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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

    Well then you agree with a lot of misinformation.

    For example, Tiramit says:



    and



    The final verdict is IN. We have gotten a "clear answer." SafeSport conducted an investigation, in which the respondent, claimant, and witnesses were involved, and found that there was enough evidence for George Morris to deserve a permanently ineligible sanction. It is currently open to appeal, but SafeSport gave us their answer based on their comprehensive investigation process.
    I meant post-appeal. If the appeal fails, then that is the FINAL verdict.

    This isn't Rob Gage where he killed himself. GM is going to fight it, which is his legal right. It probably won't go his way, but because there's still that chance, we have to say that Round 1 found him guilty and Round 2 may or may not. The appeal is the end of the process.

    Also, when you say "a lot of misinformation" in relation to my post, please give an example beyond the above. I gave opinions in the rest.
    "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

    Comment


    • Originally posted by skydy View Post

      The sentence was in quotes.
      Not the subheading.
      *****
      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jmp1993 View Post

        Lol. Okay, I'm a law student therefore I think logically and not emotionally. Stop. The two aren't inherently related.
        You may think logically in your field but it's not up to you to determine what evidence is "solid" in this case. That's what I was referring to.
        To me it is. I can see evidence and determine. It’s pretty cut and dry. Either he did it or not. Either the plaintiff is telling the truth or lying.

        If you could break it down more since you are studying law, I would appreciate it. PM me if you want.

        Comment


        • A lot of people seem to misunderstand the whole "appeal" thing. The appeal is not a part of the initial process. The initial process is the investigation, interviewing witnesses, allowing both sides to present evidence, and an evaluation, by Safe Sport, of all the evidence. Safe Sport then makes a final decision and hands down whatever sanction they decide is warranted. End of story. Verdict reached. Decision made. Answer clearly stated.

          This is where the GM case stands now.

          The appeal comes afterward. GM has an opportunity to appeal the Safe Sport finding. But it doesn't mean that there is anything unfinished or unsettled in the Safe Sport investigation.

          I read a few of the comments on the COTH Facebook page this morning. Once again, I find myself asking, "WTH is wrong with people?" It's kind of disheartening. And, as I said during the Rob Gage discussion, certainly illustrates just how badly this sport needs Safe Sport.
          "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
          that's even remotely true."

          Homer Simpson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
            Off topic, but I'm reading a book about society in the very South of France in the very early part of the 14th century, and one section discusses homosexuality in the Catholic priesthood. The author makes it sound as if boys in Catholic institutions were groomed and trained to be homosexual from as early as the age of five; this is based on witness testimony records. 800 years ago in that area at least, the Church was not only a haven for homosexuals, but its monasteries and schools were places where young, even very young boys, were not only molested but got training that lasted for their whole lives in that environment.
            Homosexuality is completely separate from pedophilia. Also, you can’t “raise a homosexual.” You are or you aren’t.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by skydy View Post

              I remember the incident, just didn't remember the name. Where the hell was USEF?
              It took Safe Sport to ban him.

              Whomever said that we can't be relied upon to police ourselves was certainly right.
              I believe he was suspended by the USEF for quite a long time. If he was off the suspension list recently, I was not aware of it. I think he was still teaching/training at a barn somewhere, but could not attend USEF shows during that period.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

                Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.
                It wasn't just an accusation - there was a very thorough investigation. I believe poltroon posted a few of my comments from the Rob Gage thread about SafeSport. Sarah Nir has been investigating the allegations against GM for months. She'll probably be releasing the first article very soon.

                For anyone who has specific questions about SafeSport, please DM or @ me. This is the first time in days I've been free since the news articles about John Coughlin's case were released.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tiramit View Post

                  Also, when you say "a lot of misinformation" in relation to my post, please give an example beyond the above. I gave opinions in the rest.
                  I should have rephrased it as "a considerable piece of misinformation."

                  This idea that "maybe the claims aren't true" is a HUGE one in the SafeSport debate.

                  You have clarified your personal opinion that you want to hold judgement until after the appeal process, but a lot of ardent opposers of SafeSport (not referring to you) believe that a SS sanction has no evidence behind it.

                  There are a large number of equestrians who believe lifetime bans are handed out by SafeSport without an investigation and without any chance for the accused to defend themselves. That is a fallacy that needs to be addressed.
                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                    Please folks... read the RG thread, watch “At the Heart of Gold” and check out the Outside the Lines report from ESPN on Conrad Mainwaring. Read about Ashley Wagner’s story. Go back and read the NYT article from last year about Jimmy Williams..
                    On the SS Honest Conversation page, someone listed all the ways Ashley Wagner was culpable. Going to a party without telling her parents, Underage drinking, not planning on how to get back to her hotel. and how she and the man got their signals crossed and she was so drunk she might not have remembered inviting him to her room. Then later in the thread wonders who was blaming the victim? She got lots of likes for that.
                    *****
                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                      Off topic, but I'm reading a book about society in the very South of France in the very early part of the 14th century, and one section discusses homosexuality in the Catholic priesthood. The author makes it sound as if boys in Catholic institutions were groomed and trained to be homosexual from as early as the age of five; this is based on witness testimony records. 800 years ago in that area at least, the Church was not only a haven for homosexuals, but its monasteries and schools were places where young, even very young boys, were not only molested but got training that lasted for their whole lives in that environment.
                      Eight hundred years ago few people in Europe were literate. There isn't the original source material available to draw that kind of conclusion. I would be very curious to know where the author was able to dig up witness testimony records that were able to survive the Black Death, literally hundreds of years of wars and conflict, not to mention deteriorating materials from the environment and insects. Whoever wrote the book you are reading has an agenda. And yes, it is off topic.

