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  • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

    I think there is a generational or vintage effect going on here. I’m old enough that the story was too shocking to have been assigned in high school (gasp) or college; twenty years later is was probably common in college and even high school, perhaps for someone young enough to be a newly minted nurse, it’s just not near the top of the heap of books they might have read.

    Am I culturally illiterate for not knowing what the hell Tik Tok is?
    I'm 42 so I'm no spring chicken... I got my BA in 2011. I didn't take any English literature classes though. Let's just put it this way, I had almost enough credits for a minor in Latin American studies when I graduated! The reason I didn't get it is because they created that minor my last quarter, and I would have had to take another semester and I was just ready to graduate! So I am more familiar with writers from below the border

    Ok, I'll get off of this tangent now back to the important topic of idiots who support sexual abusers and why that really sucks.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TheMoo View Post
      100 Years of Solitude loses A LOT in translation.

      The people wanting Safe Sport reform do not care about the victims, they don’t care about the people on the banned list beyond their friends. They just don’t care.

      I wish they would use the donation money to start their own circuit.
      Except I would worry about kids whose parents had them competing on the Doped Horses and Pedophiles circuit.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mvp View Post

        Hold up!

        The whole "illiteracy" remark was mine and it was used in the literal sense-- to refer to people who didn't read Nabokov's novel (for whatever reason) but could merely view the same story in movie form.

        If you want to extend that limited and actual meaning of the term "illiterate" as it was used in my post to mean "dumb," and pull over from the topic of this thread to get butt-hurt about that, you can. But that's not what my post and the term in it requires of you.

        BTW, I think I have seen the movie, too. I barely remember the movie in and of itself. It's a 1955 or so movie so it implies a lot rather than shows a lot. I remember thinking all that innuendo was even creepier because I had read the novel.
        You meant “illiteracy” literally?

        “Illiteracy” means lacking the ability to read, which is different from “declined to study literature in college”.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

          How can the movie be 1955 with Jeremy Irons as Humbert?
          1962 Movie - James Mason as Humbert

          1997 Remake - Jeremy Irons as Humbert

          "Oh, sure, you may be able to take down one smurf, but mark my words: You bonk one smurf, you better be ready for a blue wave."---Bucky Katt

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mara View Post

            Except I would worry about kids whose parents had them competing on the Doped Horses and Pedophiles circuit.
            Agreed. However I doubt the circuit would get much traction. I mean how many people said they wouldn’t renew and drop their membership? Bet they are all at WEF.

            It would be nice if they actually acted on their convictions rather than solicit money on falsehoods. Diane Carney had an opportunity to test the aiding and abetting clause yet she didn’t. For all the shrieking they don’t have the balls to challenge the law they deem “unconstitutional.”

            Then there is DM making an honest attempt to wax philosophical about his BFF but it’s mostly incoherent ramblings of someone with the emotional maturity of a five year old. He actually told Fair Judy she doesn’t know what she’s talking about when Ward got brought up on the FB thread. He knows better because his aunt rode with Ward.

            And last we have Packy telling us we should all wish we had a lawyer like BN. Uh no. I prefer my attorneys to actually KNOW the law and not have over the top emotional reactions instead.

            It’s just ridiculous and they really need their own sand box.

            Comment


            • Hawthorne's short stories are way better than his novels.

              The reform group members can't exhibit empathy for the victims, because they've channeled their empathy to people who rape children.

              I'm an English professor who has never read a lot of things, Moby Dick is a hard pass.
              Let me apologize in advance.

              Comment


              • I'm as avid a reader as anyone here, but can we take the literature discussion to Off Topic? Now that we're clear on Lolita and Humbert?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by skydy View Post
                  Peggy, While reading the Russian literature I have read, I have said to myself "alright, why don't you get on with it already, how long do you need to extend this thought, with it's diversion into what should be footnotes at this point..."

