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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by Midge View Post

    On the SS Honest Conversation page, someone listed all the ways Ashley Wagner was culpable. Going to a party without telling her parents, Underage drinking, not planning on how to get back to her hotel. and how she and the man got their signals crossed and she was so drunk she might not have remembered inviting him to her room. Then later in the thread wonders who was blaming the victim? She got lots of likes for that.
    Wow. I haven’t found that page yet, and am not part of the “reform Safe Sport” group. Just seeing the comments on the Chronicles article last night, and the posts on the personal page of a few friends is enough to make me weep.

    At this point... people need to stop. Stop defending folks and trashing victims when you really DON’T know what the investigations revealed. It’s stunning. Have a thoughtful discussion about concerns over the Safe Sport process, but STOP with the SICK defense of people who have sexually exploited minors... just because you admire their accomplishments in sport and don’t want it to be true. Big names were put on this list because there was a mountain of evidence and testimony that it WAS true. People need to remove their craniums from their rectums.

    Comment


    • So Robert Dover and Mary Phelps are coming out in support of George Morris. They are blaming SafeSport.

      I think I would be more careful about saying stuff if I was a horse professional. He didn't get banned on a whim.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post

        Wait. What? That doesn't even make any sense.

        The Boy Scouts has a code of conduct that adult volunteers must abide by. If they don't, they are removed from the organization, i.e. banned from any direct involvement with the private organization. Exactly like violations of Safe Sport rules can get an equestrian professional banned from any direct involvement with USEF. It's the same thing.
        I think what the poster was reacting to was the statement that s private club can ban “anyone” without legal repercussions. The Boy Scouts tried to ban gays from serving as leaders and even, I think, as Scouts. They lost in court.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

          Homosexuality is completely separate from pedophilia. Also, you can’t “raise a homosexual.” You are or you aren’t.
          Yeah good grief... the other poster's quote on "grooming and training boys to be homosexual" is grossly inaccurate. Sexuality shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread as it is entirely irrelevant. You don't walk around talking about just how straight the men who molest little girls are. Come on.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

            Wow. I haven’t found that page yet, and am not part of the “reform Safe Sport” group. Just seeing the comments on the Chronicles article last night, and the posts on the personal page of a few friends is enough to make me weep..
            If you want to know why, 'What were you wearing?' is still asked,that page will tell you all you need to know.
            *****
            You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

              Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.
              But the point is, you may never see the "evidence". We do not have a right to know the details about a sexual offense. To expose survivors to the backlash of people who either don't believe them or don't care is to subject them to repeated and unnecessary trauma. Look at what has happened to Hilary Ridland (just read some of the comments that people made on her personal Facebook page!) or the comment that "Andrew" posted about Anne Kursinski on the Chronical of the Horse Facebook post about GM. I'm surprised that anyone is willing to come forward, especially if the person they are talking about is revered in the industry. Why are so many people are willling to doubt survivors than the people they accused, even thought they have no idea who is lying?

              The saddest thing I've read in all the reports about sexual abuse is the father of one of the girls who was a victim in the Nassar case. Her father committed suicide when he realized his daughter had been a victim since age 6 and he had not believed her. In fact, since Nassar was a family friend, he had insisted that she apologize to him.

              I'm not saying that we should take every accusation as the Gospel, but the excessive attacks on victims is completely unwarranted.
              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Escada View Post
                So Robert Dover and Mary Phelps are coming out in support of George Morris. They are blaming SafeSport.

                I think I would be more careful about saying stuff if I was a horse professional. He didn't get banned on a whim.
                It doesn't surprise me at all that the wagons are beginning to circle.

                But with regard to the big names who are lending their support to GM, seriously ewwww.

                I don't know how the ban can truthfully come as a surprise to anyone who's even peripherally involved in the H/J world. Or who has read GM's own words in his book.

                I hope the ban sticks and that dozens of other people are quaking in their boots right now.
                www.laurienberenson.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
                  Oh good, Robert Dover has weighed in to say that he stands with George because George didn't molest one specific guy he asked....
                  And that guy he asked is really, really good looking! So if GM didn't go after the super good looking dude, he wouldn't have gone after anyone.

                  It disappoints me that Dover would do this.
                  Sheilah

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LaurieB View Post

                    It doesn't surprise me at all that the wagons are beginning to circle.

                    But with regard to the big names who are lending their support to GM, seriously ewwww.

                    I don't know how the ban can truthfully come as a surprise to anyone who's even peripherally involved in the H/J world. Or who has read GM's own words in his book.

                    I hope the ban sticks and that dozens of other people are quaking in their boots right now.
                    I remember a rumor that someone spoke to George about a Safe Sport allegation and he said if they take me down, I'm taking everyone with me.
                    *****
                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Midge View Post

                      I remember a rumor that someone spoke to George about a Safe Sport allegation and he said if they take me down, I'm taking everyone with me.
                      Good. If it's true then bring them all down.
                      "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                        And that guy he asked is really, really good looking! So if GM didn't go after the super good looking dude, he wouldn't have gone after anyone.

