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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by Toblersmom View Post
    Once upon a time when I was looking into this whole mess I found guidelines that had been formulated by SafeSport regarding sanctions/punishments. I can’t find it again but it said something to the effect of “The highest sanction of a lifetime ban should be reserved for those cases where:” Followed by a bullet-point list that I don’t recall in any detail. Does anyone know where that is? I don’t want to misquote any details but it made it pretty darn clear that a lifetime ban wouldn’t be handed out for things like giving kids unnecessarily lengthy pats on the tushy to “check position,” one-off offenses decades ago, clearly consensual May-December flirtations, etc.
    All the posts about people fearing being sanctioned for hugging a child after falling, or in congratulations, were just hysteria. Probably fake hysteria.

    Someone pointed out that in the televised national US gymnastics championships, coaches were giving the athletes hugs almost every time they finished a routine.

    On national TV. In gymnastics.

    Comment


    • From what it says on their site, IEA is making SS mandatory from the top-down/inside-outside, starting in the organization and leadership this season and then to the members themselves next season, which covers 2019-2020.
      Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

      Comment


      • Orginally posted by Poody

        you surely were not hanging at Studio 54 or many of the other interesting private clubs and all the drugs and drinking going on.
        I really don't much care what GM was doing at Studio 54 or anywhere else in his spare time (if he had any) as long as he wasn't doing it with minors.

        Although if that had been one of my horses he was riding when his groom had to pour him into the saddle and point him in the direction of the first jump, I probably would have had words to say.

        Comment


        • The Plaidcast posted a great interview with Sarah Nir. It starts at 31:32. It breaks down a lot of the reaction to the ban and the article, and dispels a lot of mistruths being spouted. Someone should share with those who are crying foul and bashing SS, the Times, and the survivors.

          https://www.theplaidhorse.com/2019/0...ter-sarah-nir/

          Comment


          • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

            I vaguely remember that IEA was incorporating SafeSport perhaps starting this fall or something- that is, IEA will be subject to SafeSport going forward but possibly the implementation date was a year or two after USEF. No university is going to want the legal exposure that would come with having a SafeSport banned individual be a coach.
            Just an FYI, IEA stands for Interscholastic Equestrian Association, and pertains to middle and high schoolers, not university and college teams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

              All the posts about people fearing being sanctioned for hugging a child after falling, or in congratulations, were just hysteria. Probably fake hysteria.

              Someone pointed out that in the televised national US gymnastics championships, coaches were giving the athletes hugs almost every time they finished a routine.

              On national TV. In gymnastics.
              For the people in the back.
              *****
              You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

              Comment


              • Anybody that's afraid of a SS investigation is doing something wrong. If you're not inappropriate, you have nothing to worry about.

                Comment


                • originally posted by erinmeri and thanks for posting!

                  The Plaidcast posted a great interview with Sarah Nir. It starts at 31:32. It breaks down a lot of the reaction to the ban and the article, and dispels a lot of mistruths being spouted. Someone should share with those who are crying foul and bashing SS, the Times, and the survivors.

                  https://www.theplaidhorse.com/2019/0...ter-sarah-nir/
                  Wow - great interview. She states that there were multiple people who spoke to her, but only 1 who was willing to speak on record, because he was already banned and had nothing to lose, presumably Jonathan Sinesi. The rest were afraid to be quoted for fear of reprisal,

                  So much for the "there was only 1 victim and that was 50 years ago" story.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

                    I vaguely remember that IEA was incorporating SafeSport perhaps starting this fall or something- that is, IEA will be subject to SafeSport going forward but possibly the implementation date was a year or two after USEF. No university is going to want the legal exposure that would come with having a SafeSport banned individual be a coach.
                    See post #2382.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Toblersmom View Post
                      Once upon a time when I was looking into this whole mess I found guidelines that had been formulated by SafeSport regarding sanctions/punishments. I can’t find it again but it said something to the effect of “The highest sanction of a lifetime ban should be reserved for those cases where:” Followed by a bullet-point list that I don’t recall in any detail. Does anyone know where that is? I don’t want to misquote any details but it made it pretty darn clear that a lifetime ban wouldn’t be handed out for things like giving kids unnecessarily lengthy pats on the tushy to “check position,” one-off offenses decades ago, clearly consensual May-December flirtations, etc.
                      I can't find it either, but I recall seeing something similar. The closest I can find in in this FAQ which says, in part,
                      "What are the criteria for banning someone for life? Can you be sanctioned for something that’s not illegal?

                      It’s possible a respondent could not have been convicted, but if we find by a preponderance of the evidence that the respondent has done something to a child they would be banned for life. If I were to harass you, for example, that’s technically illegal, but the chances of a District Attorney taking a case like that is really low. For example, if two 19-year-olds go on a trip to an equestrian competition, and they’re drinking, and one is harassing the other, no DA in United States will take that case, but we would, and we’d look into it. If we determined harm had happened, someone could be put on the sanctioned list.

