the guy who owned Streetwise. There isn’t an abundance of moral character in a lot of these folks.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by flofleming View Post

            Didn’t Vanessa marry Buddy Brown? You know, the guy who owned Streetwise. There isn’t an abundance of moral character in a lot of these folks.
            At the time of Streetwise's demise, Buddy was married to Donna Brown. Donna pled guilty. Buddy was not implicated.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_murders#Donna_Brown <--whole thing is highly recommended reading
            The Evil Chem Prof

            Comment


            • Originally posted by poltroon View Post

              This is just what I want my sport to be known for - a grassroots effort to dismantle protection for child athletes from sexual predation, led by a sex offender.
              Yep. It's nauseating for us, but will be fascinating for the mainstream press.

              I hope all of the people complaining about safe sport will be happy to see their opinions repeated in the mainstream press. Because they will be. What you put on the internet doesn't go away.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Peggy View Post

                At the time of Streetwise's demise, Buddy was married to Donna Brown. Donna pled guilty. Buddy was not implicated.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_murders#Donna_Brown <--whole thing is highly recommended reading
                And I have some waterfront property in Arizona I’d like to sell ya. What Valliere was doing was not completely unknown before the story broke with Donna’s taped call. There were already insurance companies that wouldn’t do business with him. It seems unlikely that someone who rode for him wouldn’t have any idea what was going on, plus that whole crew was snow blind, if you know what I mean.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by poltroon View Post

                  This is just what I want my sport to be known for - a grassroots effort to dismantle protection for child athletes from sexual predation, led by a sex offender.
                  This made me laugh because it’s just so insane. If this doesn’t sum up everything wrong in the horse industry I don’t know what does.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ohmyheck View Post
                    (my bold)

                    SafeSport is mandatory for most competitive sporting organizations nationwide and elsewhere. Out of all of these sports groups, negative hostile reactions such as yours are primarily found within the equestrian populace.

                    Can you explain that?

                    Are equestrian sports operating in their own bubble of purity? Taking place in a different sphere from virtually every other sport? An extraordinary place where bad things don't happen to athletes?

                    Should SafeSport make an exception for the superior ethical community that is found in horse sport?

                    Insight please. Because at this point I'm finding myself filling in my own blanks and it isn't pretty.
                    So....I actually discussed Safesport with two friends who coach minors in completely unrelated sports - synchronized swimming and high school cross country.

                    Friend who coaches synchro falls in the camp of "like what Safesport is trying to achieve, but there are major problems" - she cited concerns that she was not allowed in the locker room if any of her girls were (problematic if the locker room is where the bathroom is, or the only way to enter/exit the pool). She also said that there was frustration on her team because the girls who turned 18 were expected to unfriend their younger friends on social media. So that's an example of frustrations with Safesport outside of equestrian (we didn't talk about whether there had been any allegations of misconduct in her sport, and how those were viewed).

                    Friend who coaches cross country said that she was not required to be a member of USATF (the equivalent of USEF for running) in order to coach high school cross country, and Safesport hadn't really come up as a topic. This echoed what I've observed elsewhere in running - many who compete and coach in that sport are outside of USATF, as you don't really need to be a member of USATF in order to compete until you are at a certain level (and pretty much everyone at that level is over 18). I have seen far less announcements of Safesport actions from USATF then from USEF, but I think that's in part because USATF membership isn't as universal in running as USEF membership is in riding.

                    I'm guessing that running is not the only sport where you can be very involved in the sport without being a member of the national governing body, and thus subject to Safesport. So that may be a reason behind not all sports having the same uproar about Safesport.


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

                      There are a significant number of people posting there who used to have my respect.
                      I have been editing my 'like and respect' list for months.
                      *****
                      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Minxitbabe View Post
                        The only comment I have on this whole mess is this is exactly why I will never join an organization that adheres to the SS garbage. You have no true recourse and you can be tar and feathered on a whim and hearsay. No thanks not the kind of world I want to subject myself to. Carry on supporting a group that wants to do things in such a way even though there is no way there is any true evidence after 50 years. What a crock...
                        Why do you think the only accusation is from 50 years ago?
                        *****
                        You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Minxitbabe View Post

                          I have no issue with rules that make sense but some random organization being able to make a ruling in something that would never stand up in court is asinine. By making it a rule that I have to report anyone for doing any of the oh so terrible things on the SS naughty list is ridiculous. Reading the article written by the junior rider made me angry for all the lost opportunities and relationships the creation of SS is going to have.
                          You know doctors and lawyers and school teachers and lose their licenses for things that will "not stand up in court", right? But they break the rules the organizations want their membership to uphold.
                          *****
                          You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darkwave View Post

                            So....I actually discussed Safesport with two friends who coach minors in completely unrelated sports - synchronized swimming and high school cross country.

                            Friend who coaches synchro falls in the camp of "like what Safesport is trying to achieve, but there are major problems" - she cited concerns that she was not allowed in the locker room if any of her girls were (problematic if the locker room is where the bathroom is, or the only way to enter/exit the pool). She also said that there was frustration on her team because the girls who turned 18 were expected to unfriend their younger friends on social media. So that's an example of frustrations with Safesport outside of equestrian (we didn't talk about whether there had been any allegations of misconduct in her sport, and how those were viewed).