                  Nothing to do with the subject at hand, but jeeze I've read most of it, including the Communist Manifesto of Carl Marx, even the Gulag Archipelago was written in excruciating detail. Bless their intellectual hearts but nope, not a fan.

                  Can't blame them though, it's a difficult life they've been writing about most often.
                  Several others have pointed out that Karl Marx was German, but I’m compelled to go further and say that it’s a serious lapse to incorrectly refer to him as Russian. Karl Marx wrote “Das Kapital” which explained why social and political dynamics would inevitably lead an industrialized, capitalist country like Germany into socialist (communist) revolution. According to Marx, the communist revolution was supposed to happen (inexorably) in countries like Germany, not Russia, which was poor and agrarian.

                  The irony is that Marx benefited from British hospitality and tolerance and wrote Das Kapital sitting in the British Museum in London!

                  It is rather important to understand that Marx was German and predicted the communist revolution for Germany and other countries like it, as that demonstrates one of the essential ways he got it wrong. Very wrong.


                  Comment


                  • Mara - that’s fair, and my apologies. It was nice to have a bit of levity for awhile on this thread. The topic of GM and how the community is reacting to his ban, and how ISWG has morphed into this whole Athletes for Equity in Sport thing is so darn sad.

                    But you are justified in asking us to knock it off. This thread is long enough already without adding lots of tangents

                    Comment


                    • I found the constitutional rights brought up in one of the questions to Mr Henry (if I remember the name from the Safe Sport Q&A) hysterical. Nobody has a "constitutional right" to be a part of a USEF. I wonder if explaining that nobody has a "constitutional right" to belong to an association or retain their employment in a business when they have been found to have committed a misconduct of the association or businesses rules will be part of what the communications firm will address.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mara View Post
                        I'm as avid a reader as anyone here, but can we take the literature discussion to Off Topic? Now that we're clear on Lolita and Humbert?
                        I concur.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                          I found the constitutional rights brought up in one of the questions to Mr Henry (if I remember the name from the Safe Sport Q&A) hysterical. Nobody has a "constitutional right" to be a part of a USEF. I wonder if explaining that nobody has a "constitutional right" to belong to an association or retain their employment in a business when they have been found to have committed a misconduct of the association or businesses rules will be part of what the communications firm will address.
                          We have collectively for months now attempted to convey that membership in a private club is not protected by the constitution, and that pedophiles and rapists aren't a protected class.


                          We have made no headway.
                          Let me apologize in advance.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TheMoo View Post

                            Agreed. However I doubt the circuit would get much traction. I mean how many people said they wouldn’t renew and drop their membership? Bet they are all at WEF.

                            It would be nice if they actually acted on their convictions rather than solicit money on falsehoods. Diane Carney had an opportunity to test the aiding and abetting clause yet she didn’t. For all the shrieking they don’t have the balls to challenge the law they deem “unconstitutional.”

                            Then there is DM making an honest attempt to wax philosophical about his BFF but it’s mostly incoherent ramblings of someone with the emotional maturity of a five year old. He actually told Fair Judy she doesn’t know what she’s talking about when Ward got brought up on the FB thread. He knows better because his aunt rode with Ward.

                            And last we have Packy telling us we should all wish we had a lawyer like BN. Uh no. I prefer my attorneys to actually KNOW the law and not have over the top emotional reactions instead.

                            It’s just ridiculous and they really need their own sand box.
                            Excellent post. I just went back and saw Duncan’s latest and greatest words of wisdom on social media, and I feel it is entirely fair and appropriate to copy and paste his public comment, and share it here so that people can judge his words for themselves.

                            I agree about the assessment that he has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old for what it’s worth. Others have made the astute observation that he is behaving like a blow hard who seems to be all about puffery, and talking about who he knows and is somehow theoretically closely associated with, and is essentially using the current moment in our sport with Safe Sport and some of these prominent situations involving big names to grab a bit of attention for... himself. He’s quite impressed with himself.

                            I wholeheartedly agree with that as well.

