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  • AlterHalter2019

    What a horrible ordeal. i'm so sorry.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tigre Horse View Post

      AMEN.

      I don't know about the others - but I much prefer the term survivor, over victim. I certainly was a victim once - but I am a victim no more.

      Fate whispers to the warrior "you cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I am the storm"
      Thank you for this quote today. I have been following the discussion and drafted several posts... but refrained. I just can’t quite collect my thoughts and feelings.

      Your words have given me clarity and strength.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by AlterHalter2019 View Post

        Im not exaggerating when I say that the process of going to trial was more excruciating and psychologically painful than the rape itself. I could never tell someone going through the same thing to testify because it was literal hell. I have never felt so small, so ashamed, and so embarrassed for something in my life even though I never asked for it.
        This is exactly how I feel. It was awful in the year preparing for it, and the morning of and I didn't even have to actually testify. I can only imagine how horrible that has been for you. I had to tell the story so many times that I just got tired of telling it and the feelings it brought on that I didn't even care to live for a while.

        Then again, once the guy got out of jail, dealing with the pain and living in utter fear every day of my life. It's just hell.
        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

        Comment


        • Jealoushe and AlterHalter2019,

          I am so sorry for what you experienced, and even more sorry it didn't result it an appropriate outcome for your attackers.
          The plural of anecdote is not data.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Horsegirl's Mom View Post

            I think most of us agree SafeSport is needed. When you talk about the "type of process" SafeSport developed, what features do you feel will make it more effective than the law?
            1. Protection for the victim in terms of anonymity
            2. Timeliness/stream-lined process
            3. A burden of proof consistent with administrative processes as opposed the burden of proof necessary for criminal proceedings
            4. No statute of limitations
            5. Investigative proceedings that don’t require the victim to undergo a traditional cross examination


            SafeSport still awards the opportunity for both sides to present evidence and pose questions, unlike some administrative processes. They offer appeal, unlike most administrative processes. Really, they’ve done a good job of developing a fair and effective system to prevent NGBs from turning a blind eye to abuse, or for wringing their hands and waiting for the law... when the law fails to make progress in these cases more often than not.

            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

            Comment


            • In over 20 years in court in Atlanta I never saw what alter halter said happened to her. Granted our prosecutors were as good or better than the best civil and criminal lawyers in Atlanta. I lost 2 of my hundreds of rape cases. It was cathartic for my victims to testify and see the rapist get lots of time in prison. I used similar transactions of victims of the rapists. I socialized with my victims before and after trials.
              While I never tried a court martial I did take that course at UGA where Colonel Murray taught us. He later was dean at St. Louis univ law.
              I'm just amazed that a military judge and military prosecutor would allow that to take so long and so detailed.
              my child molestation victims nailed their defendants as I told them always tell the truth. No acquittals there out of hundreds
              My victims walked into court with confidence in the system and all but 2 walked out of court feeling that the judge and jury were on their side.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                I’m so sorry. There are no words.

                This is is exactly why the SafeSport method is needed. While I am open to the fact that there may be “growing pains” that need to be ironed out, I wholeheartedly believe they developed exactly the type of process necessary to effectively remove predators from sport.

                The law repeatedly fails to stop sexual misconduct. I don’t know how many heart wrenching stories need to be told to get that point across.
                AlterHalter2019 - ditto to what others have said... thank you for sharing your actual experience as a victim testifying in the legal system... albeit the military legal system. It’s all Utterly shameful and sad.

                I’ve struggled reading what many have written because of my own experiences. I have never formally reported anything that happened to me to the police. I tried in a VERY limited way years and years ago as a teenager to turn to my own family on two different occasions for support after going through sexual abuse as a child and then sexual assault later as a teenager. Simply for emotional support and to get needed counseling.

                My own family essentially cross examined me and picked me apart the second I simply BEGAN to try and open my mouth about it. Most especially my mother. It was and still is excruciating to remember. After going through that with my own family ... after only sharing tiny bits and pieces of what actually happened to me in private with my own parents... I can’t even imagine going through over 9 hours on the stand testifying about my experiences in detail, and getting my story and personal history picked apart. In front of people I served with. That would be excruciating. You were incredibly brave and strong to try. Incredibly.

                Texarkana is right... these are the reasons Safe Sport is needed. Sexual assault and sexual abuse is incredibly challenging to deal with effectively in the context of our criminal and civil system. It’s also incredibly challenging to deal with effectively WITHIN small close knit groups (within a family, within a single unit and command in the military, within a tight knit, small elite sporting community). Reporting incidents... even informally... can lead to the small group shunning a victim, and ruining a career.

                Safe Sport is attempting to find a way to cope with the scourge of sexual abuse... sideline and remove abusers from sport, and allow children and adults to continue enjoying and participating in sports without having to repeatedly face known abusers.