                        It disappoints me that Dover would do this.
                        Sheilah
                        My head is going to explode.
                        Let me apologize in advance.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lori T
                          I came on here hoping for some answers and was really shocked to see that everyone is debating GM's innocence and the validity of victim's claims.
                          What we should all be concerned about is that someone is automatically guilty and banned from an organization for life, with no fair trial. And that such accusations can be made anonymously is very disturbing. Sadly, we have seen this mentality a lot lately, mainly with politicians and in Hollywood. And how many of those were later recanted?
                          If GM or any of the others are found guilty, then yes, by all means, they need to be punished. But before receiving a fair trial? We are not living in the 1600's and the Salem Witch Trials anymore.
                          If you could list all the misrepresentations of the safe sport process in one post, this would be a good start. It only misses the overt victim blaming
                          Let me apologize in advance.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                            If you could list all the misrepresentations of the safe sport process in one post, this would be a good start. It only misses the overt victim blaming
                            I hope people realize the overt victim blaming will not be tolerated. THAT makes my head explode....

                            Comment


                            • @LoriT

                              I would be concerned about that. Fortunately, it's not what happened here. GM was banned after notice of and an opportunity to respond to the claim or claims, after investigation, and determination of the credibility of the allegations. The whole process is laid out on the SS website.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Room for a Pony View Post

                                Eight hundred years ago few people in Europe were literate. There isn't the original source material available to draw that kind of conclusion. I would be very curious to know where the author was able to dig up witness testimony records that were able to survive the Black Death, literally hundreds of years of wars and conflict, not to mention deteriorating materials from the environment and insects. Whoever wrote the book you are reading has an agenda. And yes, it is off topic.
                                It's from the very detailed records of an Inquisition in the very far South of France, and detailed in a book called Montaillou. The inquisitors avoided torture whenever possible and recorded long talk sessions with those they were interested in. There is good bit of discussion of sex and sexual norms.

                                Here's the Kirkus Review: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...land-of-error/

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Tiramit View Post

                                  Good. If it's true then bring them all down.
                                  X1,000,000.
                                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                                    If the evidence shows he’s guilty then he should stay banned. Those who didn’t report it and knew are guilty as well. You’re way too emotional about this. Think logically.

                                    What if he’s innocent?

                                    I trust evidence. I’m a scientist therefore think logically and not emotionally.
                                    As a scientist, surely you are familiar with the concept of parsimony.

                                    GM has been given a lifetime ban. GM is either guilty or innocent. In order to be innocent, it must mean a) that someone accused him falsely (intentionally with malice OR due to some type of delusion), AND b) that the SafeSport investigation was crooked AND/OR incompetent. What is the likelihood that any of these are correct?

                                    At the point of accusation: making a true accusation against anyone, never mind one of the most powerful and influential people in the sport, is intensly painful and unpleasant. Making a false accusation out of malice to "get" someone is incredibly risky -- you will be interviewed over and over; your story will be gone over with a fine-toothed comb. You betcha that they'll be looking for evidence of buried grudges, ulterior motives, etc. If you are crazy or delusional, your story will probably reflect that and won't hold up. Is it parsimonious to think that the accuser(s) are malicious or deluded? Probably not, but even if they are, let's move to Step 2:

                                    At the point of investigation: SafeSport knows that their rulings can be appealed, and that hastily or sloppily applied sanctions will quickly lead to the death of SafeSport. They also know that the bigger the fish, the more attention paid to the catch. So, here they are going up against a celebrity with a cult-like following (many of whom are deep-pocketed enough to mount one heck of an appeal). Is it parsimonious to think that SafeSport (which has issued lifetime bans in only a small percentage of cases investigated) was unusually sloppy/incompetent/malicious in imposing this ban, knowing the stakes involved? I'd guess that's pretty improbable, too.

                                    So on one hand, you've got TWO improbable circumstances that have to align for GM to be innocent --a false accusation (unlikely) that is accepted as true after an investigation (unlikely). On the other hand, we've got a process that is subject to review and appeal that has come down with a very strongly stated guilty decision (lifetime bans are reserved for the most egregious offences). Which is the parsionious choice?

                                    We all like to think that we are the rational ones, and that those who disagree with us are illogical or emotional. But isn't it possible that there's a lot of emotion in wanting to see a "hero" vindicated?

                                    Demanding to see evidence isn't proof that you're being rational; it just shows that you are suspicious and sceptical. I don't demand to see evidence that an elevator has been recently inspected before I get in it -- unless I have reason to be suspicious that it might break down. If your suspicion is not parsimonious, then it's founded on something other than rationality and logic.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                      Homosexuality is completely separate from pedophilia. Also, you can’t “raise a homosexual.” You are or you aren’t.
                                      There is absolutely no scientific PROOF of the universality of the latter statement at all. Environmental factors have traditionally been thought to have had significant impacts on sexuality.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post

                                        There is absolutely no scientific PROOF of the unviersality of the latter statement at all. Environmental factors have traditionally been thought to have had significant impacts on sexuality.
                                        OK, while this is an interesting discussion, it has zip-all to do with the topic at hand.
                                        "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                        My CANTER blog.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post

                                          There is absolutely no scientific PROOF of the unviersality of the latter statement at all. Environmental factors have traditionally been thought to have had significant impacts on sexuality.
                                          Considering I’m straight raised by lesbians, bull. Homosexuality isn’t strictly how one has sex.

                                          Comment

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