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  • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

    Yes, this point was made with respect to the Robert Gage situation as well. It is actually healthy that people are uncomfortable putting blind trust in institutions that conduct most of their work in secret.

    I think if SS said, our investigation disclosed 15 underage victims of GM over a timespan of 20 years, the defenders would shut up fairly quickly.
    No they wouldn’t. They’d say they had an ax to grind or some such nonsense.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bird4416 View Post
      GM has been quoted as saying he’s had over 10,000 sex partners. If he had sex everyday with a different person, that’s over 27 years of every day a new partner. That’s mind boggling. It’s not hard to believe that some of them weren’t of age or willing. How did he find time for horses?
      Oh,expand your horizons a little. Think of groups. :-)
      *****
      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

        In some of the social media posts concerning Rob Gage, a woman was stating that’s how it was. She then told a story about how she walked in on JW having sex with a junior rider.

        The horse world is way to small to give out those details because someone some where will know who and bet, that name will be on social media. People still are commenting the SS killed Rob Gage despite HR holding an informal QA about it. Another person has a photo from 2017 that makes you go WTF? I’ve seen it. That person thankfully sent it to the appropriate people.
        Agree with this. The PROCESS (as in, the standard operating procedures, not the process for specific cases) should be completely transparent to the public and stakeholders should maybe even have a say in that process. But after that, we need to trust the process and outcomes as it pertains to evaluating specific cases. Plus...disclosing that there had been more than one victim (as someone else suggested) shouldn't change the way the public forms their opinions about sexual predators! ffs.

        Comment


        • I think it's important to remember the incredible, unequaled power GHM has wielded in the sport over several decades. And not just on some local circuit. On the US Olympic team. In multimillion-dollar deals. Even in other countries and their programs. I read about GHM's ban in the Toronto Star this morning. It's global sports news.

          They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. GHM had the ability to completely destroy, not just *aspirations* but established careers.

          Given that power. Given the absolute tar-and-feather victim shaming job done on AK and HR when it became known that they were among JW and RG's respective victims...

          The person or persons who have come forward against GHM are possibly the bravest in our industry.

          I seriously doubt it was done on a whim, or out of spite. Who would risk everything to accuse the man known as "God H Morris" without having something really solid?

          Likewise, it has been proven time and again that Safesport does not hand down lifetime bans based on rumors, anonymous single-source allegations.

          For those who are, once again, asking to see evidence, to know who the victims are. Think now, about what you are asking for. Think of just how horrific the reaction will be. Think of the abuse those people will have to endure at the hands (and keyboards) of GHM's supporters. It will be worse than JW or RG to the power of 10.

          I think their right to safety trumps your curiosity.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Midge View Post

            Oh,expand your horizons a little. Think of groups. :-)
            Sort of like clinics!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

              I'm sorry you're not comfortable with what the science seems to show. Kind of reminds me of the Republicans with global warming. "We don't like it; therefore it can't be true!"

              Here is a 2019 article that reaches the same conclusion: https://www.timescolonist.com/life/h...ght-1.23644975
              So from your Q/A opinion piece you’re telling me male pattern baldness is from the environment? And that’s not a scientific study. Try again.

              Comment


              • Davignport - From Mary Phelps personal FB page

                "Robert Dover speaks. Thank you for standing up and taking a stand. Safe Sport needs an overhaul - period."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                  In some of the social media posts concerning Rob Gage, a woman was stating that’s how it was. She then told a story about how she walked in on JW having sex with a junior rider.

                  The horse world is way to small to give out those details because someone some where will know who and bet, that name will be on social media. People still are commenting the SS killed Rob Gage despite HR holding an informal QA about it. Another person has a photo from 2017 that makes you go WTF? I’ve seen it. That person thankfully sent it to the appropriate people.
                  It’s a delicate line for sure. But I also think it could have helped to avoid what happened next: the victims ended up having to waive their anonymity completely and subject themselves to the full backlash of deniers just to correct the misinformation and be believed.

                  A basic summary as I mentioned above would have shielded them much better.
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  "I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream." --Vincent Van Gogh

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                    I'm sorry you're not comfortable with what the science seems to show. Kind of reminds me of the Republicans with global warming. "We don't like it; therefore it can't be true!"

                    Here is a 2019 article that reaches the same conclusion: https://www.timescolonist.com/life/h...ght-1.23644975
                    Keep in mind what is meant by "environment' in genetic studies. It usually means "anything that is not attributed to DNA sequences". Thus, this includes epigenetic phenomena, uterine environment, anything that affects upregulation or downregulation of genes, nutrition, contaminants, etc., etc., etc. Social environment is a part of overall "environment", but no one knows how much (if at all) it's relevant in sexual orientation. it's not a correct reading of the science to assume that everything not accounted for by "genes" equals "how you were raised".

                    Science does however support @evilc 123's position.

                    Back to the topic of the thread.

                    Comment


                    • At least now they are finally mad at SS and not the USEF LOL
                      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                        And that guy he asked is really, really good looking! So if GM didn't go after the super good looking dude, he wouldn't have gone after anyone.

                        It disappoints me that Dover would do this.
                        Sheilah
                        Robert D has to say that guy is good looking; “that guy” is his husband. I believe he meant that as tongue in cheek but it was a poorly thought out comment, as was his whole defense of GM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                          What I've learned about the appeal process from the fallout after RG is that SafeSport tends to be pretty quick to back down anymore when someone puts up a good fight.

