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George Morris on the SS list

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    Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

    Missy Clark is as fine a human being and trainer as you will find in this or any sport. But, you know...carry on.
    But she is openly showing she has no integrity and supports a known child molester. But she trains really well so you know... carry on.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Capall View Post
      .

      But she is openly showing she has no integrity and supports a known child molester. But she trains really well so you know... carry on.
      Exactly, Capall.

      Suzie Hutchinson was my idol as a child. I wanted to be her. Her position is wrong. I might understand why she needs to believe what she believes, but it is still completely wrong. And immoral. And destructive.

      Robert Dover is wrong. His opinion is wrong for the sport and wrong for humanity. It is callous and juvenile. And destructive.

      These people were literally my icons for decades.

      Why on earth would I excuse anyone who supports sexually assaulting minors? Both privately and publicly? To the extent that these people and select others are actively fundraising to support child molesters.


      That's what's insane, and being a good trainer of "luxury sport pets" is hardly a legitimate reason to excuse actively and vehemently defending the continued sexual assault and exploitation of children.
      Let me apologize in advance.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Capall View Post

        But she is openly showing she has no integrity and supports a known child molester. But she trains really well so you know... carry on.
        No, she is donating to a fund that helps all athletes of any sport be able to afford to face their accusers. I personally deposed for someone that had been wrongfully accused. It was not a sexual abuse accusation, but none the less was in the category of safe sport. It could have ruined their business and livelihood. Those people need support. Not all cases are sexual abuse cases, and some certainly are unjustly accused. to donate to a fund that offers support so folks can legally present their case is hardly showing that one has no integrity or supports a known child molester. Don't put words in my mouth.
        www.midatlanticeq.com
        Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
        November 11-13, 2016

        Comment


          Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

          No, she is donating to a fund that helps all athletes of any sport be able to afford to face their accusers. I personally deposed for someone that had been wrongfully accused. It was not a sexual abuse accusation, but none the less was in the category of safe sport. It could have ruined their business and livelihood. Those people need support. Not all cases are sexual abuse cases, and some certainly are unjustly accused. to donate to a fund that offers support so folks can legally present their case is hardly showing that one has no integrity or supports a known child molester. Don't put words in my mouth.
          So- the process worked. If people were deposed, there was. Enough corroboration at some point for it to move forward, not sufficient for a suspension or perhaps totally exonerated. The process working doesn’t seem to be enough.
          Come to the dark side, we have cookies

          Comment


            Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

            No, she is donating to a fund that helps all athletes of any sport be able to afford to face their accusers. I personally deposed for someone that had been wrongfully accused. It was not a sexual abuse accusation, but none the less was in the category of safe sport. It could have ruined their business and livelihood. Those people need support. Not all cases are sexual abuse cases, and some certainly are unjustly accused. to donate to a fund that offers support so folks can legally present their case is hardly showing that one has no integrity or supports a known child molester. Don't put words in my mouth.
            I'm confused about what "deposed" means in this context. That there was a civil case (in court) for which you sat for a deposition as a witness?
            ~Veronica
            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

            Comment


              Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

              Exactly, Capall.

              Suzie Hutchinson was my idol as a child. I wanted to be her. Her position is wrong. I might understand why she needs to believe what she believes, but it is still completely wrong. And immoral. And destructive.

              Robert Dover is wrong. His opinion is wrong for the sport and wrong for humanity. It is callous and juvenile. And destructive.

              These people were literally my icons for decades.

              Why on earth would I excuse anyone who supports sexually assaulting minors? Both privately and publicly? To the extent that these people and select others are actively fundraising to support child molesters.


              That's what's insane, and being a good trainer of "luxury sport pets" is hardly a legitimate reason to excuse actively and vehemently defending the continued sexual assault and exploitation of children.
              This is the time that I'm glad I'm an amateur on the sidelines. I want to be able to "call a spade a spade" and publicly stand against people who sexually molest children. I want to be cosmopolitan enough and adult enough that I can empathize with people who have been victimized. I got that by being outside of the horse world (as well as learning some great life lessons within horse world). And now I am so glad that I don't have so much to lose that I have to wonder if I should STFU even if I have a sneaking suspicion that my idols have feet of clay.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


                mvp, you don't have to be an amateur! Rodrigo Pessoa stood up!