                            Friend who coaches cross country said that she was not required to be a member of USATF (the equivalent of USEF for running) in order to coach high school cross country, and Safesport hadn't really come up as a topic. This echoed what I've observed elsewhere in running - many who compete and coach in that sport are outside of USATF, as you don't really need to be a member of USATF in order to compete until you are at a certain level (and pretty much everyone at that level is over 18). I have seen far less announcements of Safesport actions from USATF then from USEF, but I think that's in part because USATF membership isn't as universal in running as USEF membership is in riding.

                            I'm guessing that running is not the only sport where you can be very involved in the sport without being a member of the national governing body, and thus subject to Safesport. So that may be a reason behind not all sports having the same uproar about Safesport.

                            What I have bolded is an example of how people in other sports also have misunderstandings about the policies. Because SafeSport does not say athletes should unfollow minor friends on social media when they turn 18. Right in the training, they reference that three (?) year age gap where overlap between “adult” and “minor” athletes is expected and not of concern in a positive situation. The MAAP policies recommend athletes over 18 only need to adhere to these rules when interacting with children under 14, which I understand can be challenging on an all-ages team, but certainly not unrealistic.

                            Also, locker room stuff doesn’t forbade a coach from entering. It actually encourages locker room monitoring. It prohibits the coach being exposed in there at the same time as the minors, it prohibits recording, it discourages one-on-one locker room interactions between adults and minors when they can be avoided, but recognizes there may be necessary emergencies.

                            Please don’t think I’m yelling at you or judging your friend. I have a friend affiliated with sailing who had similar misunderstandings. All organizations need to do a better job navigating education surrounding SS, because the same misconceptions get tossed around repeatedly. If it had not been for the strong equestrian pushback, I certainly would have never taken the time to do a “deep dive” into the rules.
                            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                            Comment


                            • I saw GM essentially molest some random boy in a public setting at a clinic some 40 years ago under the guise of correcting his position and I was shocked at the time by what he was doing. No, the accusations don't surprise me in the least. Back then, no one said a word. In fact, I've never seen anyone publicly take GM on for his rampant verbal abuse of a child (or adult) at a clinic, even recently. Can you imagine what would happen to them if they did? Is there anyone here with the guts to do that?

                              I only personally know 1 other person on the banned list and he has a criminal conviction for sexual misconduct with a minor. That's certainly not hearsay or unsubstantiated.

                              When SafeSport first came out, I had some serious doubts about it, although I never doubted that the Equestrian community needed it. Reading the hysterical rantings of people who say that it's absolutely the child's fault for not reporting abuse at the time and how people's lives are ruined because of one unsubstantiated rumor from 50 years ago has made me change my mind. Cumbersome it may be, but it is absolutely necessary.

                              BTW, I don't see this outpouring of support for some of the lesser-known names on the banned list. I guess you only get that if you're famous.

                              Comment


                              • Hypothetical question.

                                Let's say this gets appealed and overturned. Are we ready to accept the individual back into the group without prejudice, without knowing the details of the appeal?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                                  Hypothetical question.

                                  Let's say this gets appealed and overturned. Are we ready to accept the individual back into the group without prejudice, without knowing the details of the appeal?
                                  Many are.

                                  I'm not, but I also have some bias based on stories from someone who trained with him that I found really appalling. My feelings on that matter predate the ss thing though, so I guess my feelings haven't really changed with this news to begin with.

                                  "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                  My CANTER blog.

                                  Comment


                                  • Now, I'm waiting for the GoFundMe page for GMs legal defense. I didn't donate to Mary Phelps trip overseas and I wouldn't do this.

                                    If you joined the GM support page, pls let the rest of us know who is standing by GM. I'd like to know so that my dollars don't go to those people in the future.

                                    Comment


                                    • Who are you including in "we?" Can "we" vote to get off the island?
                                      "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                      Comment


                                      • I am sure this has already been stated but you do realize that he is controlling the narrative by stating allegations from 1968-1972 - first, did he state the latest allegations that are in his SS punishment? No, because fifty years ago will get y'all going. Second, a four year period? Doesn't sound like he did something once does it? He is nasty to people in public, why is it so hard to believe he is not nasty in private? You are only getting his side of the story and he might be a great rider and writer, but that doesn't make him a great person.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
                                          Who are you including in "we?" Can "we" vote to get off the island?
                                          We is anyone without firsthand knowledge, here on this board, reading this topic. We is also USEF, who will of course accept him back if this is overturned in appeals because otherwise they'd get the pants sued off of them.

                                          Right now we have come to the conclusion, as a group, myself included (bolded before 'some' posters get on their righteous indignation boxes), that we are willing to condemn someone without knowing the details of the case - we trust that SS has done the due diligence in regards to the investigation and subsequent suspension.

                                          Now, if the person, who has the right to appeal, does so and gets the suspension overturned... are we willing, as a group, to accept the person back with the same passion that we were willing to extricate them with, without knowing the details of the appeal?

                                          I don't know the answer for myself, but it's something we have to be prepared to be accountable for. Everyone can make mistakes, even the governing bodies. I think not accepting them back is blatant hypocrisy, but at the same time I know that money=power, and power corrupts.

                                          It's a hard call, that's all I'm saying.

                                          Comment

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