                          I have no doubt in my mind GM will have this overturned, regardless of the "truth," given his stature and seemingly endless access to the resources of his supporters.

                          I hope I'm wrong, not because I want him to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but because overturning it would be about the worst thing that could happen in terms of SafeSport earning respect from the equestrian industry. As I've mentioned in the RG thread, "permanent ineligibility" from SafeSport has done little to slow down business for an alarming number of parties on the list, with many of those banned still actively involved in programs that train children. Overturning GM's suspension would further perpetuate misconceptions that SafeSport operates under false information.
                          I’m wondering, Jonathan has a conviction for child pornography. Most people with convicts are straight up banned. Maybe him being on the suspension list rather than the ban has to do with him singing like a canary about GM? Maybe it won’t be overturned so easily.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

                            Sort of like clinics!
                            Ha! Exactly!!!!
                            *****
                            You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by caffeinated View Post

                              I think PART (not all) of the backlash here is because people want to believe that they'd be able to spot an abuser. That they'd prevent it, that there's something obvious about them. That it would never happen to them or their family because they're attentive. This is the origin of "stranger danger" and the idea of creeper perverts.

                              {I have cut out the rest of this quote until the following sentence}

                              I also know there is an extremely good chance a person I know who experienced mental/emotional abuse at the hands of GM, is very likely to be reading this thread. If he is, I'm thinking of you right now and hope you're OK. And I really hope all this commentary is not hurting you.

                              I am shaking while I am typing this. Me. Me. I am the adult who has always been so conscientious about anyone around my child. Me. Me. I allowed my child to be emotionally and psychologically abused by someone in the horse industry and got sucked into the abuse as well. It’s a long story. The repercussions are still there for both my child and me and I will never again trust any trainer. I am angry. I was smart, I was knowledgeable, I was aware, I was involved and it STILL HAPPENED. I hate myself and especially this trainer for what happened. I. Hate. Her. No one warned us and after we left, we had so many people approach us and tell us what happened to them. This rabid victim shaming that’s going on right now is one of the reasons we will never report her to Safe Sport. That and the fact that she’s loosing her business and can’t hold on the clients.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                                What I've learned about the appeal process from the fallout after RG is that SafeSport tends to be pretty quick to back down anymore when someone puts up a good fight.

                                I have no doubt in my mind GM will have this overturned, regardless of the "truth," given his stature and seemingly endless access to the resources of his supporters.

                                I hope I'm wrong, not because I want him to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but because overturning it would be about the worst thing that could happen in terms of SafeSport earning respect from the equestrian industry. As I've mentioned in the RG thread, "permanent ineligibility" from SafeSport has done little to slow down business for an alarming number of parties on the list, with many of those banned still actively involved in programs that train children. Overturning GM's suspension would further perpetuate misconceptions that SafeSport operates under false information.
                                @Texarkana

                                On what basis did you say that SafeSport has been quick to back down when someone puts up a fight?

                                I’m assuming they anticipate the appeal and don’t hand down a lifetime ban unless they think it will be upheld on appeal.
                                Last edited by YankeeDuchess; Aug. 6, 2019, 04:55 PM.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by DarkBayUnicorn View Post

                                  For those who are, once again, asking to see evidence, to know who the victims are. .
                                  And once again, we have the straw man argument. I've read every post on this thread and I don't see anyone asking to know the names of victims. Do you?

                                  Look, I'm not here to defend GM. In my own mind, given the rumors, the wild tales in his book, and the care USEF would take with someone of his stature, I lean toward suspecting he is guilty. (Not that my own personal hunch should count for much, but there it is).

                                  I would just advocate that people engage in this discussion reasonably, fairly, and accurately, taking care not to misconstrue each other's arguments or bully them for raising questions. Does that seem like a reasonable goal?

                                  Comment


                                  • I don't think they would ban someone of such stature as GM if they didn't feel they had a really, really, solid case. I'm sure whatever the NYT is cooking up won't help his case either.
                                    Last edited by Jealoushe; Aug. 6, 2019, 04:48 PM.
                                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                                      I'm sorry you're not comfortable with what the science seems to show. Kind of reminds me of the Republicans with global warming. "We don't like it; therefore it can't be true!"

                                      Here is a 2019 article that reaches the same conclusion: https://www.timescolonist.com/life/h...ght-1.23644975

                                      And another recent one:
                                      https://www.latimes.com/science/scie...007-story.html

                                      "But experts said the results -- as yet unpublished in a peer-reviewed journal -- offer preliminary new evidence that a man’s genetic inheritance is only one influence on his sexual orientation. Through the epigenome, the results suggest, some facet of life experience likely also primes a man for same-sex attraction.

                                      Over a person’s lifetime, myriad environmental factors -- nutrition, poverty, a mother’s love, education, exposure to toxic chemicals -- all help shape the person he will become."

                                      What experts??

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by seriously? View Post


                                        What experts??
                                        Click link. Read article.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

                                          Click link. Read article.
                                          When it’s peer reviewed I’ll care. The first link is straight opinion with zero science. By their logic either me or my brother should be gay.

                                          Comment

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