                These people? Man they are nothing. They do not represent anyone but their own gross little circle.
                Let me apologize in advance.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                  No, she is donating to a fund that helps all athletes of any sport be able to afford to face their accusers. I personally deposed for someone that had been wrongfully accused. It was not a sexual abuse accusation, but none the less was in the category of safe sport. It could have ruined their business and livelihood. Those people need support. Not all cases are sexual abuse cases, and some certainly are unjustly accused. to donate to a fund that offers support so folks can legally present their case is hardly showing that one has no integrity or supports a known child molester. Don't put words in my mouth.
                  You deposed someone as part as a Safesport investigation? REALLY? As someone who has actually dealt directly with Safesport and been part of an investigation, I am really curious. Did you depose a respondent or a claimant? At what point in the Safesport process did this occur? I am not asking for any identifying information at all. Are you claiming that depositions are part of the Safesport process?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by oneequestrienne View Post

                    You deposed someone as part as a Safesport investigation? REALLY? As someone who has actually dealt directly with Safesport and been part of an investigation, I am really curious. Did you depose a respondent or a claimant? At what point in the Safesport process did this occur? I am not asking for any identifying information at all. Are you claiming that depositions are part of the Safesport process?
                    Perhaps I used an incorrect description. I did not depose anyone. I spent a half hour answering questions. Short of that I don't wish to reveal much else about my experience.
                    www.midatlanticeq.com
                    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                    November 11-13, 2016

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                      Perhaps I used an incorrect description. I did not depose anyone. I spent a half hour answering questions. Short of that I don't wish to reveal much else about my experience.
                      Half and hour answering questions and you don't want to reveal much else.... my first interview was 4 hours and people want all the gory details including my name and what occurred.

                      Comment


                        Donated funds are used to pay for attorneys, lobbyists, and other resources required for the dedicated effort to reform amateur sports’ disciplinary processes as well as the current inequity in SafeSport policy and procedures.
                        This does not lead me to believe it's just people that want to make sure an accused has access to representation. They are paying lobbyists, and dedicated to trying to reform the process which seems to have worked as intended. If they're on the list of donors for that, they're off the list of decent human beings.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post

                          This does not lead me to believe it's just people that want to make sure an accused has access to representation. They are paying lobbyists, and dedicated to trying to reform the process which seems to have worked as intended. If they're on the list of donors for that, they're off the list of decent human beings.
                          Totally disagree with you. Nobody wants predators to not be addressed. But everybody that has been accused of anything should have the rights to defend themselves. I was personally a victim of a predator trainer at 13 years old. Nobody wants evil perps prosecuted more than I do. But people that want reform to the process are not evil. And to label someone vil because they donated to a group looking for a better system is pretty closed minded.
                          www.midatlanticeq.com
                          Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                          November 11-13, 2016

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Keep it Simple View Post

                            Half and hour answering questions and you don't want to reveal much else.... my first interview was 4 hours and people want all the gory details including my name and what occurred.
                            And your point is????
                            www.midatlanticeq.com
                            Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                            November 11-13, 2016

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                              Totally disagree with you. Nobody wants predators to not be addressed. But everybody that has been accused of anything should have the rights to defend themselves. I was personally a victim of a predator trainer at 13 years old. Nobody wants evil perps prosecuted more than I do. But people that want reform to the process are not evil. And to label someone vil because they donated to a group looking for a better system is pretty closed minded.
                              So now we are back to the same question we've been at so many times


                              What reforms of the process would you like to see?

                              How will your reforms better address keeping predators away from young people than the current system?

                              (because again, reform is a different goal than funding representation for accused persons within the system)

                              I feel like these discussions are so slippery, and the only suitable solution for some people is that things just return to the status quo, but that just isn't going to happen.
                              Let me apologize in advance.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                                Totally disagree with you. Nobody wants predators to not be addressed. But everybody that has been accused of anything should have the rights to defend themselves. I was personally a victim of a predator trainer at 13 years old. Nobody wants evil perps prosecuted more than I do. But people that want reform to the process are not evil. And to label someone vil because they donated to a group looking for a better system is pretty closed minded.
                                Have you read the site? I have no issue with anyone accused being able to defend themselves. Nobody in Safe Sport is denying anyone that opportunity. Please show me where anyone was told that they were accused and banned without investigation or the opportunity for appeal, because that doesn't seem to have happened.

                                The issue I have with these people funding this "reform group" is that there hasn't even been a single suggestion of an improved process. The only thing they seem capable of is whining about due process for the accused and accusations of some kind of weaponized false reporting which there has also been no evidence that anyone has been banned due to a false report.

                                Please point us to where the supporters of this group have made any viable suggestion for improvement of the process, or where it states that they are simply funding legal fees for these mythical falsely accused, indigent trainers that are being driven out of the industry by jealous competitors bringing malicious claims.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                                  Totally disagree with you. Nobody wants predators to not be addressed. But everybody that has been accused of anything should have the rights to defend themselves. I was personally a victim of a predator trainer at 13 years old. Nobody wants evil perps prosecuted more than I do. But people that want reform to the process are not evil. And to label someone vil because they donated to a group looking for a better system is pretty closed minded.
                                  With all due respect, I think the folks wanting reform of SafeSport have failed in a couple of senses.

