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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by Tiramit View Post
    A recurring theme within the global GM discussion that stands out in flashing marquee lights is the "we all knew about it" comments. The "whispers" and "open rumors" and "not-so-secret secret" comments.

    Let's let that sink in for a moment. An entire community (and its periphery) gossiped about it. For DECADES. An entire community that did nothing to confirm the rumors and, if they were true, help the victims and prevent future victims.

    If Nassar hadn't been caught and Congress hadn't created SafeSport, would the riding community still be snickering about GM over beers or exchanging knowing glances across the aisle? Probably.

    I'm not going to come out all guns a-blazing against GM at this stage. It's not from a lack of knowledge about SS or because I don't believe he could have done it. I've read the SS process and understand they've determined there's a reason to investigate the claim. I also understand that he is in the appeal process and that there is a chance the ruling could be overturned.

    Since I'm not part of the investigation process and privy to the case's details, I'll wait until the final verdict before issuing a personal ruling.

    What I do know is that I've ridden with the man multiple times. He's tough, yes. He sometimes makes harsh comments and can bully people who aren't all-in and trying. He can also issue amazing praise and support. The results of his work have been proven. He's very good at his job. That hasn't stopped me with associating him with tough military generals in my mind.

    I'd hate for this claim to be true, but there's a chance it is. Hopefully we'll be given a clear answer at some point.
    I agree with you 100 %. Great post!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

      Perfectly illustrating again the need for safe sport
      Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

      Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
        OK now seeing RDs post....gross. What a willfully niave man. Every sentance just makes it worse.
        RD is definitely not naive. He knows exactly where the skeletons are buried, and the politics involved.
        Politics as related to USEF, USET and personal.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

          Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

          Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.
          He has been banned. That is what we are discussing.
          Let me apologize in advance.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

            Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

            Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.
            It's not an "accusation" but a whole investigation.
            "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

            My CANTER blog.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Midge View Post

              I find it interesting that this article states the violation was '68 to '72, when it appears only Morris's statement said that.
              Because the "one incident 50 years ago" is a carefully crafted marketing narrative. Just like RG's supporters kept yelling the story about him having a relationship in his 20's with a 17 year old before HR and others stepped up and spoke publicly.

              I'm incredibly interested in the legal proceedings - no doubt he can and will overturn a negligent/unfair decision (just like Glefke and Farmer did in actual court for the drug thing) - as well as the promised story from the journalist.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jmp1993 View Post

                Well luckily it's not up to you to decide.

                EDIT: Also, what would you consider "solid" evidence to be? An account by a victim that was then denied by the accused? Would you require one or 10 witnesses? Would you insist on a polygraph test? Would you only trust someone who was successful? Or would you not trust someone who is successful because they're just "jealous" that GM is "better" than them? Would you only trust someone who was above the age of consent at that time because they're adults and children tell stories? See - this is why it is not your place to demand or expect evidence. All you see is the permanent suspension - you don't see the detailed investigation. The assumption might be it happened overnight but believe me this took months if not years. There is evidence - even if it's not satisfactory to you.
                If the evidence shows he’s guilty then he should stay banned. Those who didn’t report it and knew are guilty as well. You’re way too emotional about this. Think logically.

                What if he’s innocent?

                I trust evidence. I’m a scientist therefore think logically and not emotionally.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by anotherera View Post

                  Everything that you post seems always to be about YOU! I'm probably old enough to be either your mother or your grandmother, and yes, people DID come out in the 60's. I had a ton of male equestrian friends who were gay in the 60's, and they were out and proud. Unfortunately due to the Aids epidemic, few of them are still alive.
                  People did not so much as "come out" as much as they engaged in polyamorous relationships. By the 80's it was more common to come out, but during the 60's and 70's, in most settings, it was not all that common. There is a large population of people born in that era who are the product of a gay parent who got married either as a cover or because it was expected. I have personal experience with this
                  Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                    He has been banned. That is what we are discussing.
                    He’s appealing. If he’s found guilty he stays banned.
                    If what he did is true, then I’m very disappointed in him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                      If the evidence shows he’s guilty then he should be banned. Those who didn’t report it and knew are guilty as well. You’re way too emotional about this. Think logically.

