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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Check out the sept 2nd issue of Coth for the article on victim shaming.
    Ah, you beat me to it. It’s about time. Good for her for standing up.

    Comment


    • I apologize as I'm sure this has been addressed but on the SS facebook page, someone asked a good question. Say trainer John Smith was banned under the SS rules from an incident 15 years ago (not prosectutable under law) but John shows up with his students at a show. The police are called but they refuse to get involved because he isn't breaking a law. What are the ramifications?
      "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CindyCRNA View Post
        I apologize as I'm sure this has been addressed but on the SS facebook page, someone asked a good question. Say trainer John Smith was banned under the SS rules from an incident 15 years ago (not prosectutable under law) but John shows up with his students at a show. The police are called but they refuse to get involved because he isn't breaking a law. What are the ramifications?
        I’m assuming show management and the steward would not accept the entry and refuse him entrance to the grounds. If he persisted, law enforcement would be called to enforce trespassing law. But I’m not a lawyer so don’t quote me on any of that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CindyCRNA View Post
          I apologize as I'm sure this has been addressed but on the SS facebook page, someone asked a good question. Say trainer John Smith was banned under the SS rules from an incident 15 years ago (not prosectutable under law) but John shows up with his students at a show. The police are called but they refuse to get involved because he isn't breaking a law. What are the ramifications?
          If he is a nobody, perhaps he could get away with it because no one would recognize him. It’s not like they check ID to get onto show grounds. But anyone recognizable? I would imagine they would get escorted off property as a trespasser. There were plenty of police officers this weekend at the Hamptons, so I imagine it wouldn’t be hard to get rid of a trespasser at a rated show.

          ETA: he *would* be doing something illegal: trespassing.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by erinmeri View Post

            If he is a nobody, perhaps he could get away with it because no one would recognize him. It’s not like they check ID to get onto show grounds. But anyone recognizable? I would imagine they would get escorted off property as a trespasser. There were plenty of police officers this weekend at the Hamptons, so I imagine it wouldn’t be hard to get rid of a trespasser at a rated show.

            ETA: he *would* be doing something illegal: trespassing.
            But is it? Isn't something like, let's say, AEC's at KHP a public venue ? Does a SS ban mean you can't attend an event? You can tell I don't know here. I mean, what exactly is a ban? Does it mean you can't be 300' from event grounds? (I'm just throwing stuff out). So wouldn't KHP have to ban his entrance? I'm sorry I know everyone is tired of hashing this out. I mean, I can say "John Smith I ban you from being any closer than 300' from KHP " but if KHP doesn't enforce it and the police won't because I don't have authority to ban John from KHP, what really keeps John away?
            "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CindyCRNA View Post

              But is it? Isn't something like, let's say, AEC's at KHP a public venue ? Does a SS ban mean you can't attend an event? You can tell I don't know here. I mean, what exactly is a ban? Does it mean you can't be 300' from event grounds? (I'm just throwing stuff out). So wouldn't KHP have to ban his entrance? I'm sorry I know everyone is tired of hashing this out. I mean, I can say "John Smith I ban you from being any closer than 300' from KHP " but if KHP doesn't enforce it and the police won't because I don't have authority to ban John from KHP, what really keeps John away?
              Google tells me you CAN trespass on “public” space. And yes, if you are banned by the USEF, you cannot attend an event. (See the hullabaloo over Mclain’s dad not being able to “watch his son compete” - and yes that is in quotes for a reason - after his ban).

              “Even if you are allowed to enter a place that’s open to the public (such as a store or park), you can still be convicted of criminal trespass if you stay after the space closes or fail to leave after you’re ordered to do so.“

              https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ssing-law.html

              ETA: if the police fail to act, I would take it to the USEF, who likely have ties to higher levels of law enforcement/have the pull to actually do something. But that is a total assumption from someone who has been out of showing for many, many years and has never been involved in show management (though my family was involved in motocross race management). All that said, I would find it unlikely in today’s environment that show management wouldn’t have ties to local LE and be able to get a simple trespasser off grounds. I saw a cop with an assault rifle at the GP today and they had a mobile command post near the entrance to show grounds... that suggests some careful coordination with law enforcement in my book.
              Last edited by erinmeri; Sep. 1, 2019, 09:39 PM. Reason: Added clarification

