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George Morris on the SS list

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    Originally posted by Midge View Post
    Forget Lolita. I would like people who drag up the Constitution to actually know what the heck it means.
    Yes, please.

    Can we just require that people either read and understand the documents they cite or STFU about them? Either one would be fine.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment


      Capall

      I don’t think the people referencing Lolita are trying to make those who didn’t read the book feel illiterate .

      Lolita is written from Humbert’s (the pedophile) (or however he is classified) point of view. Because if this, the reader tends to see him as a bit less of a monster because he gets to put his spin on the events that occurred.

      Lolita was a little girl (12?) when she met him. Her normal 12 year old behavior was viewed as seductive from someone with a proclivity towards towards being sexually attracted to children.

      I believe what mvp is trying to explain is that any normal adult would read the book and be disgusted and appalled by the writers narrative. Being sexually attracted to children and acting on it is just wrong, no matter how sympathetic the narrator may seem.
      Humbert puts the spin that Lolita seduced him and ruined his life, when in fact it was he who stole her innocence and ruined hers.

      It is all about perspective. Blaming the victims (as what happens in Lolita) is what we are seeing with the ISWG group.

      No matter how persuasive a narrator may be, it never makes the act of violating children or teens acceptable. Period.
      http://thepitchforkchronicles.com

      Comment


        Originally posted by mvp View Post

        Hold up!

        The whole "illiteracy" remark was mine and it was used in the literal sense-- to refer to people who didn't read Nabokov's novel (for whatever reason) but could merely view the same story in movie form.

        If you want to extend that limited and actual meaning of the term "illiterate" as it was used in my post to mean "dumb," and pull over from the topic of this thread to get butt-hurt about that, you can. But that's not what my post and the term in it requires of you.
        And with that, I think we can all move right along to the topic of using irony as a literary device.

        Comment


          Yeah, it's way easier when these people just stick to calling the survivors of childhood sexual abuse "junior whores". No literary analysis needed there.
          Let me apologize in advance.

          Comment


            Alright guys, sorry. It has been a whirlwind last few months for me with my last quarter of nursing school (and well, two years of nursing school and two years of pre-reqs) eating my brain alive. I was 99% joking

            100 years of solitude though... I am NOT joking about that. I salute anyone who found that enjoyable, but I did get an A on the paper I had to write about it

            Comment


              Originally posted by mvp View Post

              But my point stands: Does any adult, half-way moral reader of Lolita really see her as the causal agent of their affair?
              Yep. It's from an ancient twisted mindset, but so they do. There are those who think she's the subtle initiator, and there are those who think that however it started, she kept it going for her own purposes. Of course that's why her name became descriptive of a behavior pattern by underage girls as perceived by that point of view.

              Wait, you said "half-way moral". Not sure about that part.

              But I am further disturbed that the stereotypical negative perspective of the Lolita of the book seems to be the peg that at least some of the anti-SS crowd is hanging their hat on, even though they haven't used the name in their rhetoric. Finally we are down to it, it seems -- they haven't denied that things happened, they just deny that the accused is the responsible party. That leaves the underage girl or boy as the situational engineer.

              Comment


                Virginia Horse Mom Russian literature > 200 Years of Solitude. Though I haven’t read that much.
                The Evil Chem Prof

                Comment


                  Peggy, While reading the Russian literature I have read, I have said to myself "alright, why don't you get on with it already, how long do you need to extend this thought, with it's diversion into what should be footnotes at this point..."

                  Nothing to do with the subject at hand, but jeeze I've read most of it, including the Communist Manifesto of Carl Marx, even the Gulag Archipelago was written in excruciating detail. Bless their intellectual hearts but nope, not a fan.

                  Can't blame them though, it's a difficult life they've been writing about most often.
                  Last edited by skydy; Dec. 13, 2019, 03:26 AM. Reason: Clarity

                  Comment


                    (marx was german)
                    Let me apologize in advance.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by skydy View Post
                      Peggy, While reading the Russian literature I have read, I have said to myself "alright, why don't you get on with it already, how long do you need to extend this thought, with it's diversion into what should be footnotes at this point..."

                      Nothing to do with the subject at hand, but jeeze I've read most of it, including the Communist Manifesto of Carl Marx, even the Gulag Archipelago was written in excruciating detail. Bless their intellectual hearts but nope, not a fan.

                      Can't blame them though, it's a difficult life they've been writing about most often.
                      Karl Marx was German.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                      Comment


                        Been reading this thread as I have had time, not all of it of course, but a good part. Very entertaining at times, and certainly looking at the whole thread, a microcosm of our American Society and its Values. Lots of great input from all angles, moral, legal and ethical, etc. Big changes may be ahead for some in the well-insulated and sometimes well-protected folks in the Equestrian World. This Change began outside of our sport and is inevitable and coming whether someone likes or approves of it or not. Is it perfect? No, but evolving. I believe with great input, time and experience it has the ability to change all sports for the better. What can you do? Accept that things are going to change and help it be the best it can be.

