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George Morris on the SS list

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    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

    MVP, there was nothing imperious or "smart ass", in my comment, it was a statement of facts in direct opposition to your name calling.
    Telling Satin Filly that if she didn't like SafeSport's ruling she could become an arbitrator was a mean-spirited response insofar as you know that's neither a likely option nor an efficient solution to asking what SafeSport's criteria are.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment


      I always think it's hilarious that people scream about SS being unfair and just banning whoever on hearsay, but then they also scream about SS using independent arbitrators to make sure everything is fair. It's like you can't win.

      I also don't get the hooplah about JS. He was put on the sex registry a long time ago for some pictures found on his hard drive. He served his term, has been on good behavior, has gone to therapy apparently and actively tried to be better. He was removed from the registries, minus FL because its I think permanent. SS has to ban anyone that is on a registry. JS was on the FL registry so he was banned. He appealed, SS sent it to am independent arbitrator to make sure it was fair. They decided he is no longer a threat. He was removed from the list. If you don't want to take your kid to him, then don't. No one says you have to. And I honestly don't really see him as a threat anyways. As opposed to GM, who is pretty much universally known to be a fairly awful person in a lot of ways.

      I did get the impression in the COTH article that the interviewer thought it was all a bit ridiculous.

      Comment


        Nothing in the latest letter to Safe Sport to suggest that "Athletes for Equity in Sport" has any interest in supporting victims of abuse.


        December 9, 2019
        US Center for Safesport
        1385 S Colorado Blvd Ste A-706
        Denver, CO, 80222
        ... To whom it may concern:
        My name is Diane Carney. I am the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc., a new non-profit organization advocating on behalf of athletes, coaches, trainers and others impacted by your organization.
        Please provide me with the following information for statistical purposes:
        1. How does Safesport define and handle situations when a “victim” was in a bar or pub with a fake identification and voluntarily has sexual relations with a 25 year old coach he or she met in that bar or drinking establishment?
        2. What evidence is collected at the time of the alleged assault to verify that the accused and not another sexual partner was the perpetrator?
        3. What is your definition of “Character Witness”?
        4. What is the financial recourse in case an individual is determined to be wrongfully accused?
        5. How does Safesport avoid false reporting in Contentious Custody Cases?
        I am asking for this as a member of USEF. I am required to take training by that organization. I am not requesting victim identifying information, only information for statistical purposes. I look forward to receiving this information. Your prompt attention to my request will be appreciated. Thank you.
        Sincerely,
        Diane Carney
        President, Athletes for Equity in Sport

        Last edited by Rides Again; Dec. 10, 2019, 08:26 AM. Reason: formatting

        Comment


          Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post

          Ok, I'm happy to explain. GM and RG both had multiple actual sexual relationships with underage persons, which in both instances resulted in lifetime bans. These bans were upheld by independent arbitrators outside of the Safe Sport organization who provide outside oversight to ensure fairness in the Safe Sport process.

          JS was not accused by anyone of any kind of abuse or molestation. Instead, he was arrested and convicted of possession of child pornography that was discovered when he took his computer in to be repaired. He was placed on a sex offenders registry for that charge, and after serving his time on that registry he was removed. According to Safe Sport, if you are on a sex offender registry of any kind you are "ineligible to participate." Safe Sport banned JS, but then his case went to an independent arbitrator. In the case of JS, the independent arbitrator--a person unrelated to the Safe Sport organization--overturned the JS ban in a final, binding decision. Let me repeat: It was NOT the decision of Safe Sport to overturn the JS ban. Instead, an independent arbitrator reviewed the case, held hearings, and made the final decision to overturn the ban.
          Thank you for this explanation.

          Comment


            Originally posted by LE View Post
            What does ISWB stand for?
            Did you mean ISWG? That stands for "I Stand With George." Meaning, "I stand with a serial child molester."
            Last edited by SillyHorse; Dec. 10, 2019, 12:27 PM. Reason: Changed "pedophile" to "child molester."
            "She is not fragile like a flower. She is fragile like a bomb."

