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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

    Agree with this. The PROCESS (as in, the standard operating procedures, not the process for specific cases) should be completely transparent to the public and stakeholders should maybe even have a say in that process. But after that, we need to trust the process and outcomes as it pertains to evaluating specific cases. Plus...disclosing that there had been more than one victim (as someone else suggested) shouldn't change the way the public forms their opinions about sexual predators! ffs.
    The process is pretty transparent. A flow chart has been posted numerous times.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

      When it’s peer reviewed I’ll care. The first link is straight opinion with zero science. By their logic either my or my brother should be gay.
      I was simply pointing out that the "experts" are listed in the article. Just because they hadn't published their results in a peer reviewed journal yet doesn't mean they aren't experts.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

        And once again, we have the straw man argument. I've read every post on this thread and I don't see anyone asking to know the names of victims. Do you?

        Look, I'm not here to defend GM. In my own mind, given the rumors, the wild tales in his book, and the care USEF would take with someone of his stature, I lean toward suspecting he is guilty. (Not that my own personal hunch should count for much, but there it is).

        I would just advocate that people engage in this discussion reasonably, fairly, and accurately, taking care not to misconstrue each other's arguments or bully them for raising questions. Does that seem like a reasonable goal?
        Go read Facebook. It's all over and blatant.

        I should be more explicit: "For those who are --not on this thread of course--asking to see evidence...etc."

        We know from the RG thread that there are a lot of angry Facebookers and members of the FB Safesport Reform crowd that are reading these threads.

        There were lots of people asking for details here on COTH, too, on the RG thread when that news broke. LOTS of them. Don't have time to go back now and re-read all of the posts here, but I'm sure I can find something somewhere with someone wishing we had more details on the evidence.

        I do agree with your goal (that people engage in this discussion reasonably, fairly, and accurately, taking care not to misconstrue each other's arguments or bully them for raising questions), and fail to see where I stepped out of line? I named no names. I tagged no poster. I quoted not a post. I read every sentence of the preceeding posts, and all of the RG thread as it happened.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

          The process is pretty transparent. A flow chart has been posted numerous times.
          Yes, that is what I'm saying. The process should be transparent (and it is) but the details of cases should not be.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

            Yes, that is what I'm saying. The process should be transparent (and it is) but the details of cases should not be.
            Ohhhh gotcha! And OMG your “like clinics” post

            And details shouldn’t be because the horse world is too small.

            Comment


            • Jonathan Devine/Soresi has not just started singing because he got caught with child pornography. His allegations go way back.

              It is absolutely common for victims of childhood sexual abuse to become abusers, which is why it is so so important to start ending the cycle.
              Last edited by ladyj79; Aug. 6, 2019, 09:31 PM.
              Let me apologize in advance.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by farmpony84 View Post
                If you read what I said I was actually looking at both sides.

                "I don't want to assume he is guilty nor do I want to assume the victim is lying. I only hope that there is evidence that can be provided to prove these facts and if it is true, then I hope the victim can find closure."

                "​​​​​​​The victim may truly be an innocent who was afraid, embarrassed, shocked, or confused. They may have decided with the way things are now that by coming forward - they can loan others the strength to do so as well."

                You chose to read what you wanted to. You chose to incriminate me without any facts.

                I am saddened by these allegations. True or False - I am saddened that it may have happened.
                If you knew ANYTHING about GHM, you wouldn't be so shocked by this. And if you took the SS training, then you would also know that it covers bullying and verbal abuse, something GHM pretty much prides himself on, and is famous for. Just try being a blond girl riding in one of his clinics. and maybe carry a few extra pounds. He may be a great trainer, but he is also a verbally abusive bully

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kirbydog View Post

                  If you knew ANYTHING about GHM, you wouldn't be so shocked by this. And if you took the SS training, then you would also know that it covers bullying and verbal abuse, something GHM pretty much prides himself on, and is famous for. Just try being a blond girl riding in one of his clinics. and maybe carry a few extra pounds. He may be a great trainer, but he is also a verbally abusive bully
                  She’s from the AQHA/breed world and feels compelled to comment without reading or asking questions first.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
                    Jonathan Devine/Scoresi has not just started singing because he got caught with child pornography. His allegations go way back.

                    It is absolutely common for victims of childhood sexual abuse to become abusers, which is why it is so so important to start ending the cycle.
                    Yeah I just vaguely remember child porn.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kirbydog View Post

                      If you knew ANYTHING about GHM, you wouldn't be so shocked by this. And if you took the SS training, then you would also know that it covers bullying and verbal abuse, something GHM pretty much prides himself on, and is famous for. Just try being a blond girl riding in one of his clinics. and maybe carry a few extra pounds. He may be a great trainer, but he is also a verbally abusive bully
                      One of the interesting things to me is that, as I understand it, SS was indeed supposed to cover a range of behaviors that include sexual misconduct, verbal abuse and bullying. And yet all of the investigations and suspensions that I have heard of, regardless of sport, revolve around sexual misconduct. I'm guessing that's because it's the most black-and-white version of misconduct? A bit less in the "eye of the beholder" than something like the difference between forceful coaching and bullying?