                      Comment


                      • What page in the Robert Gage thread should I start at? Sorry, trying to catch up here.
                        Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

                        Comment


                        • FiSK123, thank you for taking the time to post here on the BB and answer questions. It’s always helpful to compare and contrast how the same issues are addressed in different settings.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post
                            A lot of people seem to misunderstand the whole "appeal" thing. The appeal is not a part of the initial process. The initial process is the investigation, interviewing witnesses, allowing both sides to present evidence, and an evaluation, by Safe Sport, of all the evidence. Safe Sport then makes a final decision and hands down whatever sanction they decide is warranted. End of story. Verdict reached. Decision made. Answer clearly stated.
                            Note, I'm not defending GM.

                            There should be some clarification on the appeals process. First, there is a real process. Everyone involved doesn't gather in a room and flip a coin to determine the result. There's no lead official saying, "sorry ol' boy, but it's heads which means you're guilty."

                            In an appeals process they can go back and look at the case details which includes the evidence, the testimony, and consider anything the defense brings forward. One could say they investigate the case. If they didn't look at the evidence, the testimony, and anything new the defense brings forward there's little point in hiring lawyers and having an appeals process.

                            If there is an appeal filed, the case is not over. It's pending appeal, which means there's still a chance the accused will ultimately be found not guilty.
                            "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                              If the evidence shows he’s guilty then he should stay banned. Those who didn’t report it and knew are guilty as well. You’re way too emotional about this. Think logically.

                              What if he’s innocent?

                              I trust evidence. I’m a scientist therefore think logically and not emotionally.
                              So you have actually seen an electron? Or you believe it's there because scientists did experiment and the math.

                              Ok so use your logical brain to understand that in investigators did the investigation and the follow up and then handed out the mist severe penalty they could.

                              And here you are yelling rhe earth is flat .

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                                I should have rephrased it as "a considerable piece of misinformation."

                                This idea that "maybe the claims aren't true" is a HUGE one in the SafeSport debate.

                                You have clarified your personal opinion that you want to hold judgement until after the appeal process, but a lot of ardent opposers of SafeSport (not referring to you) believe that a SS sanction has no evidence behind it.

                                There are a large number of equestrians who believe lifetime bans are handed out by SafeSport without an investigation and without any chance for the accused to defend themselves. That is a fallacy that needs to be addressed.
                                You and I are on the same page regarding SS and its process (based on the RG thread). The difference there was that he ended his life before the appeals process was over. We could debate "the end" because there was one. That's not the case here. He's very much alive and fighting, so the case isn't really over.
                                "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by 2centsworth View Post

                                  yes - makes you wonder if Jonathan was being investigated, as he is on the suspension list, and gave up GM.... would make sense
                                  I know one of the other names mentioned there. Ran a very small program. Some have told me that someone funnels money toward him...props up the business, so to speak.
                                  Last edited by Room for a Pony; Aug. 6, 2019, 02:51 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • On a slightly different tangent..

                                    I have a thought for the abusers out there, particularly the older ones. Instead of being outraged at this modern turn of events, they might consider feeling very appreciative of the decades of unbothered life they have lived, free from the repercussions of their behaviour. Many of the survivors of their actions will have had their own lives altered, dramatically and painfully over the same time period.

                                    One could argue the perps got lucky(!!!)...to have their lives unfold in the culture that it did. A steady supply of get out of jail free cards, how nice! And now it's time to face the music.

                                    I'm sure there are those who feel enormous regret, and are accepting their fate with decorum. But for the foot stompers, be aware that sashaying around the planet for years with a golden horseshoe in one's pocket was simply a karmic gift of the times, not a right nor an inevitability.

                                    Just something to chew on.
                                    One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
                                    William Shakespeare

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                                      Tell that to the Boy Scouts.
                                      The Boy Scouts who spend millions, along with the Catholic Church, lobbying state legislatures to reduce the statute of limitations on sexual abuse of minors, that Boy Scouts?

                                      I feel this thread needs a link to Hooked on Phonics.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                                        To me it is. I can see evidence and determine. It’s pretty cut and dry. Either he did it or not. Either the plaintiff is telling the truth or lying.
                                        Just curious...do you think you are entitled access to whatever "evidence" exists? If I were a victim I'd be a lot less likely to come forward if I knew that all the details of something traumatic would be shared for public consumption...especially if the person I was accusing was in significantly higher social standing than I.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Can'tFindMyWhip View Post
                                          Is SafeSport painting any other sport in as terrible of a light as equestrian sports?
                                          I found this question interesting and did a little data dip into gymnastics and swimming. There are a lot of names listed on the SafeSport website for both those sports. I didn't count, but it looks like both have more listings than equestrian does.

                                          I was horrified to see the name of a trainer I knew back in the mid-80's listed under equestrian. I was flabbergasted, to say the least. I did a quick Google search and discovered this guy had a trail of criminal child molestation convictions that had nothing to do with SafeSport.

                                          He was just as well though of as GM, in his little corner of the horse world. He was supportive of riders, and a wonderful horseman. And he was also a serial sexual predator of minors. Being a talented horse person, or even a ground breaking, transformative figure in the horse world, does not mean you can't also be a predator. They aren't mutually exclusive.

                                          I would think that SafeSport would have investigated up one wall and down another before banning GM. They had to know that he would come out swinging. And boy, did he swing. In one PR statement they have been able to frame the allegations as fifty years old. And now the internet is dissecting how appropriate it is to act on 50 year old allegations. With one sentence in a PR statement, the debate becomes more about when than about what.

                                          Let that sink in for a minute. For all we know, there might have been multiple allegations from multiple people. Once one person starts telling their story, it often leads to other people and once approached, those other people start telling their story. The only person who is framing it as one allegation from fifty years ago is GM, which is being accepted as fact now by the internet. That is sad.
                                          Sheilah

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