            Comment


              A quote from Vanessa Brown’s fb solicitation of funds for athletes for Equity Fund.
              “ My support and your support can effect positive change and a system that can truly work to protect our athletes “

              Seems they don’t care about victims, at all

              Comment


                Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post
                I always think it's hilarious that people scream about SS being unfair and just banning whoever on hearsay, but then they also scream about SS using independent arbitrators to make sure everything is fair. It's like you can't win.

                I also don't get the hooplah about JS. He was put on the sex registry a long time ago for some pictures found on his hard drive. He served his term, has been on good behavior, has gone to therapy apparently and actively tried to be better. He was removed from the registries, minus FL because its I think permanent. SS has to ban anyone that is on a registry. JS was on the FL registry so he was banned. He appealed, SS sent it to am independent arbitrator to make sure it was fair. They decided he is no longer a threat. He was removed from the list. If you don't want to take your kid to him, then don't. No one says you have to. And I honestly don't really see him as a threat anyways. As opposed to GM, who is pretty much universally known to be a fairly awful person in a lot of ways.

                I did get the impression in the COTH article that the interviewer thought it was all a bit ridiculous.
                Well said. I find it amusing that the most recent posters to jump into this thread are STILL trying g to sort out if it was only a few victims from the 70’s and 70’s with GM, and have AGAIN repeated the false notion that JS got some sort of a “deal” from Safe Sport, and have AGAIN failed to lock onto the fact that Safe Sport banned JS... and an INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR overturned the ban upon appeal.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by LE View Post

                  Well that's encouraging. :/ Why on earth is there a separate arbitration??? And the fact the USEF reinstated him long before this to judge kids, while he is on a sex offender list is beyond me. The fact there is no allegations of abuse does not mean he has not done anything. This is a major law suit waiting to happen. But thank you for clarifying that.
                  Are u serious?!?!

                  USEF getting sued over Soresi?!?!

                  More like USEF getting sued BY one of a NUMBER of men who were once young boys and were molested and assaulted by GM while USEF was pretending they hadn’t heard the same rumors that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER had heard about GM for years and YEARS.

                  Get.a.clue.

                  Comment


                    Satin Filly I just want to add that although I am no friend of JS, if you read through the Sanctions section of the Safe Sport code, there is a list of considerations that are to be applied when determining the appropriate penalty. Those considerations include (paraphrased): 1) prior history, 2) pattern of behavior, 3) ages of individuals involved, 4) whether or not the person is an ongoing threat to the safety of others 5) whether or not the respondent voluntarily disclosed the offense and cooperated with the Center's process 6) impact of the incident on the sporting community, 7) given the facts whether it is appropriate for the person to continue to participate, and 8) other mitigating and aggravating circumstances.

                    I think if you go down this list I think that it helps make it more clear as to why an arbitrator might have chosen to overturn JS' ban. Because details of each case are private, there may be other factors that are not apparent that worked in JS' favor. As far as seeing a connection between the GM ban being upheld at the same time the JS ban was overturned--the final independent arbitration proceedings for the two cases were entirely separate. Is it possible that the independent arbitrator in the JS case considered JS' cooperation in the case against GM to be a mitigating factor? Possibly so, but there were certainly a number of other unrelated mitigating factors that we do know about.

                    LE, I understand you have questions about the GM case. I think it's really tough for people to swallow that they don't get to know the facts of the case as presented in the hearings so they can make up their own mind. However, there are a lot of good reasons the information from the hearings must remain private. The mandate of Safe Sport is to protect people involved in amateur athletics from sexual and other forms of abuse. Publicizing hearings would in all likelihood turn the Safe Sport process into an extremely damaging smear campaign against accused parties. Putting information out there would also make victims and witnesses easy to identify and set them up for harassment and retaliation. As we have seen from both the RG and GM cases, victims and witnesses are not exactly treated well in the equestrian community. In the end, all Safe Sport has the power to do is to determine fitness to participate in private sporting associations and to remove people who are unfit. It does not exist to inform the community of the sordid details of each case.