                      Comment


                      • Is there a transscript of the hearing?
                        Aefvue Farm Ft.Lauderdale

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                          When it’s peer reviewed I’ll care. The first link is straight opinion with zero science. By their logic either me or my brother should be gay.
                          Denali6298

                          It’s not exactly science to make a sweeping conclusion based on one, personal, observation: “Neither my sibling nor I am gay, despite having a gay parent.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Andrew View Post
                            Is there a transscript of the hearing?
                            Transcripts are never available when minors are involved. Ask George. He might have one.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post
                              Denali6298

                              It’s not exactly science to make a sweeping conclusion based on one, personal, observation: “Neither my sibling nor I am gay, despite having a gay parent.”
                              Well if someone is going to present me with “science” I’ll counter it with “science”. Lots of “science” can prove things. Read Backlash. Lots of “science” there.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MHM View Post

                                I believe he was suspended by the USEF for quite a long time. If he was off the suspension list recently, I was not aware of it. I think he was still teaching/training at a barn somewhere, but could not attend USEF shows during that period.
                                Did USEF feel that a suspension would cure him of his taste for kiddie porn? Did they think it was OK to allow him on show grounds, where there are great numbers of children, because time had passed since he was arrested?

                                Christ on a raft, how can they be such imbeciles? It took Safe Sport to ban him. It boggles the mind.

                                I can only find his current suspension on the USEF list.
                                Last edited by skydy; Aug. 6, 2019, 05:42 PM. Reason: To Add

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                  She’s from the AQHA/breed world and feels compelled to comment without reading or asking questions first.
                                  What on earth is with your attitude? I don't think I've seen you say a nice thing to anyone that isn't a victim of abuse not on this board.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Darkwave View Post

                                    One of the interesting things to me is that, as I understand it, SS was indeed supposed to cover a range of behaviors that include sexual misconduct, verbal abuse and bullying. And yet all of the investigations and suspensions that I have heard of, regardless of sport, revolve around sexual misconduct. I'm guessing that's because it's the most black-and-white version of misconduct? A bit less in the "eye of the beholder" than something like the difference between forceful coaching and bullying?
                                    My understanding is that bullying is supposed to be handled by the NGBs.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

                                      On what basis did you say that SafeSport has been quick to back down when someone puts up a fight?

                                      I’m assuming they anticipate the appeal and don’t hand down a lifetime ban unless they think it will be upheld on appeal.
                                      I agree about not issuing a sanction that wouldn't uphold appeal, but...

                                      I said they are quick to back down because when speaking with some of the vocal SafeSport critics with firsthand investigation experience, I was told some really interesting stories. They may be all hearsay. I hate to repeat them here if they are hearsay.

                                      One incidence I can substantiate is Luis Rodriguez's removal from the list:

                                      https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ns/1597259001/

                                      SS issued its ban after the trial was concluded. When he paid to share the trial transcript with SS, they dropped his ban. Surely they knew the trial results prior to issuing the ban, so what was their reasoning on applying the sanction only to reverse their stance so quickly?

                                      To be clear, I'm 100% in support of SafeSport. I've just become skeptical of their ability to maintain their position if serious pressure is put on them.
                                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

                                        Sort of like clinics!
                                        I choked on my water.

                                        A very serious subject, but the irony was just too good...
                                        thebaybondgirl.wordpress.com

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Darkwave View Post

                                          One of the interesting things to me is that, as I understand it, SS was indeed supposed to cover a range of behaviors that include sexual misconduct, verbal abuse and bullying. And yet all of the investigations and suspensions that I have heard of, regardless of sport, revolve around sexual misconduct. I'm guessing that's because it's the most black-and-white version of misconduct? A bit less in the "eye of the beholder" than something like the difference between forceful coaching and bullying?
                                          I would think of them as two completely different things. Plus if safe sport has limited resources, I think it’s safe to say they should be concentrating those resources on investigating allegations of sexual misconduct before they worry about bullying and the like. If they are swamped, they probably need to prioritize one type of investigation over the other.

                                          I would say the comments about how things were different back then, and times have changed, etc., etc. might actually apply to different styles of teaching now compared to decades ago. The more military style of instruction that was the basis for lots of trainers back in the day would be considered way over the top by many people these days. So that topic seems to be a bit more open to discussion and interpretation.

                                          Comment

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