                It is in its infancy... people need to settle down and give it time to work through these processes and refine them. It will improve over time. No process or organization gets things perfect right in the beginning. The Lopez case in particular is really unfortunate, but hopefully lessons can be learned, and Safe Sport improves.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                  This is exactly how I feel. It was awful in the year preparing for it, and the morning of and I didn't even have to actually testify. I can only imagine how horrible that has been for you. I had to tell the story so many times that I just got tired of telling it and the feelings it brought on that I didn't even care to live for a while.

                  Then again, once the guy got out of jail, dealing with the pain and living in utter fear every day of my life. It's just hell.
                  I’m so so sorry for what you went through as well. My heart goes out to you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                    1. Protection for the victim in terms of anonymity
                    2. Timeliness/stream-lined process
                    3. A burden of proof consistent with administrative processes as opposed the burden of proof necessary for criminal proceedings
                    4. No statute of limitations
                    5. Investigative proceedings that don’t require the victim to undergo a traditional cross examination


                    SafeSport still awards the opportunity for both sides to present evidence and pose questions, unlike some administrative processes. They offer appeal, unlike most administrative processes. Really, they’ve done a good job of developing a fair and effective system to prevent NGBs from turning a blind eye to abuse, or for wringing their hands and waiting for the law... when the law fails to make progress in these cases more often than not.
                    This is an excellent summary of issues and response to concerns. Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                      In over 20 years in court in Atlanta I never saw what alter halter said happened to her. Granted our prosecutors were as good or better than the best civil and criminal lawyers in Atlanta. I lost 2 of my hundreds of rape cases. It was cathartic for my victims to testify and see the rapist get lots of time in prison. I used similar transactions of victims of the rapists. I socialized with my victims before and after trials.
                      While I never tried a court martial I did take that course at UGA where Colonel Murray taught us. He later was dean at St. Louis univ law.
                      I'm just amazed that a military judge and military prosecutor would allow that to take so long and so detailed.
                      my child molestation victims nailed their defendants as I told them always tell the truth. No acquittals there out of hundreds
                      My victims walked into court with confidence in the system and all but 2 walked out of court feeling that the judge and jury were on their side.
                      I am glad to hear that there are positive examples of the law working how it should. Your experience far exceeds mine. With that said, very rarely do I hear of the successes and ease that you are claiming. I know a family who has been battling in the legal system over 10 years regarding rape charges, thanks to appeals, retrials, etc. They are not alone in their struggles. I don't think anyone would argue that legal cases of any type can be slow to reach resolution.

                      Then you have the problem of character. The whole job of the opposing legal team is to discredit the other side (not that I need to tell you that). You get situations like the Cyntoia Brown case, or to bring it closer to the discussion at hand, Jonathan Soresi, where the victim's character becomes a bigger debate than whether or not the perpetrator committed the crime. A victim is a victim, and in a perfect world, their "history" would never come into play. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in.

                      SafeSport can reduce a predator's access to potential victims within the context of sport, especially when the legal system may not be able provide resolution for any number of reasons.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by skydy View Post

                        For those who don't remember:

                        There once was COTH's "Appassionata"
                        (Reminiscent of Beethoven's Sonata)
                        An unfortunate typo
                        Called her "Asspantio"
                        And we laughed until breath we had nada.

                        Sorry for the derail.
                        Asspantio has come up on two threads this week! Best week ever!!!
                        "Dogs give and give and give. Cats are the gift that keeps on grifting." —Bradley Trevor Greive

                        Comment


                        • Hugs to all those that have shared their experiences. I'm far too emotional about things right now to be articulate. This entire thread is a massive trigger for all those horrible feelings, probably for a lot of us, definitely for me. Every survivor posting or reading, you're in my thoughts.

                          Texarkana

                          1. Protection for the victim in terms of anonymity
                          2. Timeliness/stream-lined process
                          3. A burden of proof consistent with administrative processes as opposed the burden of proof necessary for criminal proceedings
                          4. No statute of limitations
                          5. Investigative proceedings that don’t require the victim to undergo a traditional cross examination
                          YES, 100% this. I would just note that the first point means anonymity in the media or to the public, not to SS itself. Thank you for laying out the points a lot of us have tried to get across.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                            Hugs to all those that have shared their experiences. I'm far too emotional about things right now to be articulate. This entire thread is a massive trigger for all those horrible feelings, probably for a lot of us, definitely for me. Every survivor posting or reading, you're in my thoughts.