                    FWIW, there are at least three names out there of people who were abused by GM. But because the Safe Sport proceedings are private, I think it is foolish to assume that there could not also be more recent victims that came forward. IMO, one single case of child molestation should be enough for us to not want that perpetrator in our sport, but I understand that others might feel differently.

                    I think that when looking at Safe Sport cases from the outside it's important to remember that an accused person can say whatever they want to the public about what they were accused of and even if it is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, Safe Sport is not going to make public statements correcting them for the reasons listed above.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Rides Again View Post
                      Nothing in the latest letter to Safe Sport to suggest that "Athletes for Equity in Sport" has any interest in supporting victims of abuse.


                      December 9, 2019
                      US Center for Safesport
                      1385 S Colorado Blvd Ste A-706
                      Denver, CO, 80222
                      ... To whom it may concern:
                      My name is Diane Carney. I am the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc., a new non-profit organization advocating on behalf of athletes, coaches, trainers and others impacted by your organization.
                      Please provide me with the following information for statistical purposes:
                      1. How does Safesport define and handle situations when a “victim” was in a bar or pub with a fake identification and voluntarily has sexual relations with a 25 year old coach he or she met in that bar or drinking establishment?
                      2. What evidence is collected at the time of the alleged assault to verify that the accused and not another sexual partner was the perpetrator?
                      3. What is your definition of “Character Witness”?
                      4. What is the financial recourse in case an individual is determined to be wrongfully accused?
                      5. How does Safesport avoid false reporting in Contentious Custody Cases?
                      I am asking for this as a member of USEF. I am required to take training by that organization. I am not requesting victim identifying information, only information for statistical purposes. I look forward to receiving this information. Your prompt attention to my request will be appreciated. Thank you.
                      Sincerely,
                      Diane Carney
                      President, Athletes for Equity in Sport
                      Unreal.

                      Since they are all about “due process” and the legal system, perhaps they should do a little research with respect to #4. People get wrongly accused of any number of things ALL THE TIME. Sometimes... they have to pay to hire lawyers to defend themselves.

                      Guess what?

                      They often don’t routinely have anything meaningful in the way of “financial recourse” with respect to all their legal fees, etc.

                      That’s simply life for regular folks. Welcome to the real world.

                      I’m curious now about all 15 letters DC has written. This one is QUITE revealing.

                      Comment


                        I'm willing to bet that anyone who uses the phrase "for statistical purposes" has no idea how to do proper stats analyses.

                        The whole creation of the group is revolting. I hope more of their names are revealed in coming days.
                        https://www.youtube.com/user/supershorty628

                        Comment


                          BeeHoney - well written - thanx.

                          Comment


                            Bold blue is my response


                            Originally posted by LE View Post
                            My head is spinning. I have a few more questions that don't add up:
                            About George Morris: It's stated he bragged about his relationships in his autobiography. Now, if that's true, how did he get around this legally? Surely he consulted a lawyer before publishing his book---things like that would have been checked out for legalities no?

                            I don’t think he would have consulted a lawyer on this.

                            My next question is, did GM continue this behavior? From what I'm reading, it seems that he did this in the 60s70s era. What I am getting at is, pedophiles don't stop with an era. If they are attracted to kids, they continue. So, did he? Did he continue to have relationships with under aged boys up until now? This is where I am still very confused about his ban.

                            Did you ever consider GM admitted to sexual relationships with a 13 year old? The only think I have seen is he said he would fight the ban and no was harmed. I have not seen him or any other banned person publicaly state they did not have sexual relationships with minors.

                            We have 1 person named ( on the sex offender registry), who looks to have benefited from testifying against GM.