                        This reminds me somewhat of my job. Someone makes a decision and you come in one day and here is what is going to change. Sometimes it is a small change, sometimes it will change EVERYTHING you do. To make the best of the change, you should try and minimize your instinctive resistance to the change and embrace it and make it the best it can be. This is really hard. In the world where you have change shoved down your throat over and over (like at my work), it can give you the tools to make the best of future changes.
                        Some days the best thing about my job is that the chair spins.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by WB Mom View Post
                          Big changes may be ahead for some in the well-insulated and sometimes well-protected folks in the Equestrian World. This Change began outside of our sport and is inevitable and coming whether someone likes or approves of it or not. Is it perfect? No, but evolving. I believe with great input, time and experience it has the ability to change all sports for the better. What can you do? Accept that things are going to change and help it be the best it can be.
                          REALLY well stated.

                          I am sure Safe Sport or MAAP policies, or other aspects of the whole process can be amended and improved in certain respects. And given that Safe Sport is essentially an oversight organization involving an administrative process... it’s not as efficient or responsive as is ideal. Probably not even close.

                          But I think it is better to have a way in which to address this sort of abuse, than to continue to ignore it. So I support it, and am hopeful over time that it will lead to less abuse and a change in the culture of many sports.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post

                            Karl Marx was German.
                            Sorry, It was a long time ago when I was reading that sort of thing. Mein Kampf was horribly long winded as well. I just remember the incredibly excruciating writing style and must have lumped all them all together.

                            I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python's "Philosopher's Song".

                            Comment


                              I think some people confuse efficiency with speed of process, but they are not necessarily synonymous.

                              You can have a perfectly clear and efficient process that still takes time, especially when safe sport is spending years on certain investigations in order to be thorough, uncover relevant facts, and interview relative witnesses.

                              The human element is what often slows an efficient process, but the process itself remains the same.
                              Let me apologize in advance.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Capall View Post
                                Alright guys, sorry. It has been a whirlwind last few months for me with my last quarter of nursing school (and well, two years of nursing school and two years of pre-reqs) eating my brain alive. I was 99% joking

                                100 years of solitude though... I am NOT joking about that. I salute anyone who found that enjoyable, but I did get an A on the paper I had to write about it
                                I am an avid reader of anything and everything. I got an "A" on my report on Moby Dick and I sure as &$*&)($% don't want to read THAT again! I think that's one of those books most people remember being FORCED to read. LOL
                                Last edited by Belowthesalt; Dec. 13, 2019, 05:11 PM.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by skydy View Post

                                  Sorry, It was a long time ago when I was reading that sort of thing. Mein Kampf was horribly long winded as well. I just remember the incredibly excruciating writing style and must have lumped all them all together.

                                  I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python's "Philosopher's Song".
                                  LOL.....Immanual Kant was a real...…. - Gotcha, Bruce.

                                  Comment


                                    This may have already been posted here, since there are a few similar threads right now.

                                    But at the presentation at the USHJA meeting this week in Denver, the representative from safe sport said that they have had something like 4000 cases to work on since the organization started 2.5 years ago. Not just in equestrian sport, but in all 52(?) sports they cover under the Olympic umbrella. I believe he said they have about 20 people for that work, and they are in the process of doubling their workforce.

                                    Anyone who wants to know more about the process should really watch the video of that Denver presentation when it becomes available from USHJA. It really answered lots of the questions involved, and the representative did a very thorough job of explaining how it all works.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                      I am now resisting the temptation of adding a link to Monty Python's "Philosopher's Song".
                                      AAARRRGGH!!! NOOOOOO!! *earworm crawls into place for the next week or so*

                                      What I find depressing about the ISWG crowd's apparent lack of comprehension skills is their repeated indignation and outrage about things that have been repeatedly and patiently explained and pointed out - but any such input is just summarily swept aside as it is not an exoneration of dear George.

                                      They do not care about facts. They do not care about the careful process SafeSport follows. All they care about is their own righteous indignation and George ... and maybe some are squirming a bit and wondering if their past (or present) may smack them upside the head.

                                      Embarrassing and just plain depressing.

                                      *...there's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist...*



                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Capall View Post
                                        Ok can we please stop with saying people who haven't read "Lolita" are ignorant, illiterate etc? I have never read it nor seen the movie, and I do not believe that makes me somehow less of a person. It's just never been something I've read or desire to read! I consider myself to be well-read and just graduated from a very tough nursing program so I am definitely not an idiot!

                                        Tongue firmly in cheek, but kind of at the comments that "ermagerd yer derdernt rerd ther berk yerd dermb!

                                        No one is saying you’re ignorant for not having read “Lolita”. BTW, in the movie version, I think the Humbert character (the middle aged man who seduces/is transfixed by Lolita) is played by Jeremy Irons.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Capall View Post

                                          I have a BA in Anthropology and no, I never read it. Never needed to, never wanted to. Have heard of the gist of it but never read it. I still have no desire to read it. Basically all I've heard about it was a younger girl and older guy and some sort of seduction going on. So, I guess you can be surprised that not every college educated person in the US has read every book that is considered "canon."

                                          I HAVE read 100 years of solitude and would like those hours of my life back...
                                          I think there is a generational or vintage effect going on here. I’m old enough that the story was too shocking to have been assigned in high school (gasp) or college; twenty years later it was probably common in college and even high school, perhaps for someone young enough to be a newly minted nurse, it’s just not near the top of the heap of books they might have read.

                                          Am I culturally illiterate for not knowing what the hell Tik Tok is?
                                          Last edited by YankeeDuchess; Dec. 15, 2019, 05:33 PM.

                                          Comment

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