                            Texarkana



                            YES, 100% this. I would just note that the first point means anonymity in the media or to the public, not to SS itself. Thank you for laying out the points a lot of us have tried to get across.
                            Thanks for that important clarification. Yes, anonymity in terms of the public release of information (NOT in terms of the internal investigation process or any resulting sanctions). I even regretted not being more clear after I re-read it, but didn’t want to go back and edit after it had been quoted. There’s already too much confusion about how the sanctioning process works and I certainly wasn’t trying to add to that confusion!
                            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                              Thanks for that important clarification. Yes, anonymity in terms of the public release of information (NOT in terms of the internal investigation process or any resulting sanctions). I even regretted not being more clear after I re-read it, but didn’t want to go back and edit after it had been quoted. There’s already too much confusion about how the sanctioning process works and I certainly wasn’t trying to add to that confusion!
                              I wasn't confused, but you know someone's going to come in yelling about anonymous complaints, which everyone that's paying attention knows, wouldn't result in a ban.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                                In over 20 years in court in Atlanta I never saw what alter halter said happened to her. Granted our prosecutors were as good or better than the best civil and criminal lawyers in Atlanta. I lost 2 of my hundreds of rape cases. It was cathartic for my victims to testify and see the rapist get lots of time in prison. I used similar transactions of victims of the rapists. I socialized with my victims before and after trials.
                                While I never tried a court martial I did take that course at UGA where Colonel Murray taught us. He later was dean at St. Louis univ law.
                                I'm just amazed that a military judge and military prosecutor would allow that to take so long and so detailed.
                                my child molestation victims nailed their defendants as I told them always tell the truth. No acquittals there out of hundreds
                                My victims walked into court with confidence in the system and all but 2 walked out of court feeling that the judge and jury were on their side.
                                I was a victim of rape, and there was never even a suspect identified, much less a trial. I would have wanted to testify, but never had the opportunity to.

                                Comment


                                • After almost 3,300 posts on this thread, it is still a shock to see how many of the posters here have experienced assault or rape or similar things. Even knowing the statistics, it is still striking to see how many are affected by this problem.

                                  Again, many thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences here to help others understand the situation a little better.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                                    But (in general - not aimed at you) flip that around and think about how that applies to all those theoretical false reports people seem to be worried about. How many people would go through all that just for the pleasure of ruining someone's reputation? Even if it's not a public trial setting, it's not just like you call up SafeSport and say "gee, I'd like to take Trainer X down" and then -boom! - they're suspended for life.

                                    How many people would be willing to go through all that emotional pain of retelling stories that in retrospect, make them feel not only vulnerable but guilty and stupid as well and take on GM and all his entourage for some sort of revenge? I call vanishingly small.
                                    Well, that's the thing with false reports - you're not re-living anything upsetting, because you didn't live it in the first place. It's false. There's no re-experiencing a trauma if it was never experienced.

                                    I'm not talking about SS because I have no idea about SS's statistics, and it isn't a criminal tribunal. But when it comes to crime, all crimes, including homicide, have false reports (of course in homicide you get the added logistical difficulties of actually faking your death, thus the number of false reports must be extremely rare - yet still, some do exist).
                                    Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                                    Comment


                                    • I should have been more clear. I don't think many reports are made up out of whole cloth in the sense that nothing happened at all. I meant the kind of incidents people always talk about where it's a vengeful girlfriend spurned kind of thing. In any case, you still get trashed on the stand, your life gets torn to bits, your every action questioned. Not fun. Not something you want to go through unless you have some compelling reason to do so.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                                        In over 20 years in court in Atlanta I never saw what alter halter said happened to her. Granted our prosecutors were as good or better than the best civil and criminal lawyers in Atlanta. I lost 2 of my hundreds of rape cases. It was cathartic for my victims to testify and see the rapist get lots of time in prison. I used similar transactions of victims of the rapists. I socialized with my victims before and after trials.
                                        While I never tried a court martial I did take that course at UGA where Colonel Murray taught us. He later was dean at St. Louis univ law.
                                        I'm just amazed that a military judge and military prosecutor would allow that to take so long and so detailed.
                                        my child molestation victims nailed their defendants as I told them always tell the truth. No acquittals there out of hundreds
                                        My victims walked into court with confidence in the system and all but 2 walked out of court feeling that the judge and jury were on their side.
                                        What about when they don’t get long jail time? Or even a conviction? In Canada our system is so broken, they get hardly any time and are back out to freely stalk and harass you within a few years. It’s awful.
                                        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                                          What about when they don’t get long jail time? Or even a conviction? In Canada our system is so broken, they get hardly any time and are back out to freely stalk and harass you within a few years. It’s awful.
                                          my rapists usually got Life but the damn pardon and parole board considered that as 21 yrs and often paroled in 1/3 for good behavior. Hey one of my lifers raped a clerk in prison so he stayed in. He'd gotten a not guilty from a jury before my time and also a 15 yr sentence for 7 rapes and out in 1/2 of 15 before I got him. His sister,a friend of mine, said he'd been the bad child out of 5 siblings. She turned him in.
                                          Does your state have a stalking and aggravated stalking laws? I've put stalkers in prison after trials before they could kidnap and rape.
                                          Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Sep. 1, 2019, 12:44 PM.

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