                      What if he’s innocent?

                      I trust evidence. I’m a scientist therefore think logically and not emotionally.
                      Lol. Okay, I'm a law student therefore I think logically and not emotionally. Stop. The two aren't inherently related.
                      You may think logically in your field but it's not up to you to determine what evidence is "solid" in this case. That's what I was referring to.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                        Again. Spare the drama. If he’s guilty then he’s guilty and should be banned. If he’s guilty then all those who knew and didn’t report should be banned as well. If he’s innocent, well he deserves an apology.

                        Getting all emotional over an accusation isn’t going to help.
                        I think the point everyone is trying to make is he is not suspended. A thorough investigation HAS happened. And it has been determined that the offenses were egregious enough to warrant lifetime suspension.

                        As we've learned in the Rob Gage thread, the SafeSport process is exacting. Because of the sensitive nature of the allegations, it is not possible for us to have the names and all the details. I don't think we are entitled to those any way.

                        Either you trust in the process after educating yourself on how it works or you don't. Lots of folks here have learned about the process and accept the decisions without getting gory details. It's true that the tone of the RG thread changed when we learned of Hilary Ridland coming forward after a competition in CA to answer questions on her abuse. So maybe that's just what it takes for some to believe. It's problematic bc I don't feel if you've been abused at any age that you should have to come forward to a crowd to make people believe you. And then get verbally assaulted on FB. That's NOT a good system.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                          Spare me the drama. I’ll decide when I see solid evidence.
                          This type of mindset is what makes sexual misconduct so hard to prosecute in our current court system. It's why sexual predators skirt the law, sometimes for their entire lives.

                          The "solid evidence" can be challenging to produce, highly traumatizing for the survivors, and opens them up to vicious blame-placing and attacks, which have already occurred on this thread (and were thankfully removed by the mods).

                          SafeSport got it right by confidentially handling these allegations to provide a layer of safety for the athletes involved.

                          I don't know how many times this has to be repeated, but SafeSport does not hand down the "permanently ineligible" sanction frequently or lightly-- it is reserved for the most serious of allegations. As of July, only 292 "permanently ineligible" sanctions had been handed down across all sports, out of thousands of reports. At that time, only 18 of them were equestrian.
                          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mardi View Post

                            RD is definitely not naive. He knows exactly where the skeletons are buried, and the politics involved.
                            Politics as related to USEF, USET and personal.
                            Hes a gross person imo
                            Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                              Tell that to the Boy Scouts.
                              Wait. What? That doesn't even make any sense.

                              The Boy Scouts has a code of conduct that adult volunteers must abide by. If they don't, they are removed from the organization, i.e. banned from any direct involvement with the private organization. Exactly like violations of Safe Sport rules can get an equestrian professional banned from any direct involvement with USEF. It's the same thing.
                              "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                              that's even remotely true."

                              Homer Simpson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Midge View Post

                                I find it interesting that this article states the violation was '68 to '72, when it appears only Morris's statement said that.
                                That article also is a bit disingenuous in minimizing the conduct of Jimmy Williams with respect to Anne Kursinski and failing to mention the number of other accusers.
                                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                                  I agree with you 100 %. Great post!
                                  Well then you agree with a lot of misinformation.