                            As I have said on a different thread... I’m much more impressed with his wife than him, and he should zip it, stat, and just focus on being supportive of her given all she personally has been through. instead of playing some role as some sort of bizarro philosopher/restorative justice expert and trying to educate others.

                            Anyway... here’s the comment. And in an ironic twist that you can’t make up, he mentions the Scarlett letter and gulags.

                            “**** **** you don’t know him as well as I do. And I’m not sure if you’ve read his book? He was a teammate with my aunt. And there is something about being gay from the time period that he came from that requires incredible bravery. That doesn’t mean that there weren’t abuse power dynamics because I’m sure there were, but if you were to ask whether he continued to abuse power dynamics? That’s what restorative justice is about.

                            It’s not shocking that we would have the attitudes we do that if someone ever did something wrong then they have to wear a brand. We are the nation of the scarlet letter. But we also are the nation that somehow has created the highest population of prisoners since the Gulag. Food for thought.”
                            Last edited by Virginia Horse Mom; Dec. 13, 2019, 02:28 PM. Reason: edited out unnecessary tags.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mara View Post
                              I'm as avid a reader as anyone here, but can we take the literature discussion to Off Topic? Now that we're clear on Lolita and Humbert?
                              Mara can speak for herself, obviously, but speaking for myself, I tend to enjoy the tangents.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                                Excellent post. I just went back and saw Duncan’s latest and greatest words of wisdom on social media, and I feel it is entirely fair and appropriate to copy and paste his public comment, and share it here so that people can judge his words for themselves.

                                I agree about the assessment that he has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old for what it’s worth. Others have made the astute observation that he is behaving like a blow hard who seems to be all about puffery, and talking about who he knows and is somehow theoretically closely associated with, and is essentially using the current moment in our sport with Safe Sport and some of these prominent situations involving big names to grab a bit of attention for... himself. He’s quite impressed with himself.

                                I wholeheartedly agree with that as well.

                                As I have said on a different thread... I’m much more impressed with his wife than him, and he should zip it, stat, and just focus on being supportive of her given all she personally has been through. instead of playing some role as some sort of bizarro philosopher/restorative justice expert and trying to educate others.

                                Anyway... here’s the comment. And in an ironic twist that you can’t make up, he mentions the Scarlett letter and gulags.

                                “Sarah Pair you don’t know him as well as I do. And I’m not sure if you’ve read his book? He was a teammate with my aunt. And there is something about being gay from the time period that he came from that requires incredible bravery. That doesn’t mean that there weren’t abuse power dynamics because I’m sure there were, but if you were to ask whether he continued to abuse power dynamics? That’s what restorative justice is about.

                                It’s not shocking that we would have the attitudes we do that if someone ever did something wrong then they have to wear a brand. We are the nation of the scarlet letter. But we also are the nation that somehow has created the highest population of prisoners since the Gulag. Food for thought.”
                                Duncan's comment speaks to exactly the intersectional crisis I said months ago was coming for people like Dover, and obviously duncan:

                                These guys ostensibly believe they're defending a gay man from homophobia, but really they're defending a pedophile who happened to prefer boys, thus perpetuating the worst homophobic stereotype of all.
                                Let me apologize in advance.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                                  Excellent post. I just went back and saw Duncan’s latest and greatest words of wisdom on social media, and I feel it is entirely fair and appropriate to copy and paste his public comment, and share it here so that people can judge his words for themselves.

                                  I agree about the assessment that he has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old for what it’s worth. Others have made the astute observation that he is behaving like a blow hard who seems to be all about puffery, and talking about who he knows and is somehow theoretically closely associated with, and is essentially using the current moment in our sport with Safe Sport and some of these prominent situations involving big names to grab a bit of attention for... himself. He’s quite impressed with himself.

                                  I wholeheartedly agree with that as well.

                                  As I have said on a different thread... I’m much more impressed with his wife than him, and he should zip it, stat, and just focus on being supportive of her given all she personally has been through. instead of playing some role as some sort of bizarro philosopher/restorative justice expert and trying to educate others.