                            This is an assumption. I see them as separate cases. JS had his own arbitration hearing and there is nothing public on what evidence was presented.

                            Now, I know there was another accuser who maintained their annonimity, but was it around the same time period? It would have had to have been or criminal charges would have been pressed.

                            Criminal charges are only pressed if someone wants to press charges. Not all victims want to press criminal charges.


                            So, does this sound right? Pedophiles don't stop....so, this is confusing to me. I mean, if you read about Jimmy Williams, it sounded like he continued his behavior up until he passed. To pin this on Morris----something still doesn't sit right with me.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by supershorty628 View Post
                              I'm willing to bet that anyone who uses the phrase "for statistical purposes" has no idea how to do proper stats analyses.
                              I agree. The information requested is not conducive to statistical analysis. Bold blue is my response.

                              1. How does Safesport define and handle situations when a “victim” was in a bar or pub with a fake identification and voluntarily has sexual relations with a 25 year old coach he or she met in that bar or drinking establishment?

                              Is the “victim” the coach’s student? If so then the coach knows the age of the person. If a junior, the coach probably knows the person is under-age.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                                I’m curious now about all 15 letters DC has written. This one is QUITE revealing.
                                The earlier ones are even more eye-opening. The number of "concerned citizens" evolved over the weeks to reflect the number of members of the ISWG group.


                                Week 3 letter. Use (copy) amend or write your own please mail to your Representatives/Senators in Washington & The President.
                                Also
                                Sen Moran ( chairman of the committee
                                overseeing SafeSport)
                                Dirksen Senate Office Bldg.
                                Room 521
                                Washington, DC 20510

                                Dear. ;
                                There are over 7,800 citizens from across America who have grouped together, working hard to get someone in Congress, hopefully you, to realize that Safe Sport policies are deeply flawed. These policies are the opposite of the American justice system, ruining innocent lives, using unproven allegations, issuing LIFETIME BANS and ending a person’s livelihood (of decades) while SS is getting it wrong too often to be ignored by Congress.

                                Safe Sport procedures are disproportionately slanted toward the victim. There is no consideration that an accusation could possibly be wrong or misguided. In addition, the weak level of “determination” or fact-finding of SS investigations, leaves the SS threshold far below what is required in a court of law.
                                This capricious standard creates an environment of fear. Unsubstantiated findings are treated as FACTS, made public; removing the falsely accused from their livelihood and the accused has yet to be able to refute alleged allegations. The accused is assumed guilty.

                                Who thought this much power without checks and balances was a good idea? Concerning the falsely accused, Safe Sport’s INAPPROPRIATE USE OF POWER IS DEVASTATING. The declaration of guilt occurs too frequently, issuing LIFETIME BANS and then reversing the bans after public declaration of sexual misconduct and lifetime ban from sport.

                                In one case, SS issued a LIFETIME BAN and the fact that the incident occurred when the accused was out of the country was not discovered by SS investigators. A reputation built on a lifetime of success is ruined! Reversal occurred after a costly, strenuous defense. Guilty until proven innocent is not good enough in The United States of America. How could SS polices and procedures be considered responsible legislation in this great country founded on the bedrock of due process?

                                Can you explain to me or the 7,700 citizens organized for SS reform, your thinking regarding due process or lack of due process with SS? Would these policies be fair if you were falsely accused?

                                Why Safe Sport was created?
                                The brand Safe Sport, as you may or may not know, was created as a USOC (United States Olympic Committee) brand (2010) to insure issues of sexual abuse were distanced away from the USOC. The purpose was to protect USOC’s image insuring confidence in its donors and advertisers. Also part of the strategy suggested (watchdog group Deadspin 2018 article), SS as a brand gave “cover” for officials testifying to Congress. Referencing Congressional hearing responses to questions, USOC representatives only responded to sexual misconduct questions with the deflection of “that’s a Safe Sport issue” reassuring Congress, donors and television investments “it“ was being corrected as money and medals continued. In 2015, USA Swimming held its own SafeSport conference. [name redacted], who was abused by her swimming coach in the 1980s, was invited to speak there. She described the experience as having little to do with preventing sexual abuse, and mostly about marketing.