                                  For example, Tiramit says:

                                  Since I'm not part of the investigation process and privy to the case's details, I'll wait until the final verdict before issuing a personal ruling.
                                  and

                                  I'd hate for this claim to be true, but there's a chance it is. Hopefully we'll be given a clear answer at some point.
                                  The final verdict is IN. We have gotten a "clear answer." SafeSport conducted an investigation, in which the respondent, claimant, and witnesses were involved, and found that there was enough evidence for George Morris to deserve a permanently ineligible sanction. It is currently open to appeal, but SafeSport gave us their answer based on their comprehensive investigation process.
                                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Tiramit View Post
                                    A recurring theme within the global GM discussion that stands out in flashing marquee lights is the "we all knew about it" comments. The "whispers" and "open rumors" and "not-so-secret secret" comments.

                                    Let's let that sink in for a moment. An entire community (and its periphery) gossiped about it. For DECADES. An entire community that did nothing to confirm the rumors and, if they were true, help the victims and prevent future victims.

                                    If Nassar hadn't been caught and Congress hadn't created SafeSport, would the riding community still be snickering about GM over beers or exchanging knowing glances across the aisle? Probably.

                                    I'm not going to come out all guns a-blazing against GM at this stage. It's not from a lack of knowledge about SS or because I don't believe he could have done it. I've read the SS process and understand they've determined there's a reason to investigate the claim. I also understand that he is in the appeal process and that there is a chance the ruling could be overturned.

                                    Since I'm not part of the investigation process and privy to the case's details, I'll wait until the final verdict before issuing a personal ruling.

                                    What I do know is that I've ridden with the man multiple times. He's tough, yes. He sometimes makes harsh comments and can bully people who aren't all-in and trying. He can also issue amazing praise and support. The results of his work have been proven. He's very good at his job. That hasn't stopped me with associating him with tough military generals in my mind.

                                    I'd hate for this claim to be true, but there's a chance it is. Hopefully we'll be given a clear answer at some point.
                                    We’re not at the stage that SafeSport has determined that “there’s a reason to investigate the claim”. The SafeSport investigation has been done, and SafeSport has determined that the violations warrant a lifetime ban.

                                    GM can, and apparently will, appeal the SafeSport decision.

                                    Comment


                                    • Off topic, but I'm reading a book about society in the very South of France in the very early part of the 14th century, and one section discusses homosexuality in the Catholic priesthood. The author makes it sound as if boys in Catholic institutions were groomed and trained to be homosexual from as early as the age of five; this is based on witness testimony records. 800 years ago in that area at least, the Church was not only a haven for homosexuals, but its monasteries and schools were places where young, even very young boys, were not only molested but got training that lasted for their whole lives in that environment.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by skydy View Post

                                        I remember the incident, just didn't remember the name. Where the hell was USEF?
                                        It took Safe Sport to ban him.

                                        Whomever said that we can't be relied upon to police ourselves was certainly right.
                                        I believe USEF did suspend him after he was convicted of those charges.

                                        Comment


                                        • I just want to jump in and say I appreciate EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this thread who has continued to push back hard against the carefully crafter or campaign, bizarre outcry on Facebook, and astonishing amount of misinformation that gets spread each time a new name gets a permanent lifetime ban and put on the Safe Sport list.

                                          After the Rob Gage thread... and subsequent unfolding of that situation and revelation that it was NOT just about one girl with a grudge from 35 years ago who he dated when she was 17.... how in the world do these people continue on with the misinformation campaign?!?!

                                          I pray the NYT reporter does a solid job on this, and puts out something that honors and tells the victims side of this matter. Morris wouldn’t have been banned if it wasn’t AWFUL.

                                          Please folks... read the RG thread, watch “At the Heart of Gold” and check out the Outside the Lines report from ESPN on Conrad Mainwaring. Read about Ashley Wagner’s story. Go back and read the NYT article from last year about Jimmy Williams.

                                          I am going to spend today with my kids engaging in a couple different activities. And remembering that sports are about good health and developing character and resilience, and children are precious. I am so grateful to the people who came forward and are creating a different future for young people. Enough is enough. Stop focusing on the past and sucking up to power... have a soul and care about the future, and be a positive part of the change you want to see happen.

                                          Comment

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