              Comment


              • Originally posted by erinmeri View Post
                I saw a cop with an assault rifle at the GP today and they had a mobile command post near the entrance to show grounds... that suggests some careful coordination with law enforcement in my book.
                Where was that?!? Southampton?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CindyCRNA View Post
                  I apologize as I'm sure this has been addressed but on the SS facebook page, someone asked a good question. Say trainer John Smith was banned under the SS rules from an incident 15 years ago (not prosectutable under law) but John shows up with his students at a show. The police are called but they refuse to get involved because he isn't breaking a law. What are the ramifications?
                  Why do you think he is not breaking a law. Like someone mentioned, Barney Ward was never able to watch McLain compete live, he wasnt even allowed in the audience. I believe that included FEI and olympic events. Correct me if I am wrong but I remember reading that.

                  Comment


                  • Paul V. is also banned from sanctioned show grounds and has been for YEARS.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MHM View Post
                      Where was that?!? Southampton?
                      Yes. It was alarming but a sign of the times we live in, I guess.

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=Capall;n10467821]Paul V. is also banned from sanctioned show grounds and has been for YEARS. [/QUOTE

                        Has he set foot on show grounds that we know of?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by erinmeri View Post

                          Yes. It was alarming but a sign of the times we live in, I guess.
                          I suppose so. I feel like it would be more likely to happen at Southampton, since it is a big event there to wrap up the summer, with lots of spectators. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen another horse show with armed policemen on site. Certainly not with assault weapons, anyway.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MHM View Post

                            I suppose so. I feel like it would be more likely to happen at Southampton, since it is a big event there to wrap up the summer, with lots of spectators. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen another horse show with armed policemen on site. Certainly not with assault weapons, anyway.
                            I have been out of the horse world for a long time, and out of the AA show world for longer... and I found it shocking. For reference: I work in Times Square... so, yeah. I see assault weapons every day I am there. I do appreciate that they keep us safe.

                            Comment


                            • I wonder how other sports handle this (ejecting people who are on their permanent ban list)? Swimming and gymnastics have HUNDREDS of permanently banned former members. It would be interesting to know what their process is to ensure they stay away from sanctioned competitions/events.
                              ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

                              Comment


                              • [QUOTE=erinmeri;n10467824]
                                Originally posted by Capall View Post
                                Paul V. is also banned from sanctioned show grounds and has been for YEARS. [/QUOTE

                                Has he set foot on show grounds that we know of?
                                Not during show days but, in the past at least, he would be there on schooling day.
                                *****
                                You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by 4LeafCloverFarm View Post
                                  I wonder how other sports handle this (ejecting people who are on their permanent ban list)? Swimming and gymnastics have HUNDREDS of permanently banned former members. It would be interesting to know what their process is to ensure they stay away from sanctioned competitions/events.
                                  I don’t think it would be difficult to eject a banned member... assuming one could recognize him/her as such

                                  Comment


                                  • [QUOTE=Midge;n10467833]
                                    Originally posted by erinmeri View Post

                                    Not during show days but, in the past at least, he would be there on schooling day.
                                    Clearly we need to figure that out. It is one thing to get away with being a clinician, but another thing to waltz into show grounds. Wow.
                                    Last edited by erinmeri; Sep. 2, 2019, 08:18 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • PS, there were no fewer than three or four abusers [allegedly of animals] in the GP today, depending on your criteria. Time to clean house!

                                      ETA: not sexual abusers... alleged animal abusers.
                                      Last edited by erinmeri; Sep. 2, 2019, 10:23 AM.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by erinmeri View Post
                                        PS, there were no fewer than four abusers in the GP today, depending on your criteria. Time to clean house!
                                        Abusers of people? Or horses?

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by erinmeri View Post

                                          I don’t think it would be difficult to eject a banned member... assuming one could recognize him/her as such
                                          Well, that is my point. Do they check IDs against the SS banned list for entry to the facility? Or do they rely on other coaches/members to notice a banned member and tell someone? Or what? How do they know and who knows who to remove from the premises? Is this on the facility, or the club/event person who leased the facility or the NGB who sanctioned the event or ?

                                          I'm just curious how enforcement is handled. Shows, even smaller ones, are usually so spread out and people everywhere... how will anyone know if a banned member is on the premises? Especially if you are from a different area and have traveled some distance to the show. Would you know the names and faces of all the banned members? I'm sure I wouldn't.
                                          ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

                                          Comment

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