                      As far as banning for life, any instance of sexual assault, anything against children, or if you’re on the sex offender registry you’re out. It can be a bit confusing because for example we had a case where someone ended up on the registry because of a clerical error, and that person had to get it fixed. We’ll still look into whether something happened that warrants sanctions.

                      Also, there are situations when something was adjudicated by the sport before the Center existed. If it was properly adjudicated we have to be careful about re-doing any decisions that were already made."

                      But that's not a bullet list and I remember one too.
                      The Evil Chem Prof

                      Comment


                      • In other news, Kathy Hobstetter has posted a Safe Sport Overhaul GoFundMe, the intro to which states:
                        Committed to a FAIR SPORT judgement process for athletes. Due process (FAIR PROCESS) for both abused and abuser is the American way. Pursuing a change in the Safe Sport Center system as it stands now that puts all athletes at risk.

                        Change takes time and change takes money especially when the US Government is in charge of a flawed FAIR PROCESS system for athletes of all ages and levels!!

                        The purpose is simply for awareness and securing transparency in SS. The only way to get it is knocking on doors of politicians and sending letters etc. No one is trying to stop SS, which we feel is needed, but simply work at bettering the rules at play and secure more fairness.
                        The Evil Chem Prof

                        Comment


                        • What exactly do they feel is unfair? Is that answered anywhere?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by roseymare View Post
                            What exactly do they feel is unfair? Is that answered anywhere?
                            No, but cynical me says that the unfair thing is that their friend(s) got caught.
                            The Evil Chem Prof

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                              In other news, Kathy Hobstetter has posted a Safe Sport Overhaul GoFundMe, the intro to which states:
                              Committed to a FAIR SPORT judgement process for athletes. Due process (FAIR PROCESS) for both abused and abuser is the American way. Pursuing a change in the Safe Sport Center system as it stands now that puts all athletes at risk.

                              Change takes time and change takes money especially when the US Government is in charge of a flawed FAIR PROCESS system for athletes of all ages and levels!!

                              The purpose is simply for awareness and securing transparency in SS. The only way to get it is knocking on doors of politicians and sending letters etc. No one is trying to stop SS, which we feel is needed, but simply work at bettering the rules at play and secure more fairness.
                              They need $25,000 to send letters? What would be a more fair process? Who is going to decide what that process should look like? SO many holes in this "overhaul" that I don't even know where to start. I think maybe I'll start with the image of a wall full of blue ribbons that's being used. If that's what they use to depict a supposed group to bring a better system of protecting our youth in the sport, that's pretty telling. Ignore the bad acts, focus on that blue ribbon.

                              Comment


                              • Has any other sport reacted in quite this way? I know some were in denial but this much?

                                I haven't listened to the Plaid Horse podcast with the NYT journalist but plan to do so tomorrow.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by roseymare View Post
                                  Has any other sport reacted in quite this way? I know some were in denial but this much?

                                  I haven't listened to the Plaid Horse podcast with the NYT journalist but plan to do so tomorrow.
                                  I was really impressed. As if I wasn't already impressed after reading her articles.
                                  The Evil Chem Prof

                                  Comment


                                  • Agreed. Definitely worth a listen. Long story short, it puts to rest that "one incident from 50 years ago" crap.

                                    Comment


                                    • Peggy, I'm not suggesting that you're in favor of this idea, but rather than contributing $$$ to some GoFundMe with nebulous goals, let me suggest that it would be better to actually think things through and write your congresspersons with concrete suggestions for an overhaul, but that's just my .02.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by AllisonWunderlund View Post

                                        IEA Region President here. This is correct. While the IEA cannot control what people advertise on their personal websites, it can control who can and cannot field a team. If a team is not approved by IEA, they will be unable to enter any IEA competitions. There are safeguards against that. Show hosts have to submit entries into the IEA website. A team that is not registered is unable to be entered. The system will not be able to find them.

                                        I do encourage anyone who suspects that a banned/suspended USEF member is running an IEA program using another person as the "official" coach to circumvent the SS requirement to report it to the IEA national office. I can assure you these reports will not be taken lightly.
                                        Thanks for this explanation!

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by dannyboy View Post
                                          Peggy, I'm not suggesting that you're in favor of this idea, but rather than contributing $$$ to some GoFundMe with nebulous goals, let me suggest that it would be better to actually think things through and write your congresspersons with concrete suggestions for an overhaul, but that's just my .02.
                                          Peggy didn’t write that. Kathy Hobstetter did. Peggy just shared it here.

                                          Comment

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