                                  Anyway... here’s the comment. And in an ironic twist that you can’t make up, he mentions the Scarlett letter and gulags.

                                  “Sarah Pair you don’t know him as well as I do. And I’m not sure if you’ve read his book? He was a teammate with my aunt. And there is something about being gay from the time period that he came from that requires incredible bravery. That doesn’t mean that there weren’t abuse power dynamics because I’m sure there were, but if you were to ask whether he continued to abuse power dynamics? That’s what restorative justice is about.

                                  It’s not shocking that we would have the attitudes we do that if someone ever did something wrong then they have to wear a brand. We are the nation of the scarlet letter. But we also are the nation that somehow has created the highest population of prisoners since the Gulag. Food for thought.”
                                  I did see his post, oddly and solely because I changed my Facebook presence to Sarah pair simply because I wasn’t comfortable with unfriending 150 people. Facebook became to triggering for me and now all the people I blocked under Sarah Hochschwender are visible again.😎 I have no problem with Duncan’s comments although it is telling that he immediately backed up when I revealed to him that I am Sarah Hochschwender. I have given
                                  him my phone number to contact me. Sadly, I learned some time ago not to have in-depth private conversations in private messaging. I do hope he contacts me. I believe in restorative justice, the trigger for Duncan was when I asked him if he really thought George was interested in participating in that process.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                                    I found the constitutional rights brought up in one of the questions to Mr Henry (if I remember the name from the Safe Sport Q&A) hysterical. Nobody has a "constitutional right" to be a part of a USEF. I wonder if explaining that nobody has a "constitutional right" to belong to an association or retain their employment in a business when they have been found to have committed a misconduct of the association or businesses rules will be part of what the communications firm will address.
                                    They use “constitutional rights” as a buzzword. If you push them to use complete sentences, I think they have in mind 1) the constitutional right to a fair trial and 2) the right to be presumed innocent until found guilty in a fair trial.

                                    What is too subtle for them to understand is that those constitutional rights apply to criminal and civil prosecution by the state, and do not apply to SafeSport or the SafeSport code, even though SafeSport was created and mandated by federal legislation.

                                    Actually, I think some of them do understand it by now, but lacking a legitimate objection, they keep falling back on the misused “It’s unconstitutional!” Think of it as a pretentious way of saying “But I don’t like it!”

                                    There’s a reason they don’t speak in complete sentences or articulate a coherent position. They don’t have a coherent position to articulate.

                                    Comment


                                    • Yeah some of these guys haven't gotten the news flash that you can be straight, gay, or bi with consenting adults, but when you start molesting and penetrating the kids, you need to go.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by fair judy View Post

                                        I did see his post, oddly and solely because I changed my Facebook presence to Sarah pair simply because I wasn’t comfortable with unfriending 150 people. Facebook became to triggering for me and now all the people I blocked under Sarah Hochschwender are visible again.😎 I have no problem with Duncan’s comments although it is telling that he immediately backed up when I revealed to him that I am Sarah Hochschwender. I have given
                                        him my phone number to contact me. Sadly, I learned some time ago not to have in-depth private conversations in private messaging. I do hope he contacts me. I believe in restorative justice, the trigger for Duncan was when I asked him if he really thought George was interested in participating in that process.
                                        Judy - I want to apologize that in my 1st post, I unintentionally copied in your Facebook name. I went back and edited.

                                        You’ve been very strong and forthright on both social media outlets (FB and these forums) But I feel terribly if I end up causing you to experience more harassment from dummies. You don’t deserve it

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                                          Yeah some of these guys haven't gotten the news flash that you can be straight, gay, or bi with consenting adults, but when you start molesting and penetrating the kids, you need to go.
                                          I honestly think that’s their own bias.

                                          Fair Judy you are one strong lady. And more power to you for willing to have a conversation. I personally couldn’t as the thoughts are rambling at best, incoherent at worst. Maybe he’s a better conversationalist than writer.

                                          Comment

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