                                  1. They have not definitively distanced themselves from the less-noble I Stand With George folks, or others in the earlier Rob Gage or Jimmy Williams' scenarios who did everything from shame victims to trot out the "it was a different time" excuse, to "you all killed him," to cries for Due Process without knowing a whole lot about either the SafeSport process, nor anything offered by the justice system.... The list could get longer, but I'm sure you can see my point: It's hard to distinguish people who want their guy to remain well-respected, at all costs, from people who honest-to-God want to go to bat for victims past and future.


                                  2. None of these folks has suggested any substantive reforms, nor engaged in a detailed and knowledgable discussion of the SafeSport process and where it goes wrong.

                                  Because of this muddiness on both counts, I can't tell what peoples' motives are. Perhaps some day, when victims of sex crimes regularly get way more credit and help from people, from society and from institutions, I'll believe you when you say that "no one wants predators to not be addressed." But we aren't collectively there yet.

                                  Speaking to your point about the accuseds' rights-- Those folks are given a chance to present their side of things in a SafeSport investigation, right?
                                  The armchair saddler
                                  Politically Pro-Cat

                                  Comment


                                    Plus... no need to raise money for” the accused to have access to representation “, just call BN, she does it for free.

                                    Comment


                                      What I think is most interesting, and no one seems to have really pointed it out (or caught on?), is that there are TWO equestrian-inspired groups going after SS and soliciting donations. Both need astronomical amounts of money for their goals, and yet they've chosen to split their donor base in two:

                                      United Athletes = Safe Sport Overhaul FB Group = Kathy Hobstetter: [edit]

                                      Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc = ISWG FB Group = Diane Carney: [edit]


                                      I am not on any bandwagon that's going up against SS; I'm just befuddled that these people chose to make their cause more difficult to achieve, rather than come up with a plan to work together towards a common goal. Nor is anyone publicly addressing the fact that they have two competing entities occupying the space of one incredibly niche effort.

                                      Typical horse industry people. We should not be allowed to run anything.
                                      Last edited by Moderator 1; Dec. 7, 2019, 09:06 AM. Reason: GoFundMe links
                                      EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by mvp View Post

                                        Speaking to your point about the accuseds' rights-- Those folks are given a chance to present their side of things in a SafeSport investigation, right?
                                        You are correct. Respondents are given the opportunity to give their side during the investigation as well as know the identity of those who reported them. For an investigation to move towards the point of sanctions, there must be named individuals who will stand by their statements with their name. It is part of the process as outlined by Safesport’s published policy. I also know this because I was a witness who remained anonymous in another case due to fear of repercussions. To be clear, there were multiple other witnesses who came forward and stood by their statements thus allowing their abuser to know their names. It’s a huge risk.

                                        I am in awe of the victims who had the strength not to remain anonymous in any case. In my case and every other one. Safesport asked me a number of times to not be anonymous. I finally said that I would come forward if the case could not be successful without me. Fortunately for me, those other brave victims were enough. I was shocked by the disgusting public blowback and victim shaming which happened after the RG suicide, which continues to this day as others like GM are banned. My immediate response was to call Safesport and make my statement official.

                                        Elitism certainly plays a part in the massive denial going on in H/J land but so does fear. Fear of wondering who will be the next one called out. They portray it as a “witch hunt” but the truth is that there are so many who know they could be next, not because they are innocent but because they know what they did and thought they got away with it.
                                        Last edited by oneequestrienne; Dec. 6, 2019, 08:41 AM. Reason: Typo

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by dags View Post
                                          What I think is most interesting, and no one seems to have really pointed it out (or caught on?), is that there are TWO equestrian-inspired groups going after SS and soliciting donations. Both need astronomical amounts of money for their goals, and yet they've chosen to split their donor base in two:

                                          United Athletes = Safe Sport Overhaul FB Group = Kathy Hobstetter: [edit]

                                          Athletes for Equity in Sport Inc = ISWG FB Group = Diane Carney: [edit]


                                          I am not on any bandwagon that's going up against SS; I'm just befuddled that these people chose to make their cause more difficult to achieve, rather than come up with a plan to work together towards a common goal. Nor is anyone publicly addressing the fact that they have two competing entities occupying the space of one incredibly niche effort.

                                          Typical horse industry people. We should not be allowed to run anything.
                                          It would be funny if it weren’t so sad and typical of the equestrian world. I’ve been trying to find a link between the two entities but I guess I’m not the only one who can’t find any. Another reason why they will fail.
                                          Last edited by Moderator 1; Dec. 7, 2019, 09:07 AM.

                                          Comment

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