                                “It was them using me as a victim show pony,” she said. “There was no significant content on actually preventing sexual abuse, and I left the conference going, ‘Why does this even exist?’” (2015)
                                (7/18 Diana Moskovitz)

                                Please use this awareness of Safe Sport procedures lacking due process to look deeper into what is really happening. This marketing plan (forced to handle serious issues of sexual abuse from flawed legislation created with the gymnastics scandal of September 2016) is not good enough for the accused or the victims. PLEASE REFORM Safe Sport so substantiated claims are handled by law enforcement and the judicial system, not 9 members of the SS board.

                                Thank you,

                                Comment


                                  December 9, 2019
                                  US Center for Safesport
                                  1385 S Colorado Blvd Ste A-706
                                  Denver, CO, 80222
                                  ... To whom it may concern:
                                  My name is Diane Carney. I am the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc., a new non-profit organization advocating on behalf of athletes, coaches, trainers and others impacted by your organization.
                                  Please provide me with the following information for statistical purposes:
                                  1. How does Safesport define and handle situations when a “victim” was in a bar or pub with a fake identification and voluntarily has sexual relations with a 25 year old coach he or she met in that bar or drinking establishment?
                                  Ok, I feel like this should be a question to an advice columnist, followed by, “Asking for a friend”.

                                  It’s a minor detail, but I’m irritated that they don’t know what equity means, nor “statistical”.


                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                                    Well said. I find it amusing that the most recent posters to jump into this thread are STILL trying g to sort out if it was only a few victims from the 70’s and 70’s with GM, and have AGAIN repeated the false notion that JS got some sort of a “deal” from Safe Sport, and have AGAIN failed to lock onto the fact that Safe Sport banned JS... and an INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR overturned the ban upon appeal.
                                    You know it’s not a coincidence, right. It’s the strategy of repeating a false narrative enough times that people start to accept it as fact.
                                    ~Veronica
                                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Rides Again View Post
                                      Nothing in the latest letter to Safe Sport to suggest that "Athletes for Equity in Sport" has any interest in supporting victims of abuse.


                                      December 9, 2019
                                      US Center for Safesport
                                      1385 S Colorado Blvd Ste A-706
                                      Denver, CO, 80222
                                      ... To whom it may concern:
                                      My name is Diane Carney. I am the President of Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc., a new non-profit organization advocating on behalf of athletes, coaches, trainers and others impacted by your organization.
                                      Please provide me with the following information for statistical purposes:
                                      1. How does Safesport define and handle situations when a “victim” was in a bar or pub with a fake identification and voluntarily has sexual relations with a 25 year old coach he or she met in that bar or drinking establishment?
                                      2. What evidence is collected at the time of the alleged assault to verify that the accused and not another sexual partner was the perpetrator?
                                      3. What is your definition of “Character Witness”?
                                      4. What is the financial recourse in case an individual is determined to be wrongfully accused?
                                      5. How does Safesport avoid false reporting in Contentious Custody Cases?
                                      I am asking for this as a member of USEF. I am required to take training by that organization. I am not requesting victim identifying information, only information for statistical purposes. I look forward to receiving this information. Your prompt attention to my request will be appreciated. Thank you.
                                      Sincerely,
                                      Diane Carney
                                      President, Athletes for Equity in Sport


                                      Well. This is an oddly specific list of questions.... especially for “statistical analysis.”

                                      Comment


                                        Who received a lifetime ban for an incident that occurred while they were "out of the country"?

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by RegentLion View Post



                                          Well. This is an oddly specific list of questions.... especially for “statistical analysis.”
                                          The bar scenario seemed pretty specific to me as